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- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- Rogers begins the rape of FIDO
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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Actually there are well-documented connections between the head honchos at the CRTC and the telecom giants like Bell and Rogers. Of course that doesn't *necessarily* mean there are bribes, but come on...

yes tho i'm sure u'd find that apparent in any industry where there are billions of dollars at stake

quote:

Originally posted by baystreetboi What makes it so bad? I just did a search for rates on Verizon, Cingular and T-Mobile for Buffalo... none of them appear to offer any significantly cheaper plans compared to what you can get here in Canada when you take exchange into account. Is it the lack of choice? The US is about 10x our size, yet they only have about 5-6 real "national" cell phone companies, so having even just 3 here isn't all that bad.

Their plans are far better then ours. You can't take exchange into account, we're not talking about anything 'cross border' here. If you lived in the states you would be paid in USD. When you live here you're paid in CDN. So $40 out of your pocket regardless of currency, gets you more in the US then it does here. They have more competition, and it will only get better for them.

the unlimited plan will be converted to a 750 minutes all time plan once the time is up, and there will be a new plan with 1400 minutes for 70$.

i fucking knew it that rogers would screw us over

i now have a plan with unlimited incoming calls for 25$, if they change it i'll ,... i'll .... i'll... be screwed

quote:

Originally posted by tw1tch Their plans are far better then ours. You can't take exchange into account, we're not talking about anything 'cross border' here. If you lived in the states you would be paid in USD. When you live here you're paid in CDN. So $40 out of your pocket regardless of currency, gets you more in the US then it does here. They have more competition, and it will only get better for them.

Sure you have to take exchange into account. Sure they get paid and pay in USD, but a person earning say $40K US would be earning about $50K CDN. A $40 US plan is the equivalent of about a $50 CDN plan.

Cingular: For about $30 US (or about $37.50 CDN) you can get 250 anytime mins, 1000 evening / weekend. Additional mins are 45 cents.

Rogers: For about $40CDN (including system access fee) you can get 200 weekday mins and unlimited evenings / weekends. Additional mins are 25 cents.

The only difference between the two plans is that the Cingular mins include long distance, whereas Rogers doesn't. (However, you do get cheaper overtime mins with Rogers and unlimited evenings / weekends).

Except for someone that makes exceptional use of their cell to make long distance calls, I'd say those two plans are essentially comarable, and about the same price.

quote:

Originally posted by dEsidEL yes tho i'm sure u'd find that apparent in any industry where there are billions of dollars at stake

Of course, it's just that most of those industries don't have the authority to create laws. They can lobby, sure, but that's not the same as having direct connections to a regulatory board.

I have no idea about US vs. Canada being better as far as minutes/dollar - however the US is MUCH MORE progressive in hardware - and that alone is an important factor.

At the very least - Virgin should bring some additional hardware competition.

I run between $200 and $250 per month on mobile billing (use it for home, business [expense], etc), so company "A" is the same as company "B" - they all would cost me about the same - but I just want access to GOOD handsets.

CDMA handset options are s**t in Canada. Mind you, -all- CDMA handsets could be s**t if you talk to some...

quote:

Originally posted by dEsidEL i really hate that law they hav in place to protect the telecom market from foreign ownership .. what's the point if existing Canadian carriers are only trying to maintain the status quo

those large companies (Bell, etc.) are supported by the Lieberals, and vice-versa

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker CDMA handset options are s**t in Canada. Mind you, -all- CDMA handsets could be s**t if you talk to some...

V710!!
LG535

Flip = too fragile.

I want a CDMA Sony p910 (tw1tch, quiet with your GPRS bragging!! )

I think Canada is about 7 years behind Japan as to mobile technology, and maybe 2 years behind the U.S.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Flip = too fragile. I want a CDMA Sony p910 (tw1tch, quiet with your GPRS bragging!! )

I like flips.
As well, the 535 is a slider

I did some DoCoMo protyping for our Japanese division back in 1999/2000 and Canada still isn't there.

Small example of how they have more options.

Cingular Nation 600 w/Rollover $49.99/month

- 600 Anytime Minutes
- Unlimited Evening/Weekends
- Unlimited Mobile to mobile (assuming Cingular to Cingular)
- Long distance included
- Roaming Including (US Roaming)

Features Included
- Basic Voicemail
- Call Forwarding
- Call Waiting
- Call Display
- Detailed Billing
- Long Distance

Oh, did I mention you can roll-over your 600 minutes if you don't use them.

Let me see you get THAT service in Canada for $49.99/month out of your pocket.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Flip = too fragile. I want a CDMA Sony p910 (tw1tch, quiet with your GPRS bragging!! )

I don't think they make a CDMA version, GSM is the only way to go.

come on dudes you can't compare Japan and Canada... Japan's land mass is about one third of Ontario's.... it cost much less to deploy wireless networks in a country of that size than in a huge country like Canada. And don't tell me that none of the networks cover all of Canada, of course, but look at the coverage maps by each company, its way bigger than japan...

for fuck's sake, even Syria has a 3G network, and its a developping country (if not 3rd world), but its tiny.

quote:

Originally posted by malek come on dudes you can't compare Japan and Canada... Japan's land mass is about one third of Ontario's.... it cost much less to deploy wireless networks in a country of that size than in a huge country like Canada. And don't tell me that none of the networks cover all of Canada, of course, but look at the coverage maps by each company, its way bigger than japan... for fuck's sake, even Syria has a 3G network, and its a developping country (if not 3rd world), but its tiny.

they could deploy the networks in the major metropolitan areas first, then spread them out as the cost comes down..

...in fact, they've been doing that to an extent, but just not fast enough.


four possible reasons:

1. our land lines are very good, so there's no pressing need (in contrast to Syria)

2. Canada is poorer than other OECD nations (in contrast to Japan and the U.S., which are far richer than Canada on an absolute basis and per capita)

3. the big players are to some extent protected from market forces by the Lieberals, so they don't feel rushed to make large capital investments

4. smaller population = smaller possible subscription base to which capex can be spread out

quote:

Originally posted by malek come on dudes you can't compare Japan and Canada... Japan's land mass is about one third of Ontario's.... it cost much less to deploy wireless networks in a country of that size than in a huge country like Canada. And don't tell me that none of the networks cover all of Canada, of course, but look at the coverage maps by each company, its way bigger than japan... for fuck's sake, even Syria has a 3G network, and its a developping country (if not 3rd world), but its tiny.

I don't think you can use that really. So it's one third, the coverage of the networks available in ontario only cover about a 3rd to half of Ontario, yet they're years behind.

quote:

Originally posted by tw1tch I don't think you can use that really. So it's one third, the coverage of the networks available in ontario only cover about a 3rd to half of Ontario, yet they're years behind.

and add the coverage areas of all the other provinces.

plus canada is only the quarter of the Japanese population.

might explain why Canada is far behind Japan and to some extent the US.



in syria there was coverage in the middle of the desert where no city were to be found, complete shitholes like you never imagined with GPRS coverage hehehe...

I don't buy all the crap about smaller population, more land. The mobile industry is controlled by what 3 companies? They all do the same shit, they don't have to worry about foreign competition, they can sit pretty and with little concern.

quote:

Originally posted by malek plus canada is only the quarter of the Japanese population.

That's exactly what makes the Canadian networks so worthless. Good networks are just as much about the number of people covered as they are about the area of coverage. Our networks are hardly servicing anyone and they still can't keep up.

The fact that there's coverage in other provinces really doesn't matter much. So the telcos install a couple more satellites and base stations... that's not really a technological improvement. And that's exactly the problem - instead of actually improving the networks, they just keep installing more relays so the networks get all bloated.

Think of a LAN in an office which used to have 10 people and now has 1000. And instead of changing the network topology, all they do is buy a shitload of switches and hook them all up in a tree, and don't change anything else. That is exactly what the telcos here are doing with the wireless networks.

quote:

Originally posted by tw1tch I don't buy all the crap about smaller population, more land. The mobile industry is controlled by what 3 companies? They all do the same shit, they don't have to worry about foreign competition, they can sit pretty and with little concern.

Rogers has donated almost $500,000 to the Lieberals in the past few years, and Bell quite a bit as well.

http://www.elections.ca/scripts/web...entity=4&lang=e

quote:

Originally posted by tw1tch I don't buy all the crap about smaller population, more land. The mobile industry is controlled by what 3 companies? They all do the same shit, they don't have to worry about foreign competition, they can sit pretty and with little concern.

no competition isn't helping us, so these guys are sitting on their ass because its just too risky financially to deploy massive networks for such a small population.

and i'm not even sure that a foreign company would try and install a brand new network.

What canada needs is a law like some european countries where companies are forced to share their towers (decreases the costs of network deployments).

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf Rogers has donated almost $500,000 to the Lieberals in the past few years, and Bell quite a bit as well. http://www.elections.ca/scripts/web...entity=4&lang=e

What I find most ironic about that graph is how almost all of the top contributions to the Conservatives have been from INDIVIDUALS and almost all the Liberal funds have come from COMPANIES.

Sort of puts the whole "greedy capitalist corporation" stereotype into perspective, eh? Or maybe it's just a small reminder that the LIEberals are always for sale.


Also, who the fuck is 55555 Inc and why in the world did they give the Lieberals $3 million!? I can't find any information about them, anywhere. Something about that doesn't smell right.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Of course, it's just that most of those industries don't have the authority to create laws. They can lobby, sure, but that's not the same as having direct connections to a regulatory board.

figure of speech .. (industries that require government regulation of some sorts)

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut What I find most ironic about that graph is how almost all of the top contributions to the Conservatives have been from INDIVIDUALS and almost all the Liberal funds have come from COMPANIES. Sort of puts the whole "greedy capitalist corporation" stereotype into perspective, eh? Or maybe it's just a small reminder that the LIEberals are always for sale. Also, who the fuck is 55555 Inc and why in the world did they give the Lieberals $3 million!? I can't find any information about them, anywhere. Something about that doesn't smell right.

55555 Inc. is a company set up by Paul Martin to shift donations from his personal leadership campaign to the Lieberal Party.

He generated almost $12 million in donations - the most in Canadian history, and in violation of party rules.

The question is: who donated to Paul Martin?

Here's a partial listing:

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inte...n/oe01374e.html
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inte...n/oe01421e.html
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inte...n/oe01387e.html

Note the use of numbered companies, and also the fact that most of the donors were companies, and not individuals.

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