quote:

Originally posted by Slylee i know what u mean about the ritalin abt (DAMNIT! every time i write ur name i have to go check that it's ABT and not ATB...LOL) anyway! when girls have add, it's a bit different. i was definately a hyper active child...always runnin around and talkin all the time. but as i got older the opposite started to happen. i was just always day dreaming and forgetting stuff. i was always in a "zone". ppl would be talking to me and after they were done, i'd be like, "wait, so WHAT did u just say??" hahah basically i come off as an air head but im really not. i am highly intelligent, i just have to apply myself (as is the case for EVERYONE w/ add) im sure it's annoying to other ppl. my dad can always tell when im not listening to him and he'll be like, "YOOUU WHOOO JAMIEEE!" anway, i tried the ritalin and it DOES make you concentrate better, BUT...i felt that it made me hyper. it was weird. i was smoking like a pack of cigs a day when i was on it and it would get me kind of nervous. it's like mild speed (why do think these moron kids snort the stuff!) i read up on the side effects of ritalin and the most common one is nervousness. now the LAST thing i need to feel is nervousness, cuz i feel that way already without it. i have some kind of anxiety disorder i think...my stomach is always in knots and i've had several actual pannick attacks in the last few months. i have an appt. w/ a shrink on thurs to talk about that and maybe get on some xanax. so i that is why i try to stay away from ritalin. i try to use more natural methods. gonna seem cheesy, but oh well. i am going to sign up for yoga classes this week and i also take herbs like ginseng and ginko every morning. it also helps to eat right and have a regular sleeping schedule. eat lots of carbs (they give you more energy) and try working out or going for walks. they help you clear your mind. every day i just take my dog and a tennis ball out to this grassy area and play with him and chill there for like a half hour and and just THINK! i love to just think about the dumbest shit, it's fun...lol anyway, set a time aside for you to think that way u can focus on studying after u've had ur "time". maybe it'll work, i dunno.... btw, i am very impressed that you all are sharing your experiences and not putting on this front. i think that is really cool...most ppl are ashamed of having that sort of problem, and all of us, obviously aren't

I was just like you when i was a child , i was extremely hyper active , always talking and playing soccer every single day ... but right after the puberty , i completely changed , i wasn't the same person at all , i was almost scared by everything (i still remember i couldn't go out of my house just like the others because i was scared to death of getting agressed by a thief or something) , i wasn't interested at all to make new friends or even hang out with my current friends , it was just weird . So i went and see a doctor , he gave me some Paxil , and a month later i felt really better , just to tell you that these kind of drugs DO work , and that if u feel like ur too happy or something , it's just that u are back to ur normal state that's all

yea an-

LOOK AT THE LITTLE BUNNY!

quote:

Originally posted by mr_sax yea an- LOOK AT THE LITTLE BUNNY!

oooo-kay...lay off the acid, bubby.

wow, thx for all the feedback peeps! Much appreciated! bad news though....ive tried just about all your suggestions (except ritalin, :P)...n im still unmotivated....how tha hell do i still have a 3.8 gpa (w/ three AP classes)? hmmm, i need some help lol

im out....

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee i know what u mean about the ritalin abt (DAMNIT! every time i write ur name i have to go check that it's ABT and not ATB...LOL) anyway! when girls have add, it's a bit different. i was definately a hyper active child...always runnin around and talkin all the time. but as i got older the opposite started to happen. i was just always day dreaming and forgetting stuff. i was always in a "zone". ppl would be talking to me and after they were done, i'd be like, "wait, so WHAT did u just say??" hahah basically i come off as an air head but im really not. i am highly intelligent, i just have to apply myself (as is the case for EVERYONE w/ add) im sure it's annoying to other ppl. my dad can always tell when im not listening to him and he'll be like, "YOOUU WHOOO JAMIEEE!" anway, i tried the ritalin and it DOES make you concentrate better, BUT...i felt that it made me hyper. it was weird. i was smoking like a pack of cigs a day when i was on it and it would get me kind of nervous. it's like mild speed (why do think these moron kids snort the stuff!) i read up on the side effects of ritalin and the most common one is nervousness. now the LAST thing i need to feel is nervousness, cuz i feel that way already without it. i have some kind of anxiety disorder i think...my stomach is always in knots and i've had several actual pannick attacks in the last few months. i have an appt. w/ a shrink on thurs to talk about that and maybe get on some xanax. so i that is why i try to stay away from ritalin. i try to use more natural methods. gonna seem cheesy, but oh well. i am going to sign up for yoga classes this week and i also take herbs like ginseng and ginko every morning. it also helps to eat right and have a regular sleeping schedule. eat lots of carbs (they give you more energy) and try working out or going for walks. they help you clear your mind. every day i just take my dog and a tennis ball out to this grassy area and play with him and chill there for like a half hour and and just THINK! i love to just think about the dumbest shit, it's fun...lol anyway, set a time aside for you to think that way u can focus on studying after u've had ur "time". maybe it'll work, i dunno.... btw, i am very impressed that you all are sharing your experiences and not putting on this front. i think that is really cool...most ppl are ashamed of having that sort of problem, and all of us, obviously aren't

don't overdo the ginko and ginseng. IF you get nervous and get an upset stomach (like before exams - i used to get this bad when i was at school)try ginger: you can just chew on it, but it tastes like soap so you can get dried and powdered ginger in capsules... btw its also good for motion sickness (at least as effective as conventional drugs apparently).
Yoga and Tai Chi (or any form of Chi Gung) are good, cos they help you know your body/mind and control them yourself rather than relying on drugs/herbs if you know what i mean.

quote:

Originally posted by astroboy don't overdo the ginko and ginseng. IF you get nervous and get an upset stomach (like before exams - i used to get this bad when i was at school)try ginger: you can just chew on it, but it tastes like soap so you can get dried and powdered ginger in capsules... btw its also good for motion sickness (at least as effective as conventional drugs apparently). Yoga and Tai Chi (or any form of Chi Gung) are good, cos they help you know your body/mind and control them yourself rather than relying on drugs/herbs if you know what i mean.

thx for the info i dont really like ginger though...they serve it w/ sushi to get rid of the taste when u have diff kinds of it

when I was in highschool and had something I HAD to do I'd usually put it off until the very last minute and then at 10pm the night before it was due make myself a big batch of chocolate fudge, sit down and do it. My reward was that I got to eat all that fudge and the next day on top of being tired from staying up until 5,6 or something not going to bed at all, I was so sick from eating the whole batch of fudge that I usually just dropped my assignment off and went straight back home to bed....no questions asked cause I looked like hell hehe

if you're a fudge fan, pm me, I'll give you the recipe mmmmmm good!!!

-bug_bite

p.s.
this is not a good resolution if you have an exam to study for...exams and sick from fudge do not mix well haha

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic ABT: Apparently there's one thing you *do* enjoy: Writing. With all those never-ending posts here, your ability to get worked up on just about every single subject and the way you back up your opinions with solid arguments, you ought to pursue a carreer in jounalism, authoring or politics. IMO.

Okay I know I just posted a reply to the original thread but I've got to reply to this and say something to you all...

I, like ABT, have finished highschool and just basically fucked around with my life. I have student debt because I went to school and hated it and my student debt is WAY higher than it should be because I was careless and just spent spent spent...not to mention I have been bumping around from job to job for a while. I had a number of really good jobs because I'm good at whatever I try (working for a bank, working for an isp, working for a university) but I get bored quickly. It's gotten to the point where no good jobs will hire me because I'm a risk, I move around too much, and so I'm working in food service which I really despise, and making barely enough money to make my loan payments each month.

The thing is though, I know I want to go to school and after my last failed attempt I decided I wan't going back unless I honestly wanted to take the program because that was the only way I knew I would stick with it. It has to be something that not only interests me but that I want so badly that I look forward to going to school because I know myself and I can't do it if I am bored.

So what did I do? Well I just sorta sat on my ass and did some reading and I eventually found a program that I want really badly, and I think that's what you should do ABT. You have to ask yourself which is more important in your life, enjoying your work or making lots of money. I know people that have struggled their whole life with money but as much as they bitch they're happy...they're doing what they want to do. That's the key. If you honestly pursue topics which interest you, topics which you want to educate yourself about, then everything else will just come over time. (there is a 2 year waiting list for my program too so by the time I get in there I am going to want it so badly haha)

And if that doesn't work, then pick something you really want. I really really want to build my own home and the only way I'm going to do that is by working hard. It may be hell now but I'd rather live 5 years of hell in school than 50 more thinking "why didn't I just go do it? why am I still sitting here in this crappy cheap apartment because I was afraid of the commitment when I could be sitting somewhere I actually want to be?!?!"

I mean, when I got out of school 4 years seemed like a long time to be in school and I was afraid of the commitment...if I had only gone and stuck with it, I'd be done in a couple months, and believe me, now I know 4 years is child's play in the grand scheme of things and I'm ready to just buckle down and get on with my life.

-bug_bite

quote:

Originally posted by bug_bite Okay I know I just posted a reply to the original thread but I've got to reply to this and say something to you all... I, like ABT, have finished highschool and just basically fucked around with my life. I have student debt because I went to school and hated it and my student debt is WAY higher than it should be because I was careless and just spent spent spent...not to mention I have been bumping around from job to job for a while. I had a number of really good jobs because I'm good at whatever I try (working for a bank, working for an isp, working for a university) but I get bored quickly. It's gotten to the point where no good jobs will hire me because I'm a risk, I move around too much, and so I'm working in food service which I really despise, and making barely enough money to make my loan payments each month. The thing is though, I know I want to go to school and after my last failed attempt I decided I wan't going back unless I honestly wanted to take the program because that was the only way I knew I would stick with it. It has to be something that not only interests me but that I want so badly that I look forward to going to school because I know myself and I can't do it if I am bored.

cool bug_bite , that is the EXACT same thing i did and problem i am dealing with...... the only thing is i don't know what i want to do. I wanted to try and join the Air Force or something, something to do to pass the life away, you know? getting kinda boring. I really like computers and stuff, but it seems like no matter how much you learn, there are still a million 10 year olds out there who know more than you.... plus that job market is so volatile - this one friend of mine (a real computer whiz), worked for this networking company and he was making good money- now they went under and he can't find another job...... that sucks!

so..... dunno.

But Brandon, d00d, if you are apathetic, but STILL getting a 3.8 GPA WITH AP classes, then i would say you are pretty well off..... don't sweat it. just keep goin the way you are.... almost done!

-ABT-

PHACK!

This is phacking twice my post got lost!! GGGGRRRRR!!!

Ah, screw it.. I was going to make a contribution by adding graphoanalysis into the picture but this post-submit is *bitching* at me.

So unless someone (uh) could motivate me to write it again the third time, give me shout!


ARGH!
u4ea <-- busy scribbling

pleeease u4ea post up your post...lol
you are always posting significant and worthy posts, they're interesting to read...helpful n intelligent too!

quote:

Originally posted by plastikE pleeease u4ea post up your post...lol you are always posting significant and worthy posts, they're interesting to read...helpful n intelligent too!

Ahah.. Guess someone IS motivated to ask me. Ok, right now, I am busy so I have not the time to put some thought into this. Just bare with me, and I'll get back to you.

When I do, I'll give you the basics of graphoanalysis (science of analyzing handwriting) and gestalt (right-brain) psychology. Then I'll give you some suggestions for you to try. Though, my suggestions are not the usual run-of-the-mill advice. Then again, nothing normal usually comes out of my mouth anyways.. ahah


Gimme a few days.
u:[s]

School

ABT said:

quote:

I'm not stressing about it though. As everyone else said, NOT stressing about it is the key. That's why i'm not depressed or anything. you just got to shrug it off and say "f#ck it!! I'll live each day at a time, and do what i have to do!" that works in the chillax department. And like was mentioned earlier, when you get projects, if you do the bulk of them the DAY they are assigned, you feel so good about yourself the next 2 weeks until its due. It feels like a giant weight is off your shoulders. ....... Man i miss that feeling.

Ok, now I understand where you're coming from previous threads and here. We have grown to realize we must have a purpose in our life. Without it, we're nothing but dust particles, right? I guess that is the dilemma we all must face onetime or another in our lives. Which is why I always admire the wayward souls of Tao who practice simple living, wu wei. An ancient wisdom of purposeless existence that could bring so much happiness, it defies the modern times of techie societies.

And there was that time for me when I grew absolutely tired of mastering a purpose for my life and fulfill the expectations as I am obligated to. From tiredness, I withdrew into myself; pierce inward; into layers of thought until I touched the mystical and the ethereal. It was those profound moments of stillness that I realized nothing matter; not money, not love, not success, not EVEN purpose.

Just like you, though coming from a different angle, I 'miss' those days.. But I couldn't possibly sit on my ass for the rest of my life contemplating nirvana..

As for Ritalin, I can pretty much get it for free. I'm covered under healthcare, want some? :P


Graphology
...Aight, PlastiE.. Now I will discuss about 'motivation' from graphology's point of view. I don't intend to use this model to solve 'the' problem but to present how motivation can be measured in handwriting. Since my scanner is bloody not working, I cannot post any pictures. I'll just give the short and sweet version since it's difficult to convey an understanding without some visuals.

The definition of Graphoanalysis:

The study of handwriting that corresponds to the person's personality, unique characteristcs, and behavioral predictions. The way person writes tell how that individual is in the past, present, and future. You could be suffering from depression, be a pahological liar, or you are a control freak. The graphologist will detect all of these elements correctly in your handwriting style. Which is why FBI uses high-skilled Forensic Document Examiners; to testify in court trials; and to detect forgery in suspected crimes. Industrial Graphologists' vocational expertise is used in employee recruitment for employers. It is done alot in the european countries, while in North America is in its infancy.

The letter t = motivation:

This is one of the most important letters employers/graphoanalysts look at to determined the suitability of an employee candidate. This letter is the enthusiasm meter, the amount of juice and stamina you got to carry out your goals, responsibilities and tasks. It determines how driven and how focused you are in face of obstacles and adversity.

Some attributes (above-average to stellar quality) of t formations:

1. The vertical stem is the same length of other upperzone-lowercase letters like; h, k, l, f, d, b.

2. Placement of the t's cross-bar is higher (ascending) than the half-length of the vertical stem.

3. Placement of the cross-bar rests right on the top of the vertical stem.

4. The left side of the cross-bar can be knotted (small loop).

5. The cross-bar is straight.

6. The cross-bar's length is longer than the half-length of the vertical stem.

7. The cross-bar is slanted upwards.


The basic meanings of these attributes:

1: Balance. If the vertical stem is distinctly higher, too idealistic and egotistical. Distinctly lower, low self-esteem and self-confidence.

2: Ascending. Strive to reach higher goals and fulfillment.

3: On top. Not an idealistic dreamer but a doer (pragmatist).

4: Loop. tenacious attitude, thoroughly follow through until the objective is complete.

5: Straight. Will power is sustained and does not lose it's strength. When the t-bar is not straight but concave or convex, will power is not being sustained.

6: Longer. The longer the more sustained will power one has.

7: Upwards. Enthusiastic nature, never pessimistic for long.

Here's a sample of Cary Grant's t formations (some look like captials):


This is not an exhaustive list. There many more variables to compare, but it'll take way too long to explain. I don't even consider the above explanations are enough, but it is sufficient for now. I could write an essay on just this letter alone. Just remember:

This 'power' letter gives a discrete indication of the person's motivational power,
Is only one part of the whole picture in handwriting, and
**Accordingly modifies/supports other formations (letters, strokes, connections, pressure).

That wraps it up for grapho...


Gestalt Therapy [Psychology]
This is a field in psychotherapy that specializes in creative problem-solving and accessing the auxillary hemisphere of the brain, the right. The hemispheres are broken down to two sides of dominants:

Left Side:
Analytical
Logical
Verbal
Mathematical
Sequential
Intellectual
Lineal thinking
Details (Parts)

Right Side:
Experimental
Intuitive
Perceptual
Geometric
Spatial
Mystical
Patterned thinking
Gestalt (wholes)



Your handedness will fall under four principles of cerebral dominance:

1. 97% of Right-Handed people are Left-brained.
2. 3% of Right-Handed people are Right-brained.
3. 60% of Left-Handed people are Left-brained.
4. 40$ of Left-Handed people are Right-brained.


Suggestions
Your hands are cross-linked with the hemispheres and your handwriting is indicative of your character -- synaptic firings happening in your brain. You see the connection I'm making?

What will happen if you pick up a pen or pencil and started to write with your non-dominant hand (I presume your left)? Per chance, you will be able to step out of that old 'thinking box' for a few moments and discover new 'insights' to your problem. Though, this is no miracle fix or gimmick. What I suggest takes time in days, weeks, and even months. The ideas of writing with your non-dominant hand are:

1. Allow the Yin, the subconscious side of yourself to emerge and speak on paper. Kinda like a game of (ahaha) talking to yourself, keeping a journal.

2. Allow yourself 'quiet' time and space to reflect, away from 'noise.'

If you do try this, use 'unlined' paper, set a schedule, and use progressive times (ie: 10, 15, 30, 45 minute sessions). If you feel kiddish, use crayons and pencil crayons. It was meant to be creative and hopefully fun. Heck, laugh at the chicken scribbles you doing with the left hand! ..YOu can also draw, it's recommended.

You can also try using the left hand for practice: picking up things, using forks and spoons to eat with, brushing your teeth.

The most difficult to try is: Mirror writing. Using either the left or right hand to write from left to right, backwards. The symbolic psychology behind all this is the order of how writing is supposed to be done is 'linear', has precepts . Hence, you're attempting to break this pattern ingrained in your life by left-handed writing, left-handed use, and mirror writing.

Sooo the 'whole' premise of my points is to address problem-solving by working around it, not directly at it. Following these suggestions, you'll have to go through the stages of:

1. Commitment -- self-discipline, no matter how stupid it looks, you keep going
2. Gestation -- resistence will happen, surrender rational control, stop trying to figure it out
3. Breakthrough -- the flash of insight, realization of the answer.

BTW - I should mention Ghandi and Leonardo Di Vinci wrote backwards and were ambidextrous writers.


Questions?


KtP
u:[s]

Editing.. editing.. ARGH! Done.

Hey u4ea, I found that last post extremely interesting. Could you suggest some books for me to read if I wanna learn more about this?

Yeah, interesting stuff.

The only problem I have with graphology (from what little I know of the subject - namely a book my parents own, god knows why, called "Handwriting analysis" by some chap called Chris Morgan..... there's a book for you astroboy ) is that handwriting traits are often developed more from what you have been taught in school with regards to the style, form, conventions and whatnot of handwriting, rather than because of your latent personality type.

For instance, my class, in grade 4, was taught, by our teacher, to use "loops" in our conjoined handwriting style, where as the other two grade 4 classes were never taught this way. Thus, the majority of my class ended up using loops in everyday handwriting (as I still do today) whereas few - if any - of the kids from the other classes ended up using this style.

Now, in this book I'm mentioned before, it uses the preponderance and style of loops - or lack thereof - as ways to determine your sensibility, pragmatism and sexual drive (in the lower zone - y, g, p, q etc) or your intelligence, imagination and enthusiasm in the upper zones (h, k, l, b etc.). Also, the use of loops (particularly pronounced or large loops) demonstrate flair or creativity. Now, taking this in mind, how can you possibly apply these techniques the those who have been made to incorporate them into their writing style (in my case) or those who have never been taught how to incorporate them in the first place (as with the other grade 4 classes)?

There are other similar objections I have to graphology as a psycholanalytical tool (which I lack the motivation to go into right now - excuse the pun), though, having said that, I think it can, when applied loosely, give some limited insight into certain personality traits.

For instance, when I first flicked through this book (a couple of years ago) one thing that really stuck with me was how the slant of the handwriting style can be used to infer psycological orientation. If, in the writings of a right-handed person, the slant of the writing is to the left then it implies introverted tendancies, if it slants to the right then it implies extroverted tendencies. The differing degrees of the slant (or the severity of the slant) determines just how strong one's psychological orientation is. Since I read that, I have looked at the writing styles of my friends, and it does ring true that the more conservative of them do slant their handwriting to the left, whereas the more extroverted ones slant it to the right. For whatever reason this may be, it does seem to more or less ring true time and time again, which has never failed to impress me.

Similarly, as friends are supposed to have common interests - be similar people - I do notice that many of my friends, particularly the ones I am close to, have very similar styles. My best friend, for instance, has a remarkably similar writing style: noticably slanted to the right, short, tight loops in both the upper and lower zones, tight, compact lettering and an overall flowing style. It may seem like bollocks, but even before I knew what graphology was, I'd noticed the similarity in the way we write.

So yeah, to cut a long story short, I think that graphology can offer some useful insights into general personaility traits (if we take it from the Jungian perspective, we can possibly ascertain psychological orientation and the dominant and inferior personality types from the four categories) but I think to use graphology as a specific analytical tool - in the Freudian sense of all actions being governed by the super-ego to the extent where all actions are deliberate psychological reactions to any given stimulous - is where it begins to grasp at straws somewhat.

Nonetheless, it's all very interesting.

My point? None really.

Carry on then.

my brain is full:P

quote:

Originally posted by astroboy Hey u4ea, I found that last post extremely interesting. Could you suggest some books for me to read if I wanna learn more about this?

Good question! My knowledge and understanding has been from gathering, disseminating, and applying information I thought were right and were measurable. So I do not have any specific books or primers to give you. You could just go to your public library and do a keyword search on: Graphology.

If you're ambitious and have spare time, you could take correspondence from the likes of www.igas.com or www.karohs.com. This is the best and fastest way to learn, abeit more expensive approach.

quote:

The only problem I have with graphology (from what little I know of the subject - namely a book my parents own, god knows why, called "Handwriting analysis" by some chap called Chris Morgan..... there's a book for you astroboy ) is that handwriting traits are often developed more from what you have been taught in school with regards to the style, form, conventions and whatnot of handwriting, rather than because of your latent personality type.

Problem with the author's opinions or graphology? I disagree with the author's 'assessment'.

quote:

For instance, my class, in grade 4, was taught, by our teacher, to use "loops" in our conjoined handwriting style, where as the other two grade 4 classes were never taught this way. Thus, the majority of my class ended up using loops in everyday handwriting (as I still do today) whereas few - if any - of the kids from the other classes ended up using this style. Now, in this book I'm mentioned before, it uses the preponderance and style of loops - or lack thereof - as ways to determine your sensibility, pragmatism and sexual drive (in the lower zone - y, g, p, q etc) or your intelligence, imagination and enthusiasm in the upper zones (h, k, l, b etc.). Also, the use of loops (particularly pronounced or large loops) demonstrate flair or creativity. Now, taking this in mind, how can you possibly apply these techniques the those who have been made to incorporate them into their writing style (in my case) or those who have never been taught how to incorporate them in the first place (as with the other grade 4 classes)?

Are you asking me the question? I'll assume you are for now..

Yes, no doubt your school system used a certain copybook style for the *baseline* of developing writing skills and fine psycho-motor skills of the hand[s]. Over the period of time from elementary to high school, the person's handwriting will either conform (various degrees) to the *baseline* or deviate (originality) due to strong personal identity and psychological inclinations.

Your account is based solely on yourself? So I'm not sure how you could *currently* know your classmates back then and the other class would still conform or not to the copybook [loops]?

For the loops, that's just one piece of the puzzle, and it is not a fixed characteristic. The technique:

1. Has to take into account of the age, sex, schooling, and handedness to better determined how mutable or fixed such characteristics are. Especially for young teens growing up with puberty, it would be impossible for an analyst to gauge accuracy but would be able to tell they're going through pubescent times.

2. Analyzes other aspects of the writing that would make a [loop] writer fixed or mutable; regularity, rhythmn, form level, slant, connection, and so on.

3. Progressively views samples from the same person, not just one time only.


So to answer your question: That was in grade 4. There will be drastic differences or dissimilarities from copybook once the person reaches 18+ years of age. So it does not matter what they were taught to incorporate in grade school. What matter is how much that writer has deviated. It's human nature to eventually form a personal identity from a support structure [copybook]. ie: A looped writer could gravitate to loopless writing

Further: As you say personality is latent, it is also mutable like dissipative structures I mentioned beforea long time ago. And if you say the writers follow predicates [loops] of copybook [in your case], then our presumptous identity is made up -- adapt by following subliminal precepts. I cannot compute that. If it were the case with each modern-based societies, we would all be drones.. There would be no Einsteins, no Hawkings, no Mckennas, no Teslas, no Edisons.. NO SCIENCE!! Scary, aye? :P

quote:

There are other similar objections I have to graphology as a psycholanalytical tool (which I lack the motivation to go into right now - excuse the pun), though, having said that, I think it can, when applied loosely, give some limited insight into certain personality traits

It's a measurement as opposed to classification of MBTI or Kiersey. Graphology beats any personality typing/analysis because it has more depth in:

1. Breaking down the 'whole' piece of handwriting (personality) into 'parts' and 'subparts' and puts it back together again.
2. Specifying certainty of traits and attributes (ie: sexual intincts and deviants, criminal tendencies)
3. Applications; vocational, forensics, relationships, psychotherapy, **judicial.
4. Complimenting other fields in psychology.
5. Dealing with essentials that are pertinent to the individual.

** Yep, that's right, Document Examiners' testimonial evidence is admissible in the courts of america.

Butttt.. Don't be mistaken for its capabilities being derived from a marketable product like that book you read. There's a huge difference between that book and forensics and other valid specializations of graphology. It's that misconception of this science, of the skeptics who know diddly squat, and of the charlatans that give it a bad rap. Maybe the only bad thing about graphology is consistency. There is no unified model in this science. Each country has its own pioneer and corresponding system: Germany, France, Britain, North America.

quote:

For instance, when I first flicked through this book (a couple of years ago) one thing that really stuck with me was how the slant of the handwriting style can be used to infer psycological orientation. If, in the writings of a right-handed person, the slant of the writing is to the left then it implies introverted tendancies, if it slants to the right then it implies extroverted tendencies. The differing degrees of the slant (or the severity of the slant) determines just how strong one's psychological orientation is. Since I read that, I have looked at the writing styles of my friends, and it does ring true that the more conservative of them do slant their handwriting to the left, whereas the more extroverted ones slant it to the right. For whatever reason this may be, it does seem to more or less ring true time and time again, which has never failed to impress me.

Well yes, inference of Extraversion or Introversion is based on direct observation of *layers* -- other clinical, orthodox techniques are without, based on limits with *empirical* scales (MBTI, Keirsey). For sample, the slant you mentioned is broken down further into layers:

1. Horizontal tension axis -- overall slant of writing from left to right, or left to right. (As you prescribed above)

2. Baseline axis -- the slant of your lines, sentences.

3. Inner Baseline axis -- letters', or words' slant differences in sentences.

4. Zonal axis -- the slant differences of and between your upperzone, middlezone, and lowerzone letters

5. Lead-in strokes and End strokes axis -- slant of extra strokes beginning of the letter and end of the letter

6. Connective axis -- slant of strokes connecting series of letters to form words.


My point is? The scales' depth don't go further than 1 or 2. But graphology has the ability to sift and decipher more kinks and nuances on 'orientation' if necessary.

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Similarly, as friends are supposed to have common interests - be similar people - I do notice that many of my friends, particularly the ones I am close to, have very similar styles. My best friend, for instance, has a remarkably similar writing style: noticably slanted to the right, short, tight loops in both the upper and lower zones, tight, compact lettering and an overall flowing style. It may seem like bollocks, but even before I knew what graphology was, I'd noticed the similarity in the way we write.

Any way I could take a look at both? I don't know what the heck you mean by those descriptions. Pictures does wonder for my eyes! hehe :P

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So yeah, to cut a long story short, I think that graphology can offer some useful insights into general personaility traits (if we take it from the Jungian perspective, we can possibly ascertain psychological orientation and the dominant and inferior personality types from the four categories) but I think to use graphology as a specific analytical tool - in the Freudian sense of all actions being governed by the super-ego to the extent where all actions are deliberate psychological reactions to any given stimulous - is where it begins to grasp at straws somewhat.

About grapho and freud, you may have to do some more research before you can reach some certainty on that opinion. Graphology is the instrument that has grown from Freudian/Jungian psychology -- just like MBTI or Kiersey -- except much more versatile, comprehensive, and transitive. This discipline can predict strong probabilities by comprehensive approximations, not by absolutes.

..Any author would be grasping at straws because his/her formal background would be suspect of credibility, ethics, and objectivity. It has nothing to do with 'the' science itself.. Unfortunately, I have read skeptics' articles, and so far, they don't seem to know 'that' difference. I am not pointing the finger at you, just stating an observation from other similar comments to yours. I actually find your comments congenial and forth-coming.

[RANT]I have only problems with the bunch of petards (ahaha) trying to refute almost 3 milleniums of history with a 5-minute opinion. Grr! [/RANT]

Ok, enough of my ramblings.. I hope that was educational.


KtP
u:[s]

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee my brain is full:P

Yeah, I feel I always need John Mnemonic's harddrive whenever I read Renegade's posts! ahaha

"...Where is my motivation! I'm losing my motivation! Im smoking my, INSPI-RATION!!!!!...."

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