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-- what will happen to us old school dj's???
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Its weird whenever people start taking about this sort of shit, it always goes back to how cool vinyl looks and how gay laptops look. I'm sure live musicians thought some weedy prat up there with a pair of technics looked pretty lame at first.

You can do so much more on a laptop than you can on a CD deck, just like you can do more on a CD deck than on a TT. Each is fun, expressive and dare I say 'cool' in its own right.

The term DJ will always be associated with TT or cd decks, but I think with the laptop we are going to see the emergence of another type of musician. Software companies are going to continue to innovate and bring out new tools for live performance. The stuff you can do with Live is already pretty impressive. Mixing live sequencing and sampling on top of fully produced tracks... cmon.. that is fucking cool atleast in technical terms. The actualy beatmixing part might be taken out of the equation, but link the outputs of a laptop up to a portable midi controller or a big mackie desk and all of a sudden the DJ is mixing in not two but four, ten, twenty channels. Shit, thats enough to keep anyone busy and have then looking cool while they are doing it. Laptops dont have to be all about moving mice and staring at a 15 inch screen.

The old school DJ'ing style will never be replaced I don't think...like somebody said, the material may change but software dj'ing is what I'm doing now...and to say the very least...It's a flippin joke. no skill involved, pic a track, put it on, pic a track put it on...I would kill to learn to spin...to REALLY DJ but finding funds to get some TT's is slappin me int he face.

LONG LIVE SPINNING!

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl Its weird whenever people start taking about this sort of shit, it always goes back to how cool vinyl looks and how gay laptops look. I'm sure live musicians thought some weedy prat up there with a pair of technics looked pretty lame at first. You can do so much more on a laptop than you can on a CD deck, just like you can do more on a CD deck than on a TT. Each is fun, expressive and dare I say 'cool' in its own right. The term DJ will always be associated with TT or cd decks, but I think with the laptop we are going to see the emergence of another type of musician. Software companies are going to continue to innovate and bring out new tools for live performance. The stuff you can do with Live is already pretty impressive. Mixing live sequencing and sampling on top of fully produced tracks... cmon.. that is fucking cool atleast in technical terms. The actualy beatmixing part might be taken out of the equation, but link the outputs of a laptop up to a portable midi controller or a big mackie desk and all of a sudden the DJ is mixing in not two but four, ten, twenty channels. Shit, thats enough to keep anyone busy and have then looking cool while they are doing it. Laptops dont have to be all about moving mice and staring at a 15 inch screen.

Interesting point of view and I really think you bring up some valid points.
Based on what you have said I actually think a lot of the fear of new technology partly comes from peoples fear of not understanding music well enough to be able to keep up with it.
Ideally you need to be good musically to be able to spin properly, a point well illustrated by the likes of Van Buuren etc. A point also confirmed by the Harmonic Mixing thread as to be able to utilise the technology properly you have to have this kind of knowledge too.

I have to admit that I still feel that a lap top still looks pretty gay and I still don't feel that it gives anything more to the art of DJing than TTs or CD decks with an effects unit can.
FS isn't really doing anything other than making it easier to carry more music with you (Which can be a good thing) as it still emulates vinyl DJing.

The problem with FS is that a lot of people don't realise that products the encourage the use of MP3s actually really put the squeeze on the vinyl industry. Now don't get me wrong, I wont say anything about those DJs who pay for their tracks but for all of you who do, you can easily find tons more who don't.

As a producer I see things differently in this case because basically everytime I sit down and write a track it has taken x amount of hours of my life. I should always keep in my mind that I am doing it for the love of music and creativity no doubt. But there is also a part of me who would like to feel that if it were to become popular then I would also like some recognition.

It's taken me a long journey of nearly 20 years as a DJ to arrive where I can say that it's my main job, although due to a saturation of DJs not to mention top jocks asking more money than ever I have had to start doing other things in order to live.

I think we sometimes forget what our roll in all this is. We are DJs for the most part, not all of us produce. Essentially I still think that the real breakthrough's are happening in the studio and not at the decks.
All I see with lap tops at the moment is just the ability to do what DJs have been doing for years, the only thing they seem to do is cheapen the art form and potentially turn any fuckwit into a half decent DJ.

Another thing, we are all so fucking obsessed with the tools of the trade, when half of us haven't even mastered the tools we have let alone anything that's still to come.
Have you ever seen those guys who beat on the bottom of plastic paint tubs on NYC subways. They can whack out some amazing percussion and can get some awesome beats and stuff going. Take human beat boxes like Killa Kella, who can rock a whole drum and bass night just using his mouth.

Take people like PvD, yeah he does good stuff with a lap top etc, but we have to remember that the likes of him also mastered the old stuff too.
On the other hand maybe knowledge of the old ways is what's holding us back and if someone who has no prevous knowledge of decks and stuff may be the next person to push the boundries.

The music scene changes so fast I can hardly be bothered to give a shit any more. Trance is dead, prog is in... people board of prog, funky house is where it's at, death reggae is the new black and Potato porn is the new Franz Kafka... bah! I think Tiesto sums it up quite nicely... "Just Be"...

Nem

I know my TTs, mixer, and vinyl won't be going away anytime soon.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Interesting point of view and I really think you bring up some valid points. Based on what you have said I actually think a lot of the fear of new technology partly comes from peoples fear of not understanding music well enough to be able to keep up with it. Ideally you need to be good musically to be able to spin properly, a point well illustrated by the likes of Van Buuren etc. A point also confirmed by the Harmonic Mixing thread as to be able to utilise the technology properly you have to have this kind of knowledge too. I have to admit that I still feel that a lap top still looks pretty gay and I still don't feel that it gives anything more to the art of DJing than TTs or CD decks with an effects unit can. FS isn't really doing anything other than making it easier to carry more music with you (Which can be a good thing) as it still emulates vinyl DJing. The problem with FS is that a lot of people don't realise that products the encourage the use of MP3s actually really put the squeeze on the vinyl industry. Now don't get me wrong, I wont say anything about those DJs who pay for their tracks but for all of you who do, you can easily find tons more who don't. As a producer I see things differently in this case because basically everytime I sit down and write a track it has taken x amount of hours of my life. I should always keep in my mind that I am doing it for the love of music and creativity no doubt. But there is also a part of me who would like to feel that if it were to become popular then I would also like some recognition. It's taken me a long journey of nearly 20 years as a DJ to arrive where I can say that it's my main job, although due to a saturation of DJs not to mention top jocks asking more money than ever I have had to start doing other things in order to live. I think we sometimes forget what our roll in all this is. We are DJs for the most part, not all of us produce. Essentially I still think that the real breakthrough's are happening in the studio and not at the decks. All I see with lap tops at the moment is just the ability to do what DJs have been doing for years, the only thing they seem to do is cheapen the art form and potentially turn any fuckwit into a half decent DJ. Another thing, we are all so fucking obsessed with the tools of the trade, when half of us haven't even mastered the tools we have let alone anything that's still to come. Have you ever seen those guys who beat on the bottom of plastic paint tubs on NYC subways. They can whack out some amazing percussion and can get some awesome beats and stuff going. Take human beat boxes like Killa Kella, who can rock a whole drum and bass night just using his mouth. Take people like PvD, yeah he does good stuff with a lap top etc, but we have to remember that the likes of him also mastered the old stuff too. On the other hand maybe knowledge of the old ways is what's holding us back and if someone who has no prevous knowledge of decks and stuff may be the next person to push the boundries. The music scene changes so fast I can hardly be bothered to give a shit any more. Trance is dead, prog is in... people board of prog, funky house is where it's at, death reggae is the new black and Potato porn is the new Franz Kafka... bah! I think Tiesto sums it up quite nicely... "Just Be"... Nem

Its like comparing apples and oranges really. Sure you can download virtual DJ 2.06 and start queing up MP3s and think your DJing, but anyone who's really mixed knows that using vinyl or cds are a completely different kettle of fish.

I'm saying that laptop performances wont even be in the same class as DJing and if someone is billed as using a laptop, your more likely to see it them advertised as a live performance. So I wouldn't worry about laptop performers stealing the limelight of traditional DJs.

Electronic performers whether they are using TT, laptops or even live gear(although most live music is already pre-recorded onto 8 track or digital with the odd live sample thrown in) is going to take advantage of whatever tools are out there. Ableton Live is just the starting point for laptop mashups. The software already allows for more than just a DJ set, which for trance these days is at the most 2 TT and an FX unit. The idea behind it is that you can slice up your favourite tracks into loops, samples, edits and combine them with samples aswell as your own midi files sequenced to live synths or soft synths. Full support of all the VST plugins out there means a scary ammount of FX and softsynths running from the laptop also.

I think seeing a DJ up there just cueing track after track on a laptop will get boring pretty quickly and people will expect more if your going to be bringing a laptop onto stage. Sure you can just beatmix from track to track, but a laptop is capable of much more than just a couple of virtual TT.

To be honest, I think that trance will be one of the last to take up these sorts fo improvised sets mainly due to the culture aswell as the highly structured way trance music is set out. Electro/breaks/techno will likely lead the charge in these sorts of experimental performances.

Its pretty funny though, for a EDM form that so prides itself on the latest sounds and completely digital soundscapes, us trance addicts seem to hold digital formats and new techniques in such low regard.

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