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-- Laws like this are ones that need to get passed:
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Originally posted by karim Lets take the latest McDonalds ad for example. A parody on political activism by showing a guy with a huge sign hanging off of him. To deliver a message, to make the world aware that he loves his sandwhich. The guy appears to be an average guy, but this sandwhich drove him nuts because it's "that good". Oh, and the best part is, he's not alone! Toying on the human desire for acceptance. It's full of subliminal messages like all ads these days, and it's got that uplifting soundtrack giving a sense of achievement, when no achievements are to be made. And then finally, the Buda Bap Baa baaa, I'm loving it, so catchy its a brainworm. Pretty dumb and trivial I know, but for many people, that puts them over the edge to go buy it. Another form of advertising that really caught my attention was Little Ceasers pizza. No longer do they put their money into TV ads, but they employ people to stand out on the streets with a sign that says "hot and ready! Medium Pepperoni Pizza $5". A living billboard. People drive by noticing this because they genuinely have pity for the board holder, but in the process, they remember what the sign says. In turn, the consumer thinks about pizza, and then it triggers the craving and desire for pizza where the consumer prolly would've driven by and ate at home. Now of course to act on the McDonalds or Little Ceasars marketing tactics and go out to buy their food IS infact a consumers decision, but food addiction is all too common, and these ads play on human desires for their products. The effort that these companies make to get the word out pollutes our public space with logos and billboards and makes our entire lives one big commercial. People should be able to make their own decisions, I just feel advertising shouldn't be the driving factor to make decisions for the weak minded. A genuine desire for a product unaided by psychological advertising tactics should be what gets people to buy them. I find people who buy into advertising too much to be handicapped, and when I point a finger at advertising, it's looking out for the mentally weak. Of course, the handicapped should be rehabilitated into knowing better, but sadly, that's only half the battle. Karim

Sideshow Bob says: "No, Selma, THIS is lying: That was a well-plotted piece of non-claptrap that never made me want to retch!"

You should be a social worker dude, pointing out every stupid decision in life as the result of some uncontrollable mental disability or handicap. Fickleness and ignorance are choices, not inevitabilities. As human beings we have something called free will, and if someone is too braindead to "resist" a McDonald's ad (and too lazy to exercise), then they deserve whatever physical illness comes to them as a result!

As for your "freedom" comments, I don't know what age group you were referring to when you made that post, but pre-teens should NEVER have that kind of freedom. I have several family members who grew up in Canada when laissez-faire was "in", and they say without any hesitation that they wish they hadn't been given that kind of freedom.

And as for allowances - they're great, but kids don't need their own incomes. I got $5 a week and the occasional gift (I think they might have upped it to $10 at one point, but it wasn't long after that I had to actually get a job), and I was perfectly fine and happy with that. I could spend it on fast food, or I could save for 6 weeks to buy a Nintendo game - not both. $5 is maybe a little pathetic in the 21st century, but if a kid is getting enough allowance money to eat fast food every day of the week, they're getting too much money.

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Originally posted by RobbyG. The point of the movie I think was how your body is affected by the lack of proper nutrition.Here was a guy (a Vegan) who was totally healthy & went on a month long Mcdee's diet with NO exercise & how it nearly killed him. I would really like to know if there are people who actually eat like that everyday.I bet you there are some out there who do OR come pretty damn close to having a lifestyle like that.

I doubt anyone is that extreme. I mean, this guy forced himself to finish EVERYTHING on his plate, to the point where he would sit there for 3 hours trying to finish and end up throwing up afterwards. Even fat slobs stop eating when they're full.

But you're right about the point of the movie - it was definitely more of an expos� on the effects of malnutrition and the importance of eating right than it was on the "evils" of fast food.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 hahahahahahahahha all i can do is laugh at the above comments. People holding signs drive people into little ceaser's because they feel sorry for them? HAHAHAHAHAHHAH Oh man.... dude you have too much time on your hands. Let me let you in on a little secret. I stand outside of our quiznos all the time holding up a sign that says MMMM TOASTY. Is it to make people feel sorry for me? NOPE. Its to get around the archaic sign bylaws that people like you have placed on people like me. Its to get the store noticed by people who might be hungry and may want to stop in for some food. People who otherwise probably wouldnt even see our store. Oh and if they feel sorry for me they shouldnt because im making money (good money at that). Oh yeah and as for the commercials. A bunch of guys walking with placards is subliminal advertising? LOL If thats subliminal than people aren't very wide awake.

I have too much time on my hands? Since when do open discussions become personal? Just cause I like to observe and analyze things, and even read up on topics like this makes it enough to label me as having too much free time? Forgive me for taking psych in uni and finding an interest in it.

The sign bylaws may be the reasoning for YOU to hold a sign for the store you work at, but it's ironic that right next to the little ceasars stores that I always see (and I've seen this in Hamilton, Burlington, Barrie, all over the place) the convenience stores and what not have those big neon signs right on the curb advertising their prices for cigarettes, milk, eggs, whatever. No people required to hold the sign. Trust me, most people I've talked to about the people holding signs express how much it must suck to stand out in the cold/rain/whatever and prolly get paid a shitty wage at that, but everyone seemingly knows about the sign holders because it is something that captures everyones attention. I was in a car full of my friends when we saw a little ceasars sign holder and the entire car burst out laughing going "damn, that jobs gotta suck". But hey, if people consider that a good job that "pays well", more power to them.

And to laugh at the idea of subliminal advertising in ads is ludicrous. There's tons of evidence, research, and studies proving my point on subliminal messages in advertising. It's not the placards alone that are subliminal, it's the music, the fact that there are other guys like him wandering the streets, and that he's always got a sandwhich in his hand, to name a few. Those are the subliminal messages. A simple google search will return plenty of results.

And the movie Super Size Me also exposed LIES in MARKETING of these fast food chains. The one that stands out the most is the fact that their yoghurt in their lighter choices menu was infact more caloric that a small icecream sundae, yet the way they advertise it as being a "lighter choice" is very decieving. Whatever helps sell the product right?

As for the childhood allowances, you guys are getting me wrong. I never said we got enough to eat fast food daily. We got maybe $10 a week. Personally, my parents monitored my spending and were actually glad that I was one to put away, save and place goals on how to manage my money rather than spend it on candy, slurpees, and fast food like some of my peers.

It's too easy to get caught up in the "convenient" world, and too many people fall into it. I'm just saying ADVERTISING makes it easier, and there wouldn't be nearly as many people engaged in it if it weren't for advertising.

Ironically, I at one point wanted to get into the field of advertising. I thought it'd be fun to make commercials and create ad campaigns for a living. Hell, my best friend is working on getting into advertising. I'm not 100% against it, I just think that lately, there's an overkill in it.


Karim

It doesnt suck that much at all because its fresh air and most people actually wave. Some people (mostly 16 year old kids) laugh but whatever. If thats enough to ruin your life then so be it. And yes it DOES pay well when it brings customers into OUR store. Whats the point of opening if no one comes in? As for the sign bylaws. Oakville is especially bad because they think that having a small sign on the front window of a business is worse than having no business there at all. You see, businesses need exposure. Even the cure for cancer would be useless if we didnt have a way to tell people about it.

As for subliminal. If you are talking about product placement and visuals and sound well of course these are used. Its the same thing that is used when a producer of a movie wants to spark fear during a suspense moment for example. Just because i see something on tv no matter how well produced doesnt make me run out and get it.

If i see an ad for mcdonalds it makes me aware of the product. If im hungry later on i may think of mcdonalds because of the ad but unless i truely want mcdonalds im not going to eat there.

If people are so pathetic that a commercial autmatically makes them want something that they dont like then thats pathetic.

I took psych too and a lot of the stuff they taught made my eyes roll. Actually psych usually taught the real science. Most of the junk science and political bias was in sociology.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Bottom line, retailers offer a service and advertisers present it to the public. If you are too weak to use your own judgement than thats your own damned fault, not the retailers'. Its called TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS. It's also called PARENTING. The world's ills are not ALWAYS someone else's fault.

Spot on.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 If people are so pathetic that a commercial autmatically makes them want something that they dont like then thats pathetic.

The problem is, McDonalds tastes good and too many people like it. Advertising is virutally telling people "it's ok, we know you like it, endulge, everything will be just fine, just like it is for the fit people in the commercials that eat our food with a big smile across their faces."

And guess what? TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE PATHETIC and fall for it and go out and buy something that is not good for them living the illusion that they'll be fine if they keep eating it when infact, they won't. They'll be on the road to heart disease and what not but the commercials fail to mention that, especially the lighter choices mcdonalds yoghurt commercial.

Don't end advertising I say, keep it in good taste, and not when referring to big macs.


Karim

Ok so lets get this straight.

You believe that

- mcdonalds should taste like shit because you think it's toxic and hazardous

- advertisers should think of every single thing that can go wrong if you abuse their product and should post it everytime they advertise. (WARNING USING HAMMER COULD RESULT IN BROKEN FINGERS)

- advertisers should also refrain from encouraging people to use their product

- Holding signs up in the street is a form of subliminal advertising

- Most people are pathetic and cannot think for themselves and therefore should be protected from everything other than granola and water

- everything is always someone else's fault

Did i forget anything?

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Originally posted by karim You are absolutely right, people should think for themselves, but sadly children are often easily manipulated, and like swilly said, parents have a hard time competing with advertising. No amount of proper parenting can be immune to the multi billion dollar marketing machine that these corporations push on us. Did you know that the average 6 year old in the USA, recognizes Joe Camel of Camel Cigarettes just as much as they recognize Mickey Mouse? (Source, found in the quiz) It seems like being tuned in, is being tuned out mentally these days, and having decisions made for you by corporate brainwashing. Karim

IMHO I feel Twilly and Karim have made some valid points...

Firstly, being a parent isn't always planned (so it's illogical to say that a person has no business being a parent if you can't control your kids)and fast food is unfortunately the only choice a parent has when there is little time to make dinner. Sometimes our fast paced city lifestyle obligates both parent to work (to make ends meet) and to cut corners when it comes to cooking. Especially if the parent has to contribute their free time for thier childs extra curricular activities after school.
It's not as if we all have nannies, cooks and maids to make things easy on us.

Secondly an over controlling parent will guarantee a bad parent child relationship. All parents can do today is teach them the difference between good and bad, then hope for the best from that child. Even if you teach the child that fast food is bad, it still does not stop them from wanting the food and with the bombarding of commercials and advertising (not including the friends that entice you to take that trip to Micky D), it does not make it easy on the parent either. I'm sure all mommies and daddies have said no booze or drugs....so you be the judge...does the average clubber do what the parents tell them not to do?

Thirdly, in "Super Size Me" I think the point was not just about the fast food being bad....but also about the unhealthy additives in processed food...and how fast our bodies can be affected by poor eating habits. It's no wonder that North America (Canada included) suffers so much from Diabetis...practically every food contains sugar as a preservative. Is sugar necessary in our diets.....NO! Now just think of how many preservatives there are in say a McDonald's salad....do you seriously think that there aren't any (anyone who's tried keeping a salad with cold cuts/meats/hard boiled eggs etc, fresh looking in their fridge till next day can tell you that it's virtually impossible....unless it came from a fast food)? And do you actually believe that a corporation is doing business in the best interest of the public....No! They are there to make money. So before saying that parent should be "TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS" then it should also be said that Corporation should also take responsibility for their actions too.

IMO....this law was put in b/c lobbyists did their job well. Is it good....maybe...maybe it will make parents more cautious and educated about the health of their child. Was it the best solution....I don't think so. I believe a child should also get truthful and honest food education in schools, so that he/she can make good and healthy food choices in life. Till that happens, then the problem of a corporations self interest will continue at the cost of a childs health.
Besides, how is it possible that anyone can hold a parent responsible for everything their child does wrong. That kind of a mindset can only come from a person that is not mature and has never been responsible for anyone but themselves in their life.

So now its not just corperations but also society's fault for bad parenting and fast food cravings?

COME ON!

listen to yourselves.

The solution is simple. If you dont like it dont buy it. Mcdonalds exists for a reason. It's because people like to eat it. If people didnt like to eat it they would close. In fact mcdonalds has actually contracted in the last 2 years for the first time ever because people are turning to healthier choices. (so much for the conspiracy theories eh?)

If you dont like something DONT BUY IT/EAT IT/SMOKE IT/FUCK IT/WATCH IT/LISTEN TO IT... quite simple.

The most powerful voting ballots you will ever own has the picture of the queen on it and a bunch of dead prime ministers on them.

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Originally posted by RobbyG. The point of the movie I think was how your body is affected by the lack of proper nutrition.Here was a guy (a Vegan) who was totally healthy & went on a month long Mcdee's diet with NO exercise & how it nearly killed him. I would really like to know if there are people who actually eat like that everyday.I bet you there are some out there who do OR come pretty damn close to having a lifestyle like that.

There are, that was the point... and you know what? It's their own damn fault. They SHOULD be out excersizing, they SHOULDN'T be eating McDonalds every day. It's common sense, and they teach us from the age of 6 that McDonalds is bad for you, there's no excuse!

You keep mentioning people's inability to control their spending/eating/whatever... guess what? That's their own damn fault too, those kids you mentioned wasting their money on McDonalds, you know why they could do that? Because they probably went home crying at the end of the day for that Nintendo game they wanted, and their parents probably caved in EVERY time and bought that game because their "poor kid" already spent their money. Oh yeah, we're also taught that advertising tries to trick us into buying their products, in high school english, they teach us the types of tricks used. So guess what... there's NO excuse!

Little Ceasar's having people walk around with signs isn't a subliminal message, it's a desperate attempt to pick up Business since LC corperate sold off their franchises and got out of the business. With no money for proper advertising, LC has been losing business. I know this for a fact, I worked for LC and rather than sit on my ass making my 6.85 an hour, I talked to the GM and owner of my store about the problems. I also talk to my current GM about what's happening in the Pizza Business, and he's mentioned Little Ceasar's problems many times. Little Ceasar's is a very minor (and dying) player in the pizza market. Usually, when you see people walking around with signs, it's an indication that the business isn't doing so well.

au contrare. We are doing quite well but i honestly dont mind being outside with the sign because it usually drives immediate business up 20%. Plus it gets me some fresh air. Id much rather be doing that then be stuck inside all day but thats just me.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 So now its not just corperations but also society's fault for bad parenting and fast food cravings?

Hey, hey....don't go changing the words. It isn't about fault...it's about responsibility.
Everyone is responsible indirectly. If you run a company and they are purchasing meat from a non-reputable source and that meat has not properly been inspected, then you are indirectly responsible for harming the public b/c you sell that meat.

In law there is a system called chain of command. A person cannot sue another, unless he follows the chain. He'd have to sue you, in order to justify going after the bigger problem. Even then he has only two options....civil litigation and criminal/govt. regulation. When lobbyiest put in blocks, that cuts the chain of command and limits liability for the onus of responsibility to corporation. When that happens, then basically the corporation is also limiting and controlling regulations put in to protect each and everyones rights.

It's not always about buyer beware. Not everyone knows how to deal with everything that happens in their life. That's why regulations were put in place...as a way to measure and protect individuals.

Society is not directly responsible....but it is indirectly. It's our tax paying dollars that go towards the education of a child. When funding cuts are made, then that limits the education and stumps the childs development and his ability to understand essentials. It's a vicious cycle then gets repeated through generations....which eventually down spiral our family values and the preservation of a good quality of life.

Ok fine. If mcdonalds knowingly sold bad meat (bad being poison or infected with bacteria) then there is just cause. But suing a company because someone ate there everyday and got fat?

Give me a break.

I think I'm gonna go get me some McDonald's right now! Mmmm, multiple quarter pounders... however, I think I will pass on the protein platter (AKA double-priced hamburger without bread).


And as for this whole debate, the courts used to have a saying that really nailed the issue down:

Let the buyer beware!

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Originally posted by b4k-oz IMHO I feel Twilly and Karim have made some valid points... Firstly, being a parent isn't always planned (so it's illogical to say that a person has no business being a parent if you can't control your kids)and fast food is unfortunately the only choice a parent has when there is little time to make dinner. Sometimes our fast paced city lifestyle obligates both parent to work (to make ends meet) and to cut corners when it comes to cooking. Especially if the parent has to contribute their free time for thier childs extra curricular activities after school. It's not as if we all have nannies, cooks and maids to make things easy on us.

First, lets deal with your "unplanned" parenting. You know what people should do when they don't want kids? I do, and it's 100% effective. Here it is, it's a little "out there" so please bear with me... DON'T HAVE SEX! There, you've been enlightened. There's NO excuse.

Ok, on to your 'lack of time' argument. Maybe these people should be cutting things out of their schedule if they don't have 30 minutes to make dinner. Working for 8 hours a day is no excuse not to eat properly, what's wrong with the other 16 hours of the day? Maybe parents should't be letting their kids take piano lessons on monday, horseback riding on tuesday, soccer on wednesday, swimming lessons on thursday, and karate on friday. My parents were always pretty smart... when they made dinner one night, they'd prepare things that could be re-heated for the next day, it's called 'using your time wisely', which is a lost art these days. I'm not perfect either, I eat fast-food daily, I love it, it's very convenient, and when I have diabetes and high cholesterol, I know who to blame (here's a hint: it isn't McDonalds). There's a book that's been written called "The art of Slow" or something like that, you should give it a read. It's about how people try to do too much these days, then blame their problems on lack of time. Then is explains how to fix the problem. I wouldn't have enough time in my day either if I was taking piano/swimming/horseback riding/karate/math tutoring etc. etc. etc.

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Secondly an over controlling parent will guarantee a bad parent child relationship. All parents can do today is teach them the difference between good and bad, then hope for the best from that child. Even if you teach the child that fast food is bad, it still does not stop them from wanting the food and with the bombarding of commercials and advertising (not including the friends that entice you to take that trip to Micky D), it does not make it easy on the parent either. I'm sure all mommies and daddies have said no booze or drugs....so you be the judge...does the average clubber do what the parents tell them not to do?

Now telling your kids they can't have McDonalds is "over controlling"?! HOLY SHIT! My parents gave me 5 bucks a week and said "Too bad" if I wanted that Nintendo game, and I'd wasted all my money on candy. And whenever I think back on it I think "Man, they taught me some valuable life lessons on money management." And so what if your kid wants McDonalds? That doesn't mean you have to run out and buy it for them, you'd be amazed at how well "You aren't eating til you finish your brocolli" works on kids, eventually, they always eat that brocolli... unless the parents are wimps. My mom and dad taught me to be a responsible drinker, and I respected that they could accept my decision to drink, but were still able to coach me to do it responsibly. I come from a christian home, they didn't tell me "Don't have sex" (although they said they'd be extremely proud of me if I made the decision to hold off til I'm married), they taught me to respect females and made sure I understood all the risks involved with sex, they didn't just leave it to the schools to do their job, they did it THEMSELVES! And I took those lessons, and committed them to my decision-making for the rest of my life. But I guess in your world, they were being over-controlling.

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Thirdly, in "Super Size Me" I think the point was not just about the fast food being bad....but also about the unhealthy additives in processed food...and how fast our bodies can be affected by poor eating habits. It's no wonder that North America (Canada included) suffers so much from Diabetis...practically every food contains sugar as a preservative. Is sugar necessary in our diets.....NO! Now just think of how many preservatives there are in say a McDonald's salad....do you seriously think that there aren't any (anyone who's tried keeping a salad with cold cuts/meats/hard boiled eggs etc, fresh looking in their fridge till next day can tell you that it's virtually impossible....unless it came from a fast food)? And do you actually believe that a corporation is doing business in the best interest of the public....No! They are there to make money. So before saying that parent should be "TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS" then it should also be said that Corporation should also take responsibility for their actions too.

Dude, it's common knowledge that Fast-Food is horrible for you, it's common knowledge that excersize is a necessity to good health, it's common knowledge that corperations will say and do ANYTHING they are allowed to do, to try and make you buy their product. We are taught all these things, there's NO excuse for your own poor judgement.

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IMO....this law was put in b/c lobbyists did their job well. Is it good....maybe...maybe it will make parents more cautious and educated about the health of their child. Was it the best solution....I don't think so. I believe a child should also get truthful and honest food education in schools, so that he/she can make good and healthy food choices in life. Till that happens, then the problem of a corporations self interest will continue at the cost of a childs health.

They DO get truthful and honest food education in schools. I was taught that we shouldn't eat Fast Food because it can kill me. That was truthful and honest... what did they teach YOU? On top of that, a parent should never provide their child with enough personal income that they could cause serious damage to their bodies when the parent isn't around, they the parent is doing that, they are not a good parent, and it's THEIR fault their kid is dying, not the corperation's.

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Besides, how is it possible that anyone can hold a parent responsible for everything their child does wrong. That kind of a mindset can only come from a person that is not mature and has never been responsible for anyone but themselves in their life.

It's not about holding the parent responsible for everything their child does wrong. It's about the parent not providing the child with the means to carry those decisions out. If a parent finds an Eminem cd in their 12 year-old's room, and feels that it is no good for their kid, they should be removing that CD from the child's possession. If a parent finds out their child is eating McDonalds every day with their allowance, they should be lowering the ammount they give to that child. If a parent finds out their child is smoking, they should be looking around their kid's room and knapsack, and getting rid of those cigarette's the kid loves so much, also, making sure that the money their kid is getting for allowance isn't paying for the habit, teach that kid "Hey, if you want to kill yourself, you use YOUR money, not mine, get a job. Until you quit, no more allowance." I had an allowance, then I dropped out of school. My parents said "hey, you're not in school, get a job, we aren't paying to let you live in our house and do nothing with your life, while you're at it, when you DO get a job, you get to pay 40 bucks a week to live with us and eat our food." I've learned more about personal finance in the last year than I ever did while getting 25 bucks a week for being a "good kid".

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Originally posted by Jayx1 au contrare. We are doing quite well but i honestly dont mind being outside with the sign because it usually drives immediate business up 20%. Plus it gets me some fresh air. Id much rather be doing that then be stuck inside all day but thats just me.

I loved dancing around with the signs too, it was easier and much less stressful than making pizza and dealing with customers You'll also note that I said it's USUALLY an indication of poor business, not always. And in LC's specific case, it's exactly that.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Ok fine. If mcdonalds knowingly sold bad meat (bad being poison or infected with bacteria) then there is just cause. But suing a company because someone ate there everyday and got fat? Give me a break.

I think your missing my point....about chain of command

it's not about blaming for becoming fat...its to take chain of command and go after the real culprits of unnecessary or harmful food additives.
Haven't you ever stopped to ask why a burger at McDonalds is cheaper than a fresh salad.
Think of the harmful additives in vegetable and of the harmful preservative in meat. Which is the better of the two evils. How would a child know about preservatives. It's not as if they are taught about this in school (especially not with so much cut backs).

All that McDonald's (the corporation) is concerned about is budgets, costs and good year ends. So basically they will favour buying a ready made salad mix from the cheapest supplier without having access to information about where that supplier got the salad from...which could be from some 3rd world country using child workers and below standards regulations...which gets imported easily because of relaxed regulations manipulated by lobbyists working for other corps that have a financial self interest. In the end....the public looses....value and standards of life...which is our inherent right.

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Originally posted by b4k-oz I think your missing my point....about chain of command it's not about blaming for becoming fat...its to take chain of command and go after the real culprits of unnecessary or harmful food additives. Haven't you ever stopped to ask why a burger at McDonalds is cheaper than a fresh salad. Think of the harmful additives in vegetable and of the harmful preservative in meat. Which is the better of the two evils. How would a child know about preservatives. It's not as if they are taught about this in school (especially not with so much cut backs). All that McDonald's (the corporation) is concerned about is budgets, costs and good year ends. So basically they will favour buying a ready made salad mix from the cheapest supplier without having access to information about where that supplier got the salad from...which could be from some 3rd world country using child workers and below standards regulations...which gets imported easily because of relaxed regulations manipulated by lobbyists working for other corps that have a financial self interest. In the end....the public looses....value and standards of life...which is our inherent right.

I think a hamburger is cheaper than a salad because half and ounce of meat, a quarter ounce of lettuce, a slice of tomatoe, a squirt of ketchup and mayo, and a 5 cent bun costs the business less than 8 ounces of lettuce, 4 chunks of tomatoe and cucumber, 3-4 containers of dressing and a dash of parmesian cheese.

Oh I forgot one thing, someone made a comment like "does the average clubber do what their parents tell them not to do?" Pre-teens don't go clubbing. The average 12-year-old doesn't really have the option to do what their parents tell them not to do - how do you propose they would do it, unless their parents are (irresponsibly) giving them an assload of disposable income and not digging into how it gets spent?

Once kids hit clubbing age, they're perfectly capable of forming good eating habits if their parents have brought them up on good eating habits. It's not even an excuse if their parents never taught them to cook, because by age 14 you can take a friggin' night school course on it.

There's no "relaxed regulations" on the fast food business. The regulations are exactly as they should be - no contaminants, no parasites, no rotten food, no rats in the kitchen. McDonald's has some food that's not that unhealthy, it's just that most people don't eat it! If all restaurants were required to serve ONLY "healthy" food then they'd pretty much all instantly go out of business.

buying food from third world countries is a good thing. Why? Because even if the farmer makes 1/3 of what they make here its comparing apples to oranges. WHY? because perhaps that farmer's cost of living down there is 1/3 of what it is here? I always shudder when people compare countries using solely income and exchange rates. I was able to earn 1500 pesos a month and pay 150 for rent on an apartment twice the size of the one i pay 800 for in canada. Work that 1500 out into US dollars and i was making $500US a month. Shit money for here but amazing to live on in argentina.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Oh I forgot one thing, someone made a comment like "does the average clubber do what their parents tell them not to do?" ... There's no "relaxed regulations" on the fast food business. The regulations are exactly as they should be - no contaminants, no parasites, no rotten food, no rats in the kitchen. McDonald's has some food that's not that unhealthy, it's just that most people don't eat it! If all restaurants were required to serve ONLY "healthy" food then they'd pretty much all instantly go out of business.

Firstly some clubbers (regardless of what the parents say) can get caught up in the moment and the crowd....they get drunk or do drugs....it's life. The same applies with kids and fast food....parents and schools set rules....kids breakem...it's how it is.
If anyone thinks it's different, then nothing I say...will convince or prepare you for what awaits you later on...when you have kids.

If you think that there are no relaxed regulations...then your wrong. Many precedent cases contradict your view. Why do you think the colour system was put in for restaurants. Have you ever really bothered to look into why some of the dt chinese restaurants were shut down. Yes for contaminants. Yes for rotten food. Yes to rats and pets in the kitchen. Yes to roaches in your meals. Yes to hairs in your food.

RE: I think a hamburger is cheaper than a salad because half and ounce of meat, a quarter ounce of lettuce, a slice of tomatoe, a squirt of ketchup and mayo, and a 5 cent bun costs the business less than 8 ounces of lettuce, 4 chunks of tomatoe and cucumber, 3-4 containers of dressing and a dash of parmesian cheese.

Why is that..hmmmmmmmmmmm? Why would fresh food grown from the grown, picked and washed and served in a container cost more than a piece of meat that is chopped and processed in a factory then spiced up and packaged by a supplier and then put on to a sugar coated bun with ketchup & Mayo (also laced in sugar) and a few sprigs of the same vegetables in a salad? Why is it so hard for you to see the obvious common sense logic that the salad should cost less. How much do you pay for meat when you do your groceries vs. buying lettuce an tomatoe and a cucumber? Do you really feel that confident as to profess a great education from your parents and school, yet you can't see this one?

Not everyone lives as priviledged a life as you do. Some don't even have 2 parents or get an allowance. Many live below poverty. Are you saying you have no respect for them? Are you saying that if they are stupid to buy into bad food then they deserve it.
As a consumer.....would you want to spend more on something that has a somewhat good taste and is healthy vs. spending less on something that just tastes good? How can you think a child would know the difference. Your not making any sense.

Recently I was invited to a focus group about fast food. I actually sat across from a high income well educated earner who thought that there is no carbs in vegetable such as mashed potatoes, broccoli or cauliflower. That same person thought that Kentucky Fried Chicken was health food. After witnessing that display of education....I can't help but feel concerned for the education and manipulation of kids by self interest corporations.
Do you even understand the legality of why the expression buyer beware is used?

You're missing the point. The point is there's a LOT more food in a salad than there is in a hamburger, 4 chunks of tomatoe could be an entire tomatoe, as opposed to the 1/10th of a tomatoe they put on a hamburger. That lettuce in a salad could be as much as half a head of lettuce, much more lettuce than than couple of leaves they throw onto a hamburger. Those 4 containers of dressing cost a lot more than a squirt of ketchup and mayonaisse. The 5 cent bun costs a lot less than the 4 slices of cucumber on that salad. And I haven't even listed everything they put on some of those salads. Also the container they put the salad in is more expensive, plastic containers cost more than paper bags or tiny cardboard boxes. It also takes longer to make a salad, which means a higher labour cost than the 15 seconds it takes to make a hamburger.

I also want to add that those poverty people are idiots if they're buying fast food for 6-7 bucks a meal rather than buying some kraft dinner, a loaf of bread and drinking tap water for 2-3 dollars a day. It takes effort to live comfortably.

Also, education =/= intelligence. Most school-work is redundant, easy, and you simply have to do it to earn a good mark. This includes much university and college work that I've seen. Many people have a higher education and well-paying jobs simply because they could buy them, not because they actually earned their degree. The people who deserve some REAL respect are the ones who started their own business and succeeded in making a living while doing so, that takes REAL intelligence, problem solving skills and creativity. Not writing "School is good" 50 times on a piece of paper and handing it in.

quote:

Originally posted by b4k-oz Firstly some clubbers (regardless of what the parents say) can get caught up in the moment and the crowd....they get drunk or do drugs....it's life. The same applies with kids and fast food....parents and schools set rules....kids breakem...it's how it is. If anyone thinks it's different, then nothing I say...will convince or prepare you for what awaits you later on...when you have kids.

You're missing the point. A 19-year-old has enough independence to break the rules; a 12-year-old doesn't unless his parents are irresponsible.

quote:

If you think that there are no relaxed regulations...then your wrong. Many precedent cases contradict your view. Why do you think the colour system was put in for restaurants. Have you ever really bothered to look into why some of the dt chinese restaurants were shut down. Yes for contaminants. Yes for rotten food. Yes to rats and pets in the kitchen. Yes to roaches in your meals. Yes to hairs in your food.

Yes... that's why those restaurants were SHUT DOWN!! If you bother to read the health code you'll see that it is far from lenient.

quote:

Why is that..hmmmmmmmmmmm? Why would fresh food grown from the grown, picked and washed and served in a container cost more than a piece of meat that is chopped and processed in a factory then spiced up and packaged by a supplier and then put on to a sugar coated bun with ketchup & Mayo (also laced in sugar) and a few sprigs of the same vegetables in a salad? Why is it so hard for you to see the obvious common sense logic that the salad should cost less. How much do you pay for meat when you do your groceries vs. buying lettuce an tomatoe and a cucumber? Do you really feel that confident as to profess a great education from your parents and school, yet you can't see this one?

I think we all know that they put filler and preservatives in the meat. They don't try to hide this. McDonald's in Canada has pamphlets in the restaurant with nutritional information on all their products, if anyone bothers to look at it - and if they don't bother to look at it, then it's their own damn fault for eating it.

quote:

Not everyone lives as priviledged a life as you do. Some don't even have 2 parents or get an allowance. Many live below poverty. Are you saying you have no respect for them? Are you saying that if they are stupid to buy into bad food then they deserve it.

What does the first part of that paragraph have to do with the second part? I seriously don't think these lawsuits are filed by homeless kids living below the poverty line. I think most of them are more worried about malnutrition than obesity.

quote:

As a consumer.....would you want to spend more on something that has a somewhat good taste and is healthy vs. spending less on something that just tastes good? How can you think a child would know the difference. Your not making any sense.

I'm making perfect sense. A child doesn't have the option to choose what just tastes good as opposed to what's healthy. And if the child does have that option, then either he or she is WAY too old to be considered a child, or the parents are not being responsible!

Let me spell this out for you: CHILDREN GET FED BY THEIR PARENTS. If the parents are too fucking lazy to cook and too fucking cheap to go out to a decent restaurant, and take their kids to McDonald's several times a week, then IT'S THE PARENTS' FAULT that the kids are obese.

quote:

I can't help but feel concerned for the education and manipulation of kids by self interest corporations.

And I can't help but feel concerned for the manipulation and LACK of education of lazy loudmouth victimizers and political lobbyists who abuse the system for personal gain and to exculpate themselves from their own lack of responsibility.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 buying food from third world countries is a good thing. Why? Because even if the farmer makes 1/3 of what they make here its comparing apples to oranges. WHY? because perhaps that farmer's cost of living down there is 1/3 of what it is here? I always shudder when people compare countries using solely income and exchange rates. I was able to earn 1500 pesos a month and pay 150 for rent on an apartment twice the size of the one i pay 800 for in canada. Work that 1500 out into US dollars and i was making $500US a month. Shit money for here but amazing to live on in argentina.

So what your saying is that you support keeping third world countries around and getting rich off of others. I suppose ethics has no meaning or value in your life.

Jayx1 we are definately of two different world. I believe all should be treated equally regardless of race, creed, colour, religion, class, etc. I believe in assimilation and cooperation for a better quality of life. and I believe that all businesses can be rich without the need to trample on others rights.
It seems your values are only based on money? Tell me...what are you going to do when you die? Have you figured out that you can't take that money to your grave? I hope you have your Will in place and that some day you'll have a responsible executor, b/c if you die intestate....you can kiss that money goodbye....the govt. (queen) claims ownership to it then. Here's some free legal advise....also get a power of attorney...b/c if you ever go into a coma b/c you got food poisening which affected your brain then your outta luck too....they'll have to pull the plug b/c that money belongs to the crown....your family will have to sue for it.

Hopefully one day...you will feel the need for equitability....and you'll understand why it's essential to change your view, but if your only basis for argument is money and profit...then lets not run in cirles....
Asta luego, que pases buena noche

No no no, you don't get it. Liberty is all about equal rights, NOT equal treatment. There's a difference.

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