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quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance maybe for you but for others, it is a part of us

Don;t get me wrong...it does SOME good...but overall it has done more damage to civilized society then not.


"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Steven Weinberg (1933 - ), quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 Don;t get me wrong...it does SOME good...but overall it has done more damage to civilized society then not. "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Steven Weinberg (1933 - ), quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999

that's your opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 Don;t get me wrong...it does SOME good...but overall it has done more damage to civilized society then not. "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Steven Weinberg (1933 - ), quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999

I'm not entirely sure about that....... I don't believe in a religion, but I still think the world would be a shittier place if no one believed in hell. There are a lot of fucked up crimes that happen, and many many more would happen, I believe, if people were not afraid to spend eternity in hell etc.

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance that's your opinion.

It's my opinion that religion has done more harm then good? Well actually that's some what of a fact. More people have died in the name of God than any other reason since the begining of time.

On top of that....The Bible portrays God as the single worst mass murder of all time....unless you have not read the story of the mass flood. But then again that story is only beleivable by children and/or people with very very limted intelectual capacity.

it's not fact, it is your opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail I'm not entirely sure about that....... I don't believe in a religion, but I still think the world would be a shittier place if no one believed in hell. There are a lot of fucked up crimes that happen, and many many more would happen, I believe, if people were not afraid to spend eternity in hell etc.

So you beleive in dualism? Good vs Evil?

I don;t beleive in hell , yet i have never hurt another human being, animal or commited any major crimes against my society.....people with knowledge do not commmit crimes...people that are ignorant do...has nothing do with religion.

You said it perfectly...people beleive out of FEAR.

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance it's not fact, it is your opinion.

No thats a fact....but you are too blinded.....

Inquisition
Witch Hunts
Noahs Flood
Holocaust
Crusades
Cults
Mass Suicides
September 11th
etc
etc

are all because of RELIGION.....the list can go on for pages.

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 On top of that....The Bible portrays God as the single worst mass murder of all time....unless you have not read the story of the mass flood. But then again that story is only beleivable by children and/or people with very very limted intelectual capacity.

THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN SO THAT PEOPLE BACK THEN COULD COMPREHEND IT PEOPLE BACK THEN DIDNT HAVE SCIENTIFIC DEGREES SO INSTEAD OF EXPLAINING HOW THE EARTH WAS BY THE BIG BANG THEY SAY IT WAS CREATED IN 7 DAYS AND THEY EAT RIBS AND SHIT.

quote:

then again that story is only beleivable by children and/or people with very very limted intelectual capacity.

THATS WHAT I SAID ABOUT TIESTO MIX CDS AHAHAHAHAHAHA BURN YEDAH AHAHAHAHAH YEAH AND SANDER TOO YEAH AND EVERYBODY ELSE YEAHAHAHAHAHAHA AND SASHA AJAHAHAJA

ROCK AND ROOLL MCDONALD

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 So you beleive in dualism? Good vs Evil? I don;t beleive in hell , yes i have never hurt another human being, animal or commited any major crimes against my society.....people with knowledge do not commmit crimes...people that are ignorant do...has nothing do with religion. You said it perfectly...people beleive out of FEAR.

no no no. I don't. But that's what keeps people from doing crimes and shit. I can have good morals without religion

quote:

Originally posted by beats and beeps THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN SO THAT PEOPLE BACK THEN COULD COMPREHEND IT PEOPLE BACK THEN DIDNT HAVE SCIENTIFIC DEGREES SO INSTEAD OF EXPLAINING HOW THE EARTH WAS BY THE BIG BANG THEY SAY IT WAS CREATED IN 7 DAYS AND THEY EAT RIBS AND SHIT.

So then we should continue to beleive nonsense written by uneducated people who lived in times that have no bareing on todays world?

quote:

Originally posted by beats and beeps THATS WHAT I SAID ABOUT TIESTO MIX CDS AHAHAHAHAHAHA BURN YEDAH AHAHAHAHAH YEAH AND SANDER TOO YEAH AND EVERYBODY ELSE YEAHAHAHAHAHAHA AND SASHA AJAHAHAJA ROCK AND ROOLL MCDONALD

Personal attack? Did i touch a religous nerve?

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 No thats a fact....but you are too blinded..... Inquisition Witch Hunts Noahs Flood Holocaust Crusades Cults Mass Suicides September 11th etc etc are all because of RELIGION.....the list can go on for pages.

PEOPLE DO THAT SHIT THEY USE RELIGION AS AN EXCUSE YOU GOD DAMN IDIOT, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU THEY USE RELIGION AS AN EXCUSE FOR WAR DURING THE CRUSADES THEY WANTED TO TAKE OVER SHIT ANYWAYS, THEY JUST USE RELIGION AS AN EXCUSE.

PEOPLE IN IRAQ WANT TO KILL AMERICANS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO. THEY USE RELIGION AS ONE OF THE EXCUSES.

YOU IDIOT FACE ILL KICK YOU ASS YOU HEAR ME YEAH THATS RIGHT UGLY FACE. CRACKED TOE NAIL MAN.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail no no no. I don't. But that's what keeps people from doing crimes and shit. I can have good morals without religion

lol oh ok

quote:

Originally posted by beats and beeps PEOPLE DO THAT SHIT THEY USE RELIGION AS AN EXCUSE YOU GOD DAMN IDIOT, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU THEY USE RELIGION AS AN EXCUSE FOR WAR DURING THE CRUSADES THEY WANTED TO TAKE OVER SHIT ANYWAYS, THEY JUST USE RELIGION AS AN EXCUSE. PEOPLE IN IRAQ WANT TO KILL AMERICANS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO. THEY USE RELIGION AS ONE OF THE EXCUSES. YOU IDIOT FACE ILL KICK YOU ASS YOU HEAR ME YEAH THATS RIGHT UGLY FACE. CRACKED TOE NAIL MAN.

oh boy....you are a wack job...i wont even bother.

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 Personal attack? Did i touch a religous nerve?

NO YOU TOUCHED A YOURE AN IDIOT NERVE.

IM AN ATHIEST BUT I RESPECT RELIGIONS BECAUSE AT LEAST THEY GIVE STUPID PEOPLE A SENSE OF MORALS WHEN THEY WOULD NOT OTHERWISE HAVE THEM. I THINK THE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE FALSE FOR THE MOST PART, BUT THE MAJORITY OF THEM ALSO TEACH BASIC LESSONS THAT ARE GOOD FOR HUMANITY. THERE ARE ALOT OF STUPID PEOPLE IN THE WORLD SOME OF THEM NEED RELIGION TO STAY PROPER.

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 oh boy....you are a wack job...i wont even bother.

YEAH I SURE AM LOOK AT ME I TYPE IN CAPS AND DONT USE PERIODS OHHHHHHH SCARES YOU RIGHT AWAY. YOU HAVE FUCKING NUMBERS ON THE END OF YOUR NAME.

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 No thats a fact....but you are too blinded..... Inquisition Witch Hunts Noahs Flood Holocaust Crusades Cults Mass Suicides September 11th etc etc are all because of RELIGION.....the list can go on for pages.

but why blame Christians for all of it, that's my point. Why paint religion with such a broad stroke and you can't blame it for all the evil that happens. I think people with religion have a more balanced life and they tend to treat people better.

While I'm on about it

Let's go down the list (can we blame religion for it?)

The Holocaust was hatred from the WWI Germans directed at who they blamed for the loss and that was the Jews. It was hatred, not religion imo, yes the jews were a religion but 10 million soviets died as a result and they were not all of the same religion

Sept 11th - wackos believing differently was really religion?

Noah's Flood was caused by God because of evil people, not religion.

Witch Hunts was basically people getting together and trying to stamp out witches

I'm basically saying you cannot blame religion for everything, it is dull and narrow minded and we have different religions. So stop being narrow minded and trying to blame every wrong with the world in history on religion. If people loved one another and had more respect, crime would be down substantially and the world would be a better place.

quote:

Originally posted by beats and beeps NO YOU TOUCHED A YOURE AN IDIOT NERVE. IM AN ATHIEST BUT I RESPECT RELIGIONS BECAUSE AT LEAST THEY GIVE STUPID PEOPLE A SENSE OF MORALS WHEN THEY WOULD NOT OTHERWISE HAVE THEM. I THINK THE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE FALSE FOR THE MOST PART, BUT THE MAJORITY OF THEM ALSO TEACH BASIC LESSONS THAT ARE GOOD FOR HUMANITY. THERE ARE ALOT OF STUPID PEOPLE IN THE WORLD SOME OF THEM NEED RELIGION TO STAY PROPER.

No they need to stand up on their 2 feet and stop whimpering to some made up anthropomorphic bearded man in the sky.

I honestly question the mental sanity of some religious in the 21st century.

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance but why blame Christians for all of it, that's my point.

he didn't...

quote:

Witch Hunts was basically people getting together and trying to stamp out witches

that's funny for some reason

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance but why blame Christians for all of it, that's my point. Why paint religion with such a broad stroke and you can't blame it for all the evil that happens.

no no no...i dont...i blame pretty much all religions...except for Taoism.

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance I think people with religion have a more balanced life and they tend to treat people better.

There is zero evidence of someone leading a more balanced or moral life then a non religous person...thats ludicrous...there beleif is a placebo.

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance While I'm on about it Let's go down the list (can we blame religion for it?) The Holocaust was hatred from the WWI Germans directed at who they blamed for the loss and that was the Jews. It was hatred, not religion imo, yes the jews were a religion but 10 million soviets died as a result and they were not all of the same religion

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." 1

- Adolf Hitler, from Mein Kampf

enough said on that...

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance Sept 11th - wackos believing differently was really religion?

they beleived Allah would award them....with no Allah would they of still done it? Probally not....

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance Noah's Flood was caused by God because of evil people, not religion.

God = religion.....so a religous figure mass murdered countless people...WOMEN and CHILDREN...who were innocent.

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance Witch Hunts was basically people getting together and trying to stamp out witches

why? cus they thought they were evil...hence religion.

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance I'm basically saying you cannot blame religion for everything, it is dull and narrow minded and we have different religions. So stop being narrow minded and trying to blame every wrong with the world in history on religion. If people loved one another and had more respect, crime would be down substantially and the world would be a better place.

Like i said...religion does SOME good...but the good it does would probally done without religion....i do not blame everything on religion...i just think it is fear driven nonsense for people to TRY and explain why they are here on earth.

Side note...
More people in prisons are Christians then atheists or secular humanists (which i am)

GEORGE CARLIN...

"I want you to know, when it comes to believing in god- I really tried. I really really tried. I tried to believe that there is a god who created each one of us in his own image and likeness, loves us very much and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize...something is FUCKED-UP. Something is WRONG here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is NOT good work. If this is the best god can do, I am NOT impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently run universe, this guy would have been out on his all-powerful-ass a long time ago."

Trillions and trillions of prayers every day asking and begging and pleading for favors. �Do this� �Gimme that� �I want a new car� �I want a better job�. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday. And I say fine, pray for anything you want. Pray for anything. But...what about the divine plan? Remember that? The divine plan. Long time ago god made a divine plan. Gave it a lot of thought. Decided it was a good plan. Put it into practice. And for billion and billions of years the divine plan has been doing just fine. Now you come along and pray for something. Well, suppose the thing you want
isn't in god's divine plan. What do you want him to do? Change his plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a divine plan. What's the use of being god if every run-down schmuck with a two dollar prayer book
can come along and fuck up your plan? And here's something else, another problem you might have; suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? �Well it's god's will. God's will be done.� Fine, but if it gods will and he's going to do whatever he wants to anyway; why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me. Couldn't you just skip the praying part and get right to his will?"

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 I honestly question the mental sanity of some religious in the 21st century.

ITS NICE SOMEONE WHO FAILS TO USE PROPER GRAMMER IN MUSIC DISCUSSION CAN ATTEMPT TO HOLD UP A PROPER ARGUEMENT IN COR.

SUCH AN INTELLECT YOU HAVE BECOME TIESTO_14! WE ALL KNOW THAT PUTTING DOWN RELIGIOUS BELEIFS IS SO AHEAD OF YOUR TIME! JESUS CHRIST, LOOK AT YOU, THOUSANDS OF 13 YEAR OLD KIDS WITH DYED BLACK HAIR, ARE FOLLOWING IN YOUR FOOTSTEPS IN THEIR LIVEJOURNALS RIGHT NOW. OH WHAT AN AMAZING REVOLUTION YOU HAVE CREATED.

QUESTIONING THE VALUE OF RELIGOUS BELEIFS!

LOOK AT THIS GUY GO!

WHAT A TRAILBLAZER.



























See, what any smart athiest does, is accept that people have religous beleifs, and understand the reasoning behind it. There are many positive values to religion. Along with many negatives. Religion has been a part of our society for so long, and it is slowly dying out. Is this a bad thing? No, assuming people become more responsible as religion fades out.

The problem is they arent. Rather than people trading religious scare mongering beleifs, for faith in mankind, and the well being of humanity through morals, you will find that a large majority of athiests are idiots, with no morals. These are the kind of people who need religion. Until mankind is ready to act in a responsible manner without a spiritual gun pointed to their head, religion is vital.

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 GEORGE CARLIN..will?"

wow, nice read

quote:

Originally posted by beats and beeps See, what any smart athiest does, is accept that people have religous beleifs, and understand the reasoning behind it. There are many positive values to religion. Along with many negatives. Religion has been a part of our society for so long, and it is slowly dying out. Is this a bad thing? No, assuming people become more responsible as religion fades out. The problem is they arent. Rather than people trading religios scare mongering beleifs, for faith in mankind, and the well being of humanity through morals, you will find that a large majority of athiests are idiots, with no morals. These are the kind of people who need religion. Until mankind is ready to act in a responsible manner without a spiritual gun pointed to their head, religion is vital.

Thats all fine and dandy...but i am not an atheist

I am a Secular Humanist bordering Deism.

And what religous site did u pull that from?

Propoganda

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail wow, nice read

you gotta seem him live to really enjoy it....he has DVDs out...the man is hillarious.

GEORGRE CARLIN


"In the Bullshit Department, a businessman can't hold a candle to a clergyman. 'Cause I gotta tell you the truth, folks. When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims: religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told.

Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you.

He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!"

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