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-- Producing with software only
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Re: yup

quote:

Originally posted by Signal2005 They dont have a warm sound.They kill cpu (good ones anyway)

not all true.. pro-53 is a really nice synth and it isn't a cpu killer

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Originally posted by alanzo Facts instead of opinions in this matter: Hardware sounds different from software. Which sounds better, I leave up to you to decide.

depends. Have a listen here and tell me your thoughts:Synthology.net demo of patches for V-Station

Synthology.net demo of patches for ES2

quote:

If you can't make good music with only software, getting $100s in hardware isn't going to make your music any better.

true! however, sometimes having "hands-on" could be beneficial for begginer to learn. You don't have as steep of learning curve to overcome. Plug it in and off you go, learning what each thing means. I remember the hard time I had with getting my HD interface to work. With synth - stick in headphones and more buttons you have, the better. for the most part, 1U Rack-based synths should not be in a beginner's arsenal, unless they are willing to put up with growing pain and/or have a great patch editor.

quote:

Using hardware saves on CPU - you can either record to .wav files (like rendering a VSTi) or have the sound feed directly in from the hardware unit. Both require almost no processing on your host machine.

Surely you're jesting, sire! What about that pesky problem with optimizing your system, ZLM, and what do you make of this whole "latency" dillema? Recording sound, especially several tracks is very CPU intensive (unless you have a very good sound card/interface - a la RME/Motu). Slow system will still be slow and you will have issues.

quote:

If you actually buy the software (most don't), software instruments/fx are MUCH cheaper than hardware. Almost all professional/semi-professional EDM producers of today use hardware synthesizers, software FX, and a software sequencer. There are exceptions to this, but this is generally what proffesionals use.

yes, but it is changing. even Herbie Hancock is switching! it's just that moving to soft-based is not easy or very intuitive, at times. there's also a learning curve that's much steeper than hardware. and that's a major stopping factor for some musicians. Hernan Cattaneo wrote about making a track or remixing a track on a way to the gig. Made it on the way on his laptop, burned it to CD and played it at his gig. Now, if that's not a way to work - I don't know what is. Imagine setting up your studio on a plane =). (no, and I don't mean that if you have a plane all to yourself).

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle more, and more software, and less quality music..

+1

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Originally posted by emc^2 depends. Have a listen here and tell me your thoughts:Synthology.net demo of patches for V-Station

still sounds like vstation. Presets are quite good, but it still limited to the nature of vstation.

Try the vengeance forum. They make patches for hard- and software.
Download the hardware demos and listen, how big the difference still is...

Trancevision

Software

quote:

If you actually buy the software (most don't), software instruments/fx are MUCH cheaper than hardware.

I think software is overpriced, for what you get, not all but most. For one it's hard to sell software, you get hardly any money for it. I don't like the fact that when you buy software you don't own it. If you read the disclaimer most software you buy comes with weird terms, almost like leasing it. I can't lend my vsti synth to a friend, it's breach of end user agreement - and I can give my virus hardware to any friend for whatever ammount of time, and it's perfectly legal.

I am no way against software but there are downsides to both software and hardware I guess.

But my worst fear of software is this: Once new operating system comes out some of your favorite software might no longer be usable. So you're might be left behind, it depends on the software company that makes it if they upgrade it to work on the new platform. But a lot of times they will charge you money. So You pay eaven more.. And with hardware it's like this.. A hardware minimoog that was used 15 years ago, can be used toady with say sx 3, or any thing that records audio and has midi... try that with software that's 15 years old..


And by the way, I use both hardware and software synths for the ultimate combination.

quote:

But you do loose the controls of the hardware and IMO thats all the difference.

Which is easier, Programming a hardware FM synth with limited buttons/interface, or using NI's FM7 modulation matrix???

I think the main problem(or not) with software is that because it is so much more acessable, the quantity of music produced is going up, but quality is suffering as a result.
I don;t you can say hardware sounds better just as a rule of thumb though. whats inside the hardware anyway, computer chips and stuff.

A lot of producers are going to software. just read mag interviews and alot of the producers say their making the transition

quote:

Originally posted by Kiddy5825 Which is easier, Programming a hardware FM synth with limited buttons/interface, or using NI's FM7 modulation matrix??? I think the main problem(or not) with software is that because it is so much more acessable, the quantity of music produced is going up, but quality is suffering as a result. I don;t you can say hardware sounds better just as a rule of thumb though. whats inside the hardware anyway, computer chips and stuff. A lot of producers are going to software. just read mag interviews and alot of the producers say their making the transition

mate,you watch to much tv and read to many magazines....they make the trasition but that doesnt mean that hardware is something in the past...as a sequencer i think more than 70% of the producers use software at this time...but as for synth i'm not sure so sure....anyway...as you can see korg developed OASIS wich is like a P4 inside with linux software...roland is not so far behind with the v-synth...so i would say that in the future the hardware producers will offer more software based hardware synth and for sure they will never go fully software...

Re: Software

Half of the amateur producers out there dont even buy software though . Why spend money if they can go download it via P2P file sharing? Its not fair i know because it restricts the company from gaining profit and producing further materials but you cant stop it. Yet i dont understand a lot of people now, why should you say that people with software produce less quality music... honestly, Alphazone and Prodigy 2 solid groups of producers.. their music kicks major ass, is it bad quality because they use software? is it non listenable and do they need to show off with software, they have the money they could use hardware but why when you get nearly same possibilities with software

Ill stop rambling because i know people are starting to boil up.

quote:

Originally posted by emc^2 so, my vote - software is the key. hardware is on its way out. considering the raw power of Live, FL Studio, Reason, Buzz, Absynth, Kontakt, and others - the hardware manufacturers will have to come up with some serious goods to compete. Besides, take a rompler like Korg Triton - what do you think is the shelf life of something like that? How dated will these sounds be 2-3 years from now? well, with software romplers like Atmosphere you can expect a long long life. So, that's my thought for the day.

Yes, and i was gonna add that people that can program computer language like C++, can get a hold of the source code to many of these VST's, people alone can make their own software, A LOT more easier then it is to make yor own hardware...duh.. aswell as its easier to get new patches,banks,updates and what not.

I think thats true that a lot more prop producers have switched to software. I'm not sure if anyone has heard of the following but they all use FL Studio.

S.H.O.K.K
Icone
Flutlicht

And these guys are all making a living of it too. (not sure bout icone :P )

Hardware is bad because of gear lust. There should be a disclaimer on every box.



Who cares what you use though? If the tracks good, its good, if its its shit then nothing will change that. Is it really going to make that much difference if your pads are mad from 1 osc on po53 or 18 oscillators on your virus Ti?

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl Who cares what you use though? If the tracks good, its good, if its its shit then nothing will change that. Is it really going to make that much difference if your pads are mad from 1 osc on po53 or 18 oscillators on your virus Ti?

couldn't have said it better myself

True

Remmember this.

Liam stated he never used reason to make the song only to lay ideas he said he doesnt like softsynths end of story they sound flat and cheap.After puting down ideas he went to a studio with real gear.

The crystalmethod while doing a reason demo.

They were getting payed to say the goods yet still admited it sucked and they try not to use it too much.

if you cant see the diffrence between hardware and software you gotta clean out ya ears.

I use flstudio right now and vst's and as for cracked vst's being wrong.

Let me ask you this who in there right mind would pay 400 bucks for a program that when i scratch or lose cd key your moneys out the window.

and did i mention its software.Im sorry but id rather pay for hardware.

I payed for my FLSTUDIO becuase thats a necessity and worth every penny.

But as for a softsynth i get free ones from kvr.

Who da fuk is Liam? The prodigy guy?

Man, there are a ton of producers in any genre that swear by software and for the record, I think Crystal Method suck dogs balls =) Who gives a shit what they think..

Dismissing software because its on a CD (which you can back up and write down the cd key somewhere) is pretty weak. Software has its weaknesses, but that aint one of them. So you think we should all use cracked software and the magical VST fairy will continue to produce high quality synths for the cost of what? Dude... WTF??

I agree there is sound quality differences between hardware and software, but software still has its place. Show me a hardware synth that has the flexibility of Reaktor?! And what about Csound? Non realtime sound rendering with basically unlimited complexity. You can't do that sort of stuff on hardware. Ganular synthesis? Any hardware granular synths out there?? Hmm.... no

Re: Producing with software only

quote:

Originally posted by Traiden I have been a producer of trance music for over 3 years now. When I just began I used the studio of a friend of mine, but I find producing using just software a lot easier and more fun to do. My friend says that real producers don't use software, but I think this is not entirely true. I know for instance that Rank 1 preferes software too. Are there more producers using just software?

Koris and I only use Software... and sometimes a hardware synth (but rarely). I don't think we can tell that you're "a real producer" because you use hardware. It's a non-sense, it doesn't depend of the stuff you have but of your imagination and your experience.

The sound of the VSt is maybe not the same as the hardware synths, but if you're a good producer you can do a good thing with almost every sound you have.

Re: True

quote:

Originally posted by Signal2005 if you cant see the diffrence between hardware and software you gotta clean out ya ears.

So if your ears are clean, you can see better??

Re: True

quote:

Originally posted by Signal2005 if you cant see the diffrence between hardware and software you gotta clean out ya ears.

You can hear a difference. But can you really hear a difference between a Hardware Novation Synth with bunch of effects on it and a V-Station with bunch of effects too?

I think you can hear a difference in some cases, for example, I never heard a soft synth sounding like the JP-8000. But sometime the hardware synths doesn't sounds as clean as a VST... It could be good, but sometimes the sound is more ugly with hardware synths. Is it a good thing? I'm not sure of that.

I think sometimes it's just a reaction of people who bought a lot of hardware synths and who are saying now: "damn! I spent a lot of money for hardware and now I can have synths on my Computer for a cheapest price! OK: This should say that my hardware synths are better". (I'm not sure about that...).

So why do most of the producers (in every music style) sell their synths to have a computer-based studio? This just confirm that some VSTs are as good as the original and most of the time offers more possibility than hardware.

After that... it's a question of choice.

There is one simple answer to this question:
What is a producer?

Is it someone who PRODUCES tracks?
Or is it someone who PRODUCES tracks with hardware?

In my opinion: this first one.
You can also be a producer if you slack your dick on drums, record that and use it as percussion in your track


what i said before:
"It's not WHAT you use, it's HOW you use it"

Exactly!

And the thing is... if it sounds good with software... where's the problem?

Well, this debate is getting heated, I think both have pros and cons. I for one though, would never have been able to afford to get invovled with dance music production without the advent of soft synths. To build a decent size set up with hardware costs an arm and a leg!!!

quote:

Originally posted by DjMorpheus You can also be a producer if you slack your dick on drums, record that and use it as percussion in your track

lol...

nuff said

Personally software isnt that bad as i do use it but it cant hurt to have a cheap hardware synth lying around like the alesis ion or micron microkorg or used ms2000 and jp8000.

just to have one lying around helps i had once a yamaha djx loli know cheap toy some say but when u got in depth with it there was amazing things one could do.

i made so many great sounds with it it felt hands on it was nice.

i hate software becuase when i look at my screen i feel somewhat dissapointed it doesnt feel as hands on as hardware does i have a midi controller.

but it still doesnt motivate me to do much.It did in the beggining.But now i feel some limitations and aggravation when ur running 6 quality vst's thru your sequencing software and u get that popping crackling damn annoying.

i know when i get my micron friday i can just run it line and get high quality saved to wav files and work from there.

and my little homemade studio will look preety lol.

in my style hardware helps.With trance softsynth do work on most occasions.I produce more of a breakbeat style than trance.

i like heavy warm grooves and i try and try to get it from software but it feels sum what flat.I know if ur good with software u can do more but like i said before i dont feel motivation from my computer screen.

What i ussualy do for insperation is close my eyes on my midi controller and picture myself playing live so i dont screw up when i record my samples.

i think hardware will take me one step further.

Re: Re: True

quote:

Originally posted by DJule You can hear a difference. But can you really hear a difference between a Hardware Novation Synth with bunch of effects on it and a V-Station with bunch of effects too?

Novation is one company that have got their VST's very close to their harware.. in fact.. most people cant tell a Bass station Keyboard apart from its VST version..

quote:

Originally posted by DjMorpheus You can also be a producer if you slack your dick on drums, record that and use it as percussion in your track

YAY!! im a producer!

quote:

Originally posted by DjMorpheus You can also be a producer if you slack your dick on drums, record that and use it as percussion in your track what i said before: "It's not WHAT you use, it's HOW you use it"

^^^^ classic, definitely sig-worthy material. Hence, added!

Now, to settle this debate between ya all mofos, I'll set up a thread and post some samples. We'll have a

"VSTi vs Hardware whore-off contest"

Let your ears be your guide.

'till then!

Amen

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