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-- Short sighted Pit Bull ban about to pass
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see, if you'd say that in the first place, your threads wouldn't draw so much ire...but I suspect you like that 
compromise it is...muzzle all "pit bull varieties" in public AT ALL TIMES. Have more severe punishments for "pit bull varieties" that attack people vs. a dog that "merely" bites someone. I mean *severe* penalties...but what do you do, put someone in jail? How do you fine some piece of trash who has no money? How do you adequately compensate victims? A dog bite victim could sue...a dead person can't.
speaking of smoking...I've now been to Guv, System, Docks, Fez Batik, and at least a half dozen other bars and clubs, since the ban took affect.
every place was full...they all seem to be coping just fine.
I know of a few clubs that are hurting thanks to the ban since they dont have DSRs. You will see the full effect come next March when provincial rules kick in and they ban smoking on patios and in DSRs. Again, another way the provincial government wont comprimise.
I didnt mention the pitbull comprimise before because im still against those measures but if mitigation is a way to shut people up then im willing to do it. The problem is that if you pass those laws it sets the stage for a ban later on. These prohibitionist nuts dont stop.
I wouldnt make punishment harsher just for pitbull type dogs but for ALL pet owners. But more importantly id punish those who abuse pets more harshly as well.
Sadly this arrogant government will have none of that. They have to appeal to the lowest common denominator with their knee jerk legislation.
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 Actually i applaud her for not being a knee jerk responder. This is the difference between listening to her and someone else who has been through it. To ban the breed even though the science is against it is ridiculous. That fact that she has been through all that she has been through and still believes that this is not right is testiment to the fact that she can see things clearly. Sadly its the politicians and those who support the ban that are the knee jerkers. I cant wait until this ban everything mentality that society is suffering from comes home to roost and affects the things that those people hold dear. I bet those who are against the pit bull ban support the smoking ban for example. You cant just pick and choose this ban mentality because once you set the mood it's hard to reverse it. |
....Second...Pitbulls banned in Winnipeg have REDUCED the number of attacks there.....HELLO....what does that tell you
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 she doesnt own a dog. The more you post the more ignorant you sound. Id quit while im ahead. |
The statistic for Winnepeg says "number of serious attacks" has declined. OK so who defines what is serious? If you believe the pollution people for example, smog alert days have risen in the last 30 years. Well sure it has! Because the level of pollution at which one is called has been lowered!
Im suspicious of statistics when they are left open to unquantified interpretation.
Here is an interesting article about this:
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CBC MARKETPLACE: HEALTH � DANGEROUS DOGS Reducing dog bites and attacks: Are Canadian bylaws strict enough? Courtney Trempe of Stouffville, Ontario, just north of Toronto, was as active an 8-year-old as you'd ever meet. She took music and ballet lessons and played hockey and baseball. She loved animals. On April 29, 1998, Courtney came home with her school dinosaur project. She went out to play at a neighbor's house. The children asked to play with the pet dog next door - a 120 pound bull mastiff. The dog sniffed Courtney, sat back, and then lunged at her neck. Courtney died from massive blood loss and asphyxiation. "It devastated us," Courtney's mother, Donna Tempe, told Marketplace. "She was just the love of our lives. Honestly, we were probably in shock for a good year and a half to two years after this happened." The bull mastiff was put down. As a result of Courtney's death, the local township passed a vicious dog bylaw. Among its provisions, dogs designated vicious: must be leashed and muzzled when off the owner's property must be fenced in when on the owner's property cannot be walked by anyone under 16-years-old The bylaw defines vicious as any dog with a history of attacking a human or another animal. The bull mastiff that killed Courtney Trempe was owned by Toronto lawyer Todd Reybroek. "I wish to god that it never had happened," Reybroek told Marketplace. "I feel responsible that it was certainly my dog that did it and I feel terrible, sick to my stomach. "There isn't a day goes by that I wish it didn't happen." Attack was a shock The attack has scarred Reybroek's family as well. His marriage fell apart after Courtney's death. Reybroek says he'll never own another dog. But he says he sees nothing he could have done differently to prevent the tragedy. Reybroek says his bull mastiff was well trained and obedient. He concedes the dog had attacked a few neighborhood dogs but it had never shown any signs of aggression towards humans. "I'd never seen him make a move to another person at all, let alone a child," Reybroek remembers. "He was really docile, not only with my own daughter who could take food out of his bowl and she'd tug his ears in a playful way and she'd follow him around. There was never a problem. I trusted him absolutely or I wouldn't have had him in the house with me." Most people trust the family dog, but a federal study suggests that trust is misplaced. The study finds dogs we know and trust are the worst offenders for bites and attacks on people. According to the study, the most common biters are german shepherds cocker spaniels rottweilers golden retrievers Other than rottweilers, the breeds named are among the most common in Canadian homes. Emile Therien has seen enough evidence to convince him that more needs to be done to protect people from dogs. Therien heads the Canada Safety Council, which is usually associated with Elmer the Safety Elephant and road safety. The council has launched a public awareness campaign on dog safety. In Winnipeg, pit bulls like this one have been banned, and dog attacks are down dramatically since the city passed its bylaw "We estimate, based on the American experience, and our statistics, that reliably there are � 400,000 to 500,000 bites in this country," Therien told Marketplace. "It's a major, major public health problem. I think a lot of people have really buried their heads in the sand and it's about time we address it." So how do you address the issue? How should we reduce dog bites and attacks? Some Canadian cities and towns have taken steps to try to reduce dog bites and attacks. They have enacted vicious dog bylaws. Many others have not and will not. Some argue that educating children and levying stiff fines on owners who don't control their pets are the answer. But some Canadians want vicious dogs outlawed. The breed most often targeted for outright bans is the pitbull. It was originally bred to fight other dogs. The pitbull has powerful jaws that lock when they clamp down on humans. The injuries can be particularly brutal. In 1989, a pitbull attacked nine year old Candace Allard of Winnipeg, leaving her permanently scarred. Theresa Dingsdale of Coburg, Ontario, organized 'People for Pit Bulls' to lobby for the breed A year later Winnipeg banned pitbulls. It was the first major Canadian city to do so. Pitbulls purchased prior to the ban must be licensed, tagged as dangerous, leashed and muzzled when they leave home. Owners must take out $300,000 in liability insurance. Since the bylaw was enacted, the number of serious dog attacks in the city has dropped from about 25 a year to one or two. The neighbouring cities of Kitchener and Waterloo, Ontario also banned pitbulls after a number of incidents. The results were similar. Kitchener city councillor Jim Ziegler says despite opposition from dog owners, the ban was only logical. "I say you have to put people before dogs," Ziegler told Marketplace. "If there's a breed that can't be trusted, you have to get rid of that breed. And if there's a specific dog that can't be trusted, you have to get rid of the dog. And I don't care if your family loves that animal, if it's a danger to other people you have to get rid of it. It doesn't have human rights." 'People for Pitbulls' Not everyone sees banning breeds as the way to go. Theresa Dingsdale of Cobourg organized 'People for Pitbulls' to lobby for the breed. Dingsdale says crack down on breeders, muzzle dogs, increase fines, license dogs and even dog owners, but don't ban breeds based on headlines. "Before we make decisions based on breed or make decisions based on how it looks we really need to do some research," Dingsdale told Marketplace. "Let's find out a little about these dogs, talk a little about the positive attributes, or the breeds in general instead of listening to isolated incidents." Emile Therien of the Canada Safety Council would ban any breed proven to be frequent and dangerous biters. But first he wants proof: a nationwide data base of dog bites. "At some point you know some politician or some bureaucrat is going to have to -pardon the pun- bite into this and say we have a problem, let's look at it. If it requires doing something let's do it." But John and Donna Trempe, whose daughter Courtney was killed by a dog in a neighbor's backyard, aren't so sure banning breeds is the answer. "There's always going to be the good and the bad, I think, in any breed," Donna Trempe said. "I don't think you're ever going to ban every dog that's going to bite, you should be responsible for it." Todd Reybroek -whose bull mastiff killed Courtney- isn't so sure either. "When you look at the statistics of dog bites � bull mastiffs don't even sort of show up on the radar," Reybroek said. "They're below dogs like cocker spaniels in terms of bites. The problem is it might be a lot like trying to swat a fly with a sledgehammer. Once you start banning breeds, where do you draw the line?" Donna Trempe warns other mothers and fathers to be vigilant: "Don't leave your kids alone with dogs ... If you think that it has a tendency to bite, muzzle it. It's not worth it. One child is not worth it. Any child's life is not worth it." |
OK...I'll say it one LAST time...
GUNSHOTS WON'T KILL PITBULLS once they attack....
And another thing...I don't trust humans when it comes to how they handle dogs in general...MOST dogs are not trained properly by their owners.I often see the dog WALKING the owner instead of the other way around.So if people can't commit to taking the time out of their day to properly train a potentially viscious dog like a pitbull,Rhottie,Bull Mastif, etc then remove the potential hazzard...Like someone mentioned in that article "Dogs don't have human rights"
Great so why not ban all breeds?
As for the gun shots comment, i think it would take several rounds to down several other types of dogs too. My aunt had a golden retriver that got run over by a car 3 times and lived. (this dog chewed his way out of everything including backyards)
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 Great so why not ban all breeds? |
almost as bad as the gunshot comment 
you havnt addressed my "why not ban all breeds"
Whats the diff between the number one biter which happens to be german shepards and a pitbull other than one looks scarier than the other?
Who says that once they pass this pitbull ban they wont try and ban all the breeds on that list now that a precedent has been set?
Somebody think of the children!!
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 almost as bad as the gunshot comment you havnt addressed my "why not ban all breeds" |
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| Originally posted by RobbyG. Because its a "kneejerk reaction"....oh wait....thats what you're accusing the Liberals of doing |
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 almost as bad as the gunshot comment |
So you are telling me that this doesnt hold true with golden retrievers? My aunt's dog Lad would probably have to be shot multiple times as well.
Sorry but this gunshot arguement is weak.
Besides you already confirmed what i have been saying all a long. That this is nothing but kneejerk legislation. So why are you still arguing?
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| Originally posted by jdjd How ridiculous is it that someone gets attacked by a vicious breed and still says they belong on the street? I'll put all my money on the fact that she's a dog owner herself. These owners value dogs like they're better than their own kids. They can get their arm taken off and still be kissing their dogs ass "oh the poor thing doesn't know any better". I've been waiting for them to ban pitbulls for a long time, hopefully german shepherds are next. No fucking around with muzzle and leash laws that nobody obeys while little kids get mauled and killed. Good job guys. |
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 Thank you for confirming what I have been saying all along |
?
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 So you are telling me that this doesnt hold true with golden retrievers? My aunt's dog Lad would probably have to be shot multiple times as well. Sorry but this gunshot arguement is weak. Besides you already confirmed what i have been saying all a long. That this is nothing but kneejerk legislation. So why are you still arguing? |
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| Originally posted by RobbyG. And another thing...I don't trust humans when it comes to how they handle dogs in general...MOST dogs are not trained properly by their owners.I often see the dog WALKING the owner instead of the other way around. |
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| Originally posted by RobbyG. When was the last time that you've heard of a Golden Retriever killing someone or turning on its owner or attacking a kid??? |
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| Dude you don't read/understand the posts you write...YOU said that "we should ban all breeds then"...THATS what a kneejerk reaction is...MAN you contradict yourself on SOO many levels its not funny.... actually it is |
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| Originally posted by RobbyG. When was the last time that you've heard of a Golden Retriever killing someone or turning on its owner or attacking a kid??? |
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| I've had 3 attacks involving members of my family. The dog that attacked my little sister was a cocker spaniel, and the two dogs that attacked my dad years ago were golden retrievers. |
It's not just about that. If we're going to go into facts about other breeds i can tell you right now that Rottweilers are just as dangerous as PitBulls. Not only that but according to this CBC study, the most common biters are:
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"A dog needs responsible ownership regardless of breed," she told CBC Radio. "You train it, you contain and you socialize it. If you ban these guys, what's next? Italy started with a banned list of 13 breeds. They're up to over 40 now. They just banned Welsh Corgis!" |
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During the first year of YGRR's operation, YGRR directors had the tragic experience of taking responsibility for a seven month-old Rescue Golden who severely injured a child, resulting in hundreds of facial stitches, facial paralysis and hospitalization. The dog, who had been given up because he growled when children approached his food dish and had "nipped" several times, was carefully evaluated for YGRR by a very experienced breeder, veterinary technician and obedience instructor. After two months of evaluation and training, the dog had shown no signs of aggression and we placed him in a home with no children. His new owner continued obedience training with him and he was a star pupil. She called often to tell us of his progress. On the fateful day, he went with his owner to a family gathering. He spent the day surrounded by children and adults and enjoyed playing with everyone. That night, as he sat next to his owner at the dinner table, her nephew (a toddler of three) bumped against him. The Golden turned and viciously attacked the child. It took several adults to pull the dog off the child, but not before a great deal of damage had been done. |
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| I don't believe that when this ban goes through it will stop at pitbulls. That's my main problem with it, and the main reason why i do not support any sort of ban on one particular breed of animal. |
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 This is why im over cautious about ANY type of ban that is introduced. Because experience shows that it never stops. |
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 So you are telling me that this doesnt hold true with golden retrievers? My aunt's dog Lad would probably have to be shot multiple times as well. Sorry but this gunshot arguement is weak. Besides you already confirmed what i have been saying all a long. That this is nothing but kneejerk legislation. So why are you still arguing? |
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| Originally posted by MarkT ... most dogs that bite don't maul and kill...certain "pit bull" varieties do...some experts say it's how their brain works...they go into a permanent attack mode that can't be halted, even by multiple gunshot wounds...great! ... |
I used to have a golden retriever until very recently, we had to put her down because she had cancer and I have had 2 other Golden retreivers before her and none of them would hurt a soul intentionally. However, they ARE dogs and dogs will bite in response to certain things. People who own dogs have to be responsable and know about the breed they have. The simple answer it to use common sense.
Banning pit bulls will probably work, but there are other ways of controling them without banning. If someone wants to own a dog that is prone to agressive behaviour, muzzle the dog when it is in public. A dog owner should have control over their dog when it is in public at all times. Pass a law that penalized the owner heavily if they are unable to control their dog.
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 You dont understand the concept of sarcasm. And that lack of understanding led you to contridict my sarcasm thereby resulting in you agreeing with me. |
...So everytime you answer a comment with "so why don't we ban so & so..." we should NEVER....EVER... take you serious eh?
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