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Posted by Trance Nutter on Apr-29-2005 13:04:

The Adelaide Uni Union (being the wannabe political force) have gone around the uni sticking stickers saying "Under VSU, this service might not exist" to everything. They really gotta get their facts straight and stop spreading lies, cos they've stuck one to an ATM that is run by a bank that has a brach IN the uni. The uni wouldn't pay anything for that, if anything they'd GET money for that.

Fools

I don't mind good honest debate, but when these knob jockeys just start spreading shit with no factual basis it really shits me.

Posted by Philby on May-02-2005 13:44:

the thing is its not only about being in a "union" or paying for people's political views, its about the services uni provides for students and the social clubs and representation you get. if you miss out on these things at your uni then thats sad, if you lose the chance to have these things and try and do something about then thats sadder.

ps.
wheres renegade hehe, im sure he has something to say about all this!

quote:
Originally posted by narcism
And NON students
hail free coronas to the law students (and their friends)

ahahaha spewing i missed that

Posted by quidgydog on May-03-2005 05:19:

As a Adelaide Uni graduate I agree with the whole VSU. For the information of all involved I was involved in two sporting clubs, being secretary of one for two years.

What pisses me off about the Student Union more than anything is the blatant way they waste money. As Trance Nutter mentioned, there are the paid positions, including Women's Officer, Men's Officer, Queer Officer, Environmental Officer and other shit. These people spend our money on such prestigous events as Pride Week, Sex Week, Prosh Week (A practical joke week that would have been fun at a time when people were actually creative. Yes, a water fight in a lecture . . . how fucking original.), the bullshit that is most of O-Week and the Uni Newspaper . . . . shit, nuff said. And don't even go near the issue of money being spent on free piss for a small group of people.

To say that the Student Union benefits the students is pretty much bullshit. They are a quasi-wannabe-Labor-aligned-political group that just fucking bleats about how hard it is to be a dole-bludging Arts student in this day and age. (No offence to any Arts student doing a useful arts degree. To those people doing a typical arts degree majoring in underwater basket weaving . . . . offence intended).

I would have been happy to pay a $100 membership of the Sports Association if that was required to support it.

But as for the Student Union

Posted by Paulie on May-03-2005 11:18:

Id like all the money i spent on the union back.

Posted by Nyquist_Theorem on May-03-2005 12:07:

Yikes.

There won't be any ice cream money left over, I'm afraid. The proposed VSU legislation has nothing to do with how much your education will cost or what you'll be paying for, and everything to do with whether or not your peers (students) will have any say in how any of your money is spent.

It would appear that a fair few of you have fallen for the mistaken belief that passage of the proposed VSU legislation is somehow going to put more money in students pockets. The reality is rather different.

The vast majority of what student unions do involves two things.

a) Making uni a fun place to be (which in turn increases retention rates, ie the difference between whether or not you drop out because you have no friends, or stay on because uni life is good). This is well backed up by research done in the aftermath of Western Australia's abortive attempt to implement VSU at the state level in the late 90s.

b) being active participants in university governance (which means you don't get railroaded by your university). If you are or were an undergraduate, your uni's student union is the reason why you had:

fair hearings for academic and general misconduct
standardised procedures for complaining about academic staff
any sort of orientation program whatsoever
independent counselling or guidance when things went to shit
the majority of computer labs and study spaces on campus (if not union-owned, rolled out under union pressure)

if you are or were a postgraduate, your uni's student union is the primary reason you had:

regular, standardised reviews of your supervisors performance (if RHD)
supervisor code of conduct policies (if RHD)
any real ownership whatsoever of any intellectual property created by you on university grounds in the course of your degree (if RHD)
any documentation on how to write your thesis (if RHD or thesis component coursework)
any seminars or courses whatsoever on how to do anything (ie use endnote, excel, stats, etc)

The sad fact is that the vast majority of what student unions do, most students will never recognise. The PhD student who finds the cure for AIDS (or who invents a better sounding tweeter) will be given the opportunity to profit from his own work and not have all the profits diverted to his or her uni or a private corporation because, unbeknownst to that student, his student union's elected officials were working their freaking asses off for the better part of a year to convince the state government to reject the university's proposed intellectual property statute.

The student who hit her head after tripping on some loose wiring and, as a result of her concussion and the associated headache pain, forgot to turn her mobile phone off during her final exam and failed her year (thus losing her scholarship and being forced to return home to her family in china without a degree or any real chance of ever getting one again), will never appreciate that the appeals process that got her back into australia and into her university to happily finish her degree was only implemented as a result of continued lobbying by her university's student union.

The student who is able to fast-track their degree because they're awarded credits taken as part of another degree (thus saving them a semester or more of redundant study) will never know that it took six months of research and lobbying by the student union to convince the university to allow such credit transfers.

When you read in your university's press release how it's just spent $1.2 million dollars on upgrading study spaces for students, what you don't read is that that $1.2M was only spent after that university's student union commissioned a research study on departmental resources and lobbied at every level of university governance for more than a year, threatening to 'go public' with how poor (and in some cases dangerously unsafe) those spaces were.

Here is the real deal, folks. As a result of the federal government's slashing of education funding (which, if you know much about where prosperity comes from, you'll see is a blueprint for intellectual bankruptcy in Australia come 2015), universities in Australia are completely and totally dependent on the revenues they collect from international students. The way Universities market themselves to these international students is by making university look 'fun' and 'social' and 'engaging', like a summer camp. Right now, the 'summer camp' atmosphere is one part of what student unions provide. Flip thru your uni's international student prospectus and you'll see what I'm talking about.

If the Federal government's proposed VSU legislation goes through, universities are not simply going to let those activities and services dry up - they cannot afford to. Student union budgets are (at least at the sandstone unis) maybe one percent of the university's total budget - a drop in the bucket. So what will happen? Universities will drop the union fee, raise tuition and course fees by a corresponding amount, and seize control over all those events and activities. You'll still pay for them. You may think you'll pay less, but the reality is that universities cannot run events as inexpensively as student unions, for a whole raft of reasons that I'll go into if anyone is really curious.

Universities won't cut those services, since every other modern western nation (with whom Australian universities are in direct competition) has properly funded student unions providing all those glossy-brochure-photo moments. In the UK, the US, Canada and the EU, student unions are funded just like they have been in Australia, for the simple reason that its what works best for students.

So you'll pay the same or more for your education as you do now, but instead of students being involved in uni governance and students having some control over how you money is spent, your university will have complete control over it, with no student-led checks or balances. Remind me again how paying the same money but having less say over how it is to be spent is a good thing?

whoah. VSU rant over. for those of you still reading, come to Altitude this Thursday - 7PM till 10PM!

Posted by Trance Nutter on May-03-2005 13:36:

^^^
Wouldn't happen to be part of a union would you?

Posted by G`Dave on May-05-2005 08:33:

Paying for the Union I have nothing against.

But I think that the various clubs and what not should have to put a bit of work into obtaining their funding.
Take the engineering socioty, last year, I paid $5 probably piss all, but it got my name on the list so they would recieve funding from the union. What did I get for this....?

jack Shit, they never even got around to sending me my 'membership card' they had their funding, with which they bought parts for a rally car that was supposedly a 'club activity' but we never got to see.

So I think that a central union should exsist, but that clubs should be funded by the students, so they might actually have to work for it and provide a service that the students might actually want to take part in.

Also... Inadvertantly paying for a hide-out for fat mole lesbians in the WOYMNS (or some shit like that) ROOM, curls my toes.

Posted by Invertika on May-06-2005 11:43:

I see compulsory union fees as pretty similar to regular tax. I don't really like where a good proportion of my tax money goes, for instance I'm pretty annoyed at having to forcefully pay for this government to help invade other nations purely to kiss America's arse, or to lock up innocent refugees who are simply fleeing the shocking life they have at home, or to fund already super rich private schools.

So, based on this, i wouldn't pay my tax if it was voluntary either, BUT
I also drive on the roads, call the police if i ever need to, watch ABC - things that are so integrated into everyday life that its easy to forget that they're tax funded, so I do pay my taxes with no complaint.

Thats what VSU would get rid of, the invisible things like Nyquist_Theorem said above. You might think you don't use your fees at all, but I really think everybody would notice when they're gone.
so yeah VSU sucks.

Posted by Philby on May-06-2005 13:56:

quote:
Originally posted by G`Dave
Paying for the Union I have nothing against.

But I think that the various clubs and what not should have to put a bit of work into obtaining their funding.
Take the engineering socioty, last year, I paid $5 probably piss all, but it got my name on the list so they would recieve funding from the union. What did I get for this....?

jack Shit, they never even got around to sending me my 'membership card' they had their funding, with which they bought parts for a rally car that was supposedly a 'club activity' but we never got to see.

So I think that a central union should exsist, but that clubs should be funded by the students, so they might actually have to work for it and provide a service that the students might actually want to take part in.

Also... Inadvertantly paying for a hide-out for fat mole lesbians in the WOYMNS (or some shit like that) ROOM, curls my toes.

your fees would have paid for the engineering society, it is funded by students. you pay your fees, it goes to your student association, who gives it to clubs & societies, who give it to the individual groups to hold events. people like you who pay $5 to join the club are providing funding. that funding gets invested into bbqs, holding a ball, information days and open day stalls, careers seminars, boat cruises, t-shirts, trivia nights and all sorts of things that are also funded by your fees. clubs work hark hard to get students involved and provide activities and events to promote what the club is about. they don't come out of nowhere and without hard work. thats too bad you didnt get to see the car being built or get a card, maybe you missed those days when it was on or the club stuffed up, in which case you are a paid member and can complain and let them know how you feel at the general meetings. clubs are great and if all else fails have a whinge at the government that most of the people here didn't want elected hehe

Posted by Sid on May-06-2005 15:04:

quote:
Originally posted by Invertika
I see compulsory union fees as pretty similar to regular tax. I don't really like where a good proportion of my tax money goes, for instance I'm pretty annoyed at having to forcefully pay for this government to help invade other nations purely to kiss America's arse, or to lock up innocent refugees who are simply fleeing the shocking life they have at home, or to fund already super rich private schools.

So, based on this, i wouldn't pay my tax if it was voluntary either, BUT
I also drive on the roads, call the police if i ever need to, watch ABC - things that are so integrated into everyday life that its easy to forget that they're tax funded, so I do pay my taxes with no complaint.

Thats what VSU would get rid of, the invisible things like Nyquist_Theorem said above. You might think you don't use your fees at all, but I really think everybody would notice when they're gone.
so yeah VSU sucks.

obviously both yourself and Nyquist_Theorem have not been to UWS (Bankstown campus). As stated, I really dont think the students would notice the difference if VSU came to fruition. 8000 students folk out $180 a semester and we havn't got a outlet which serves half decent coffee, as a result of both the coffee cart and lounge closing down, due to poor student union management. Forget the coffee, in the 4 years I have been there, we have had a total of 2 free bbqs! Our bar was closed down, for opening beyond licensed hours by the state government and guess what three years later?????? UWS (Bankstown) is still without a bar! What about student representation you say if I have a problem with a lecturer? I was told to seek my own legal representation by the local student association! geeze now I can really justity folking out $180 a semester for some twat telling me that I should speak to a lawyer, if I ever have another problem with a lecturer/tutor at Uni. The only thing that my union fees seem to be going towards is a free Green left weekly every Thursday. Yes I appreciate the cause and people should be made aware of what is really going on around the world, but bugger that if I would pay $180 to suscribe to it!

support VSU people! finally this government is giving us the chance to say where our dollar (which as a student, i'm sure is hard to come by you all) is spent.

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