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-- Muslim invasion of Europe - Triumph of the East
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Originally posted by imokruok 2) The US can't be lumped in with Europe when you talk about Islam "conquering" the regions. You can already see the friction in Europe from the governments' inability to assimilate immigrants. Case in point: the ghettoes in Paris, Rotterdam, etc. Islam will attempt to conquer these societies because its followers have no role to play in the local culture. The US, on the other hand, does a pretty good job of integrating muslims into Western society. Plus, there are a hell of a lot less of them here than in Europe - by far.

I think this is true to most "old worlds" and "new worlds". Brazil also integrates immigrants quite easily

Shadowolf has admitted to being the child of Fascist immigrants to Canada. Enough said.

And easy on the fonts cowboy. I might need a few more monitors to read your posts.

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Originally posted by razmataz Shadowolf has admitted to being the child of Fascist immigrants to Canada. Enough said.

I suggest you watch your mouth.

Stick to the issue at hand please.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf I suggest you watch your mouth. Stick to the issue at hand please.

But you are an immigrant

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Originally posted by h@x0r Islam is one of the "youngest" religions. And as such, to survive it must use whatever means are necessary and the means are fear - just like always. Christianity did the same thing when it was starting out. Crussades were not about re-occupying formerly Christian lands, this is bullshit. Israel was not christian for thousands of years! Crussaders came to the "Land of Christ" to claim it as theirs, destroyed temples, killed jews - all in the name of "Our Lord". What about the Inquisition in 1400's??? What was that about? Spreading the message of love through torture, murder, expulsion, robbery? Please, Islam is just giving you a taste of your own medicine. Why Islam is the leading religion in US Prisons???? Because if you don't convert, they rape your infidel ass until you're ready for some protection. When you're one of Islam's own, they will protect you and you won't get violated no more. Please, get real. The only comforting fact here is that at least the world is not so worried about the Jews taking over the world anymore. Here's the only thing Cyrus King and I seem to agree on: ALL FORMS OF RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISM AND EXTREMISM IS IDIOTIC AND MUST BE ERADICATED! QUITE HONESTLY, A LITTLE "CLEAN UP JOB" IN THE WORLD TO WASH AWAY ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISTS WOULDN'T BE A BAD IDEA... MAYBE SOME SERIOUS CLENSING IS IN ORDER??? NO? JUST A THOUGHT

Yepz.
As for Ayia Sofia being destroyed/changed, it hasn't been touched except for some of the inside plaster being taped over w images that would normally belong in a mosque. (however some of the older Byzantine icon images have been still seen underneath).

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In Britain, attendance at mosques is now higher than it is in the Church of England.

Riiiiiiiiight, and that tells us what? That there are shit loads of Muslims invading our country, or that the UK is the most unreligious country in the world after North Korea??? Maybe we should get more Muslims over and convert them to secularism/religious apathy???

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Originally posted by josh4 Thats all I was saying, really. Pfft. You give us any culture any society any way of living or doing something and we'll have it Americanized for you tomorrow. Even if it means dropping a bomb, sorry Iraq. We poor the salad bowl into the melting pot and stir. Then sell it deep fried at McDonalds for $1.

maybe 100 years ago America was a melting pot of cultures open to all peoples of the world - can the same be said today of "fortress" America??

i'm with shadowolf on this one... I went to Syria and Lebanon last month and the article is right about islam wanting to conquer the world either by force or with the sword.

We left Syria many years ago because there is no future for Christians in this country, the same can be said about Lebanon.

Bush must invade Syria!

and you guys especially Lira, talking about cultural "benefits" have no idea what the hell you're talking about. You never went to a muslim country, you don't know how it is over there, ...

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Originally posted by malek i'm with shadowolf on this one... I went to Syria and Lebanon last month and the article is right about islam wanting to conquer the world either by force or with the sword. We left Syria many years ago because there is no future for Christians in this country, the same can be said about Lebanon. Bush must invade Syria!

Er, I'm sure you have it wrong about Lebanon (can you expand?) as the Christians are the most powerful ethnic group in the country last time I checked?

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Originally posted by George Smiley Er, I'm sure you have it wrong about Lebanon (can you expand?) as the Christians are the most powerful ethnic group in the country last time I checked?

er no, Lebanon had a comfortable Christian majority before the civil war, since then, most Christians have left to South America, Europe, Canada, USA, etc, etc. There literaly millions of Christian Lebanese outside of Lebanon.

Now its around 60/40 in favor of muslims and the only reason why Christians have some power left is because in the new consitution every ethnic group is guaranteed a fixed position in the govt (the prime minister should be coming from this group, the president from that group, etc etc...)

Essentially, those in favor of Syrian activities in Lebanon are Muslim, and those against it are Christians.

In Syria it used to be 25% or so Christian, now its a mere 5-10%.

Re: Re: Re: Keep banging in the walls of fortress Europe!

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Originally posted by Lira Sure, the mosques, the scientific legacy, farming techniques, and the words introduced to the Portuguese language were indeed stolen from the Romans. In fact, F�tima is not an Arab word (for example, and this is a word you ought to know if you're a Christian) and this is an example of the quintessential Roman arquitecture: This is in Spain, by the way. It's a shame Christian destroyed many buildings left by the Moors edit: By the way, back in the time when the Moors were in the Iberian peninsula, muslims, christians and jews got along quite well

Cordoba... one of the most beautiful cities I have ever been to. The Mezquita was simply and utterly impressive.

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Originally posted by malek er no, Lebanon had a comfortable Christian majority before the civil war, since then, most Christians have left to South America, Europe, Canada, USA, etc, etc. There literaly millions of Christian Lebanese outside of Lebanon. Now its around 60/40 in favor of muslims and the only reason why Christians have some power left is because in the new consitution every ethnic group is guaranteed a fixed position in the govt (the prime minister should be coming from this group, the president from that group, etc etc...) Essentially, those in favor of Syrian activities in Lebanon are Muslim, and those against it are Christians. In Syria it used to be 25% or so Christian, now its a mere 5-10%.

Christians still make up a large proportion of the population (39%) while Muslims make up 59.7% (and that includes Sunnis and Shiites so taking those two separately may make the Christians the largest group??)

Also, the fact that the Christians are guaranteed representation in government (the Presidency) seems to run counter to your claim that there is no future for Christians in Lebanon...

I'm not too sure about which groups support Syrian occupation (obviously the Christians are against) as altho Syria allows Hizbollah to operate, I'm not sure whether the Shiites support continuing occupation (altho I must point out that is merely an assumption)

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Originally posted by malek and you guys especially Lira, talking about cultural "benefits" have no idea what the hell you're talking about. You never went to a muslim country, you don't know how it is over there, ...

I'm talking about what has happened since the beginning of time, in India, Greece, Japan, England... what happens when two (or more) different cultures "meet". It works

In an extremely simplified way of viewing it, if the Islam conquered Europe, the result would be a blending of the old European values (thesis) and the new Islamic arrival (antithesis). This would produce the obvious synthesis, the subproducts. Once the two cultures merged, it would indeed bring benefits, as the knowledge of both backgrounds would be unified.

I'm going to give you a small example. As you might know, Brazil's been colonised by the European, even though we had Native Brazilians here. They were slaughtered, but their culture is still alive in Brazilian's daily life. Then we had the Africans coming here, and once again our culture went through major changes. That turned Europe's greatest parties (such as carnival) into a completely different thing, for example.

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Originally posted by josh4 See this is one thing American culture is good for. After a couple years in America any religious fanatic will soon become so lazy they won't care about religion anymore. Not that they don't believe, they just don't care. Seeing the next episode of CSI becomes a higher priority.

Or '24' or Power Rangers... LOL

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Originally posted by Lira I'm talking about what has happened since the beginning of time, in India, Greece, Japan, England... what happens when two (or more) different cultures "meet". It works In an extremely simplified way of viewing it, if the Islam conquered Europe, the result would be a blending of the old European values (thesis) and the new Islamic arrival (antithesis). This would produce the obvious synthesis, the subproducts. Once the two cultures merged, it would indeed bring benefits, as the knowledge of both backgrounds would be unified. I'm going to give you a small example. As you might know, Brazil's been colonised by the European, even though we had Native Brazilians here. They were slaughtered, but their culture is still alive in Brazilian's daily life. Then we had the Africans coming here, and once again our culture went through major changes. That turned Europe's greatest parties (such as carnival) into a completely different thing, for example.

That doesn't apply to Islam.

How many people do you know practice Zorastorism in Persia/Iran? What about Christians in Turkey (one of the centers of early Christianity)?

Any Buddhists left in Indonesia or Malaysia? Not many.

i liked the large fonts as it was a nice way to highlight interesting points, and I found the article very argumentative, and enjoyed the part about Lord of the Rings.


this is a very scary situation, especially as time goes on and it gets easier and easier for these zionist groups to get nuclear weapons

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf That doesn't apply to Islam. How many people do you know practice Zorastorism in Persia/Iran? What about Christians in Turkey (one of the centers of early Christianity)? Any Buddhists left in Indonesia or Malaysia? Not many.

Malaysia:
53% Muslim
17% Buddist
12% Confucianism and Taoism
7% Hindi,
7% Christian, Sikh and Animism

20% is quite a fair amount of followers, since Buddhism had never had supremacy in Malaysia (it lived along with Hinduism). Besides, Islam arrived there in the 14th century, so it's quite well established.

Indonesia:
87% Muslim
7% Protestant
3%Catholic
2% Hindi and
1% Buddhist

Islam arrived during the collapse of the Hindu and Buddhist empires, and it was acquired by assimilation. Not much different from what happened in Europe with Christianism, is it?

Iran:
Ever heard of the Baha'i faith? Well, that's what I'm talking about.

Turkey:
Turkey is more secular than most Muslim countries, having a clear separation between Church and state, and the constitution recognises freedom of religion. The proximity with Europe probably has been a major factor for such attitude. The number of non-moslems has been falling because of migration, aging and Islamic influence.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

And in what point exactly what I said doesn't apply to Islam? Did you really expect Islamism to disappear after being acquired by local cultures? I said it's been influenced, and you can clearly see that in the differences between each country.

dude, stop quoting some books...

have you gone to a muslim country?

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Originally posted by malek dude, stop quoting some books... have you gone to a muslim country?

I'm really curious to find out why Islam would be completely different than any other religion, to the point it becomes an exception when in contact with other cultures despite of what's been previously mentioned. No matter how violent or fanatic they are, it's already happened before.

So, Malek, what would make Islam stand out? You said they wanted to take over the world (which is nothing new, as that's been part of the Christian church for centuries) and that they're religiously intolerant (once again, the Christian church has been guilty of that as well), but you didn't mention any peculiarities.

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Originally posted by Lira You said they wanted to take over the world (which is nothing new, as that's been part of the Christian church for centuries)

You see, the thing is it has been a part of Christianity, but in these modern times there is no room for such thinking and unfortunately there are many fanatic religious Islamic groups who still see that as their main goal.

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Originally posted by DJ-Kreing^^ You see, the thing is it has been a part of Christianity,

was it cold in the hole you've been hiding? we have people saying that christianity is the fundamental necessity of democracy in the states, and those same people are fearful of the indoctrination of other religions into our side of the world.

dude.. one day in the southeast us, and you'll realize that muslims aren't the only one's still trying to take over the world.

sorry you're getting the brunt of the force, but we have our own zelots to contend with.

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Originally posted by malek dude, stop quoting some books... have you gone to a muslim country?

Well, I suppose not all muslim countries are the same. Turkey, Jordan, or Malaysia shouldn't be that problematic to live in...

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Originally posted by malek and you guys especially Lira, talking about cultural "benefits" have no idea what the hell you're talking about. You never went to a muslim country, you don't know how it is over there, ...

neigther do you

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Originally posted by Lira No matter how violent or fanatic they are

I'm not trying to launch any personal attacks or directed at christianity, but Christianity has had a far more bloody history than any religion I can think of. Plus, ppls ignorance and misunderstanding of Islam is also quite annoying. I'm sick of hearing things like "Islam is an inherintly violent religion" or "Muslims are by their very nature barbarians" and things to that effect. Yes, it's true that currently the Muslim world has some seriousw problems. Every culture/religion/whatever has it's periods of decadance. So passing sweeping statements like "Islam is violent and intolerant" based on only cetain events and biased media coverage is pretty unfair. That's like attributing the decedance and the barbarism of the dark ages to christianity. (or the spanish inquisition or the spanish conquest of america)

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