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quote:

Originally posted by Crazy Serb Isn't that the case with any of these American "muscle cars"? Dodge Viper, Mustang, etc... they're just shit when it comes to anything else but straight line driving.

Yup...besides let's not talk about FORD quality...FORD, especially in north america is a big piece of shit car, horrible quality, and very unreliable...drive it off the parking lot and the price DIVES down. I would never take a Ford over a European car or an Infinty for that matter. Speaking of which, the Infinitys are VERY SEXY!

Ford of Europe and Australia make fantastic cars. They're completely different from Ford of America. The Falcon XR6 Turbo is a glorious machine with a turbocharged 4.0L straight six, and it's RWD to boot

My mother drives an '00 Mustang and it honestly has the shittiest interior of any car I've ever sat in. The quality is just beyond shit - there is zero fit and finish. Panel gaps are huge, plastic quality feels like a toy you get from a Kinder Surprise egg, and every single HVAC vent is broken. They just literally fall apart.

quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher Yup...besides let's not talk about FORD quality...FORD, especially in north america is a big piece of shit car, horrible quality, and very unreliable...drive it off the parking lot and the price DIVES down. I would never take a Ford over a European car or an Infinty for that matter. Speaking of which, the Infinitys are VERY SEXY!

woooaah, relax buddy, you make them sound as if they're as bad as Lada's.

American cars have surpassed European cars in reliability but are still far away from Japanese cars. Volkswagen, Porshe, BMW and even Mercedes have had serious reliablity issues lately. The only clear winner in the European market is Audi. Please visit Consumer report of 2004 for more details.

The interior finish of alot of American cars have been a serious problem, thats true And especially in older Mustangs. But there's also the luxury brands like Lincoln, Cadillac and some high end Chryslers that are onpar with their European counterparts, don't brush them off. Don't compare a Ford with a BMW, compare them with Lincoln or Cadillac instead. Also, everyone blames american cars for their medicore interiors while forgetting that not too long ago (and still in many models) Japanese cars have been even worse!

here we go with some facts to support my claim:


Small cars:
Most reliable:
Toyota Corolla
Scion xB
Honda Civic
Mazda3
Subaru Impreza
Toyota Echo
Mitsubishi Lancer (except Evo)

Least reliable:

Volkswagen Golf (turbo)
Volkswagen Jetta (turbo)
Volkswagen New Beetle

Sedans:

Most reliable:
Lexus IS300
Acura RL (previous version)
Toyota Camry (4-cyl.)
Toyota Avalon
Lexus LS430
Lexus GS300/GS430 (previous versions)
Buick Regal (discontinued)
Pontiac Grand Prix
Hyundai Sonata
Infiniti G35 (AWD)

Least reliable
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
Jaguar S-Type
BMW 7 Series
Jaguar X-Type
Mercedes-Benz E-Class
Mercedes-Benz C-Class (V6)
Volvo S60 (AWD)
Saab 9-3
Pontiac Grand Prix (supercharged)
Volkswagen Passat (AWD)
BMW 5 Series


http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/08/pf/...to_reliability/

i'll try to find out more...

European vehicle reliability stalls

Consumer Reports annual survey of cars and trucks rates Asian brands on top, U.S. mixed, Europe worst.

By Brett Clanton / The Detroit News


European automakers fared the worst on Consumer Reports magazine's closely watched survey of vehicle reliability, with Asian brands dominating and Detroit automakers scoring mixed results.

Consumer Reports' New Car Preview 2005, which hits newsstands today, offers the first look at findings from an annual survey of about 5 million car and truck owners, who answer questions about problems with their vehicles during the past three years. Consumer Reports uses the data to make predictions about the reliability of 2005 models that are reaching showrooms this year. The magazine designates vehicles as "most reliable," "least reliable" or average.

The magazine weighs reliability heavily in determining whether it will ultimately recommend car or truck to readers. The recommendation can be crucial to a vehicle's success. About 40 percent of U.S. car buyers consult Consumer Reports before buying a new car or truck.

Among the 32 vehicles considered most reliable, 29 were built by Japanese companies, according to the survey.

Toyota Motor Co.p. led the pack with 16 models spread over its Toyota, Scion and Lexus brands, while Honda Motor Co. had seven models on the most reliable list, including two by its Acura brand.

General Motors Corp. was the only domestic company to make the most reliable list, scoring two spots, with its Pontiac Grand Prix and soon-to-be-discontinued Buick Regal.

Of the 38 models in the least reliability category, 20 were European, 13 were built by U.S. companies and five were Asian. Among the least reliable: the Ford F-150, the Volkswagen Touareg SUV, Jaguar X-Type sedan, BMW 5 Series sedan, Nissan Quest minivan and the Mercedes-Benz SLK roadster.

David Champion, director of automotive testing for Consumer Reports in East Haddam, Conn., said European automakers fared worst in the survey because of glitches with electrical and power systems.

"Mercedes, BMW and Jaguar tend to come out with the latest features more so than other manufacturers do," while Japanese automakers tend to keep their cars and processes more simple, he said.

The survey follows J.D. Power and Associates' most recent Vehicle Dependability Study of 3-year-old vehicles, which showed ''substantial quality gaps'' between domestic and European models. In the study, European vehicles had 49 more problems per 100 vehicles than did U.S. cars and trucks at three years of ownership.

Detroit automakers, however, should not be celebrating just yet. Consumers are still finding reason to complain about domestic models, he said.

"Sometimes it's the smaller aspects that become very annoying, like the cup holder lid that keeps on dropping off. It's not something that's going to stop you in the street driving along, but it's something that's really annoying that you use every day. It's that attention to detail that the domestics are missing."

But Consumer Reports did reward quality improvements at the Big Three by moving several vehicles into the "recommended" column, including the Chrysler Pacifica wagon, Cadillac CTS sedan and Ford Explorer Sport Trac truck.

The magazine only recommends a vehicle if it receives good consumer survey scores, passes internal driving tests and scores well on federal safety guidelines.

Big Three officials said better scores in some areas were proof that efforts to improve quality are paying off, but they acknowledged that low marks signal there is work to be done.

"One of the main things that still needs to change is consumer perception," said Sam Locricchio, a spokesman for DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group in Auburn Hills. While Chrysler has made big strides in improving quality during the last three years, the market is slow to give domestic automakers credit, he said.

quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher Yup...besides let's not talk about FORD quality...FORD, especially in north america is a big piece of shit car, horrible quality, and very unreliable...

You've obviously never driven or owned any SVT model nor a Mustang GT nor an LS-V8.

FoMoCo makes great cars - problem is people expect a $15k focus to drive like a $35k Accord.

...and Bavarian Motor Works have done it again! sexy and classy all in one! hmmmmm....
i saw one the other day and i almost ran into a pole.
sweeeeet!!!! i want one!

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker FoMoCo makes great cars - problem is people expect a $15k focus to drive like a $35k Accord.

And that's why those reliability ratings have to be taken with a grain of salt.

They are measured in how many problems per 100 cars, as reported by the owner. Obviously somebody with a very high end car is going to report every tiny detail because they paid a shitload for the car. Then again there are some high end cars in there that are under Most Reliable.

Funny how the Pontiac Grand Prix (SE and GT versions, I assume) is in the Most Reliable category, yet the same car, with forced induction, is down on Least Reliable.

That is a load of bullshit, a supercharged 3800 series GM engine is just as solid as the naturally aspirated 3800. They've been around forever. Boggles my mind.



Oh I forgot to add, LOL VW LOL

I'm not a huge fan of Fords at all, any ford = Pain in the ass

Id doubt i'd ever even consider buying a ford


pwns Ford

quote:

Originally posted by Mercedeh I'm not a huge fan of Fords at all, any ford = Pain in the ass Id doubt i'd ever even consider buying a ford pwns Ford

that is one heck of a amazing car which i am considering maybe next year!

i dont know about cars much, but the older cars also i cant say, i have a mazda 6 sport 2004 now, which is owned by ford.


AND I CAN TELL YOU THIS MUCH ITS A AMAZING CAR, Although extremly dirty due to winter


Pleasure to drive, only bad thing its worst on the snow, very light and slips easily.



Great car though

quote:

Originally posted by maxtuh that is one heck of a amazing car which i am considering maybe next year!

It is the E90 M3/M4 concept. It won't look like that unfortunately. However in a few years, I bet Dinan, AC Schnitzer, and Hartge could help you out


PS: Get real snow tires. You won't slip. I recommend either Bridgestone Blizzak WS50s, or the new hotness, Nokian Hakkapeliitta RSi.

V8 + QUATTTROOOOO owns u all!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by VERTiG0 Ford of Europe and Australia make fantastic cars...

sooooo true. Look at the Focus RS...SWEET as hell when it came out!

Malek...it's not JUST about power. A BMW was posted...I replied that the G35 is a superior car...performance and luxery. A Mustang is a fast, cheap piece of crap. Have you ever sat in one? CHEAP, lol.

G35 is pure class...style, power, handling, and top rated by most publications and lauded by Canada's insurance industry.

It's simply in a class all it's own...head and shoulder above the competition, IMHO.

Mustang is nice...but it doesn't hold a candle to the G35 as an all-around great car and daily driver

and Audi's are just high end VWs, fn_xtc...the S4 is sweet...if so many didn't blow up or fall apart, lol...VW has turned to shit the last several years (VW management ADMITS this). Look for the 5th Gen GTi to change that though

BMW quality has really gone downhill too, as much as I hate to see it...

Mazda has brought out the two best new cars this year in their class with the Mazda3 and Mazda6, IMHO...very nice!

Vertigo knows where it's at...don't f around with winter tires and get some "super grip" ice tire that sucks on clean roads...90% of the winter is spent driving on cold, DRY pavement (unless you live in Barrie or something, lol)...so get a *performance* winter tire like the Blizzak WS50 (my EXACT recommendation too!) and you won't regret it (although they aren't cheap).

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT and Audi's are just high end VWs, fn_xtc...the S4 is sweet...if so many didn't blow up or fall apart, lol...VW has turned to shit the last several years (VW management ADMITS this). Look for the 5th Gen GTi to change that though

Hahhah yes, K03s, hahahahah.

Also, MkV GTi? $30k+? No thanks, Mr. Pietschreider.

late model Jettas are made in Mexico

nuff said

VW won't be getting 30k from me...although they should still be nice cars with substantial improvements in quality.

I'm going to pony up a few more bucks this spring...I'm thinking something like:

WRX + turbo-back + Accessport

eg. http://www.cobbtuning.com/wrx/power-s.html (stage 2)

all-season fun

got a bit off topic...sorry for the hijack, lol

I'd really like a MkII Toyota MR2 Turbo. Or a nice '93-95 RX-7.

I dunno Malek....only over the past few weeks Ford recalled over 800,000 SUVs and Trucks, and about 500,000 focus models...

Besides from personal experience after having an merican car i don't think i'll ever go back...I simply don't trust them anymore...

Everybody that I know that has european cars never complains about anything (but price of course ) and everyone with north american always have "something" wrong once in a while.

However I do agree that the North American cars in Europe are a complete 180 from what we have here...much better!

quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher I dunno Malek....only over the past few weeks Ford recalled over 800,000 SUVs and Trucks, and about 500,000 focus models... Besides from personal experience after having an merican car i don't think i'll ever go back...I simply don't trust them anymore... Everybody that I know that has european cars never complains about anything (but price of course ) and everyone with north american always have "something" wrong once in a while. However I do agree that the North American cars in Europe are a complete 180 from what we have here...much better!

I think its a mild case of "the lawn is greener at my neighbours".

In Syria, american cars have a much better reputation than.... japanese cars, people rave about how they're strong, and good looking and reliable... I couldn't believe it.

i've had a ford for 18 months, treatening it like a dirty little whore always pushing it to the limit and drove about 50k kms in that period, no major trouble with it AND always starting in the worst weather. My father got a ford too and he's really happy with it also. We had a ford a while back a shitty escort 86, that was truly a piece of crap. But I guess they've come a long way.

Yeah that's cause in Syria (well actually the middle east and europe in general) it's a whole different car. First of all it's much much more expensive than what it costs here and second of all it's much better made and much more reliable. In Israel American cars are THE SHIT sorta speak too But they are also much better made.

I guess I just had bad experiences...i'll need to see it to believe it

I would take an RS6 over an M5.

quote:

Originally posted by cap I would take an RS6 over an M5.

automatic only

Also 450bhp compared to 507bhp. The Audi does have more torque though.

I'd still take the E60 M5 over any other European car.

Has anyone seen the M6??? Looks wicked!....I can't seem to find it anywhere on the canadian site but you can find more info on the corporate site www.bmw.com








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