TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- Tory Aurora MP Belinda Stronach crosses the floor to the Grits
Pages (8): « 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 »

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker As a result of this - I believe there should be a "Party Change" rule in the house. If on decides to change parties, they must have a bi-election within the riding.

I beat you to it!

hopefully the sentiment is "what a backstabber"

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 There should also be an investigation into the allegations that the Liberals have been trying to bribe conservative MPs over the past few weeks with offers such as this one.

This is business as usual in a minority government. There is absolutely nothing illegal or unethical about it. Check out the European perportional systems and you'll see this happens all the time. I'm not saying I approve, however, an "investigation" would be a waste of time and money. FYI, this is called negotiating not bribing... I negotiated a raise and an extra week vacation time when I left my former employer for my present... was that unethical?

call it what you want but its selling out democracy for party politics. It may not be illegal but it is immoral.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 It just demonstrates to me that the Liberals have learned ABSOLUTELY nothing from the sponsorship scandal except that they can probably get away with just about everything they do.

Sad but true. I never had any respect for Belinda but this was pretty low even for her. And yes, I would like to see a bi-election but all know that's not going to happen.

Her changing parties is not, undemocratic. Rather, she is reinforcing the democratic nature of parliament by conceeding to the will of the people. The people do not want an election, and her choice in switching parties reflects that. If anything, it is unrepresentative of her riding's constituents (if they wish for a vote of no-confidence against the liberal gov't).

quote:

Originally posted by AwakenedAddict Her changing parties is not, undemocratic. Rather, she is reinforcing the democratic nature of parliament by conceeding to the will of the people. The people do not want an election, and her choice in switching parties reflects that. If anything, it is unrepresentative of her riding's constituents (if they wish for a vote of no-confidence against the liberal gov't).

that's a good point.... Jay, what say you?

quote:

Originally posted by AwakenedAddict Her changing parties is not, undemocratic. Rather, she is reinforcing the democratic nature of parliament by conceeding to the will of the people. The people do not want an election, and her choice in switching parties reflects that. If anything, it is unrepresentative of her riding's constituents (if they wish for a vote of no-confidence against the liberal gov't).

the people of newmarket-aurora voted for a conservative, NOT a liberal. She should either abide by the people's electoral wishes or resign and run for re-election under a different flag.

We're seeing the unfortunate result of the CPC allying itself with the Bloc, which to me paints a worse picture of Stephen Harper's Tories than a Liberal party with some rot.

Mr. Harper was presented wonderful opportunity, something the former Reformers nor the oldschool PCs have had in a very long time, to come out ahead in this minority government by building bridges through pro-active action in an attempt to bring real change to Canada's governing machine. Instead, his party has effectively brought parliament to a screeching halt before any recommendations can be gleaned from the final products of the Gomery Inquiry, only to pluck Canadians from the summer vacations and bring them to the polls in hopes that he might gain a couple extra seats, and a firmer hold on power to do whatever it is that he wants.

I'm sorry, but if I was an average Canadian looking at how this man is apparently posturing himself, I would be turned off, no matter how disgusted I am with those Liberals allegedly involved in scandalous activities.

I wouldn't be surprised if more Tories cross the floor before too long.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 the people of newmarket-aurora voted for a conservative, NOT a liberal. She should either abide by the people's electoral wishes or resign and run for re-election under a different flag.

No, they voted for her. That is how a parliamentary system works. A Member of Parliament is elected by his constituents to do work for them in parliament that serves their needs and interests.

A member of whatever political party is not elected at the polls.

As I alluded to in my previous response, I'm almost certain that the majority of her consituents will feel the same way.

On the flipside of this, I did not elect a Liberal to the provincial legislature, however, they are still obligated to carry out business that takes into account the needs of the member's constituents, regarldess of their affiliated party's wishes.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 the people of newmarket-aurora voted for a conservative, NOT a liberal. She should either abide by the people's electoral wishes or resign and run for re-election under a different flag.

But they voted for Belinda Stronach not "Belinda Stronach on condition of her continued membership in the Conservative Party".

Additionally, Addict has a good point in that she is acting in accordance with the desires of the greatest number of Canadians (I cannot say whether or not this holds true in her riding as I have not seen any polls specific to that riding).

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 the people of newmarket-aurora voted for a conservative, NOT a liberal. She should either abide by the people's electoral wishes or resign and run for re-election under a different flag.

Yea, that's what I inferred in the comment re: being unrepresentative

quote:

Originally posted by amb_ No, they voted for her. That is how a parliamentary system works. A Member of Parliament is elected by his constituents to do work for them in parliament that serves their needs and interests. A member of whatever political party is not elected at the polls.

i know how it technically works but dont tell me that people dont mainly vote along party lines. This is why we need reform.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 i know how it technically works but dont tell me that people dont mainly vote along party lines. This is why we need reform.

then we need a perportional representational system. Trust me, if you've studied political systems as I have you would not be so eager in this regard.

quote:

Originally posted by amb_ We're seeing the unfortunate result of the CPC allying itself with the Bloc, which to me paints a worse picture of Stephen Harper's Tories than a Liberal party with some rot.

the bloc and the conservatives are not allies. Just because they are both opposed to the government does NOT make them allies. They differ on just about every other issue except that the government is corrupt and needs to be punished.

quote:

Mr. Harper was presented wonderful opportunity, something the former Reformers nor the oldschool PCs have had in a very long time, to come out ahead in this minority government by building bridges through pro-active action in an attempt to bring real change to Canada's governing machine. Instead, his party has effectively brought parliament to a screeching halt before any recommendations can be gleaned from the final products of the Gomery Inquiry, only to pluck Canadians from the summer vacations and bring them to the polls in hopes that he might gain a couple extra seats, and a firmer hold on power to do whatever it is that he wants.

no the opposition is doing its job. its job is to keep the sitting government in check. Sadly the sneaky liberals have done everything within (and beyond) its limits to stay in power and this trickery seems to be working. And sorry if canadians have to take 5 minutes out of their summer for an act of democracy. If this is truely why canadians dont want an election then it's pretty sad.

quote:

I'm sorry, but if I was an average Canadian looking at how this man is apparently posturing himself, I would be turned off, no matter how disgusted I am with those Liberals allegedly involved in scandalous activities.

how about how this woman was just bribed to cross the floor by a bunch of corrupt politicians?

quote:

I wouldn't be surprised if more Tories cross the floor before too long.

Sure if they are sell outs to comfy deals then let them go

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard then we need a perportional representational system. Trust me, if you've studied political systems as I have you would not be so eager in this regard.

my point is that no matter what the law is, the ETHICAL thing to do is resign and run again. Let the voters decide. I know there are a lot of pissed off people. My dad for one just called and told me that there is no way liberals will be getting his vote and that this woman cant be trusted. My dad voted Liberal last time.

she is now minister of human resources...

Just the person for that job. Let the scandals begin!


Belinda stronach this morning. "i am as disgusted as anybody at the arrogance of entitlement involved in the gomery inquiry"........... yeah kind of like the arrogance of entitlement that you just demonstrated? STUPID IDIOT!!

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard But they voted for Belinda Stronach not "Belinda Stronach on condition of her continued membership in the Conservative Party". Additionally, Addict has a good point in that she is acting in accordance with the desires of the greatest number of Canadians (I cannot say whether or not this holds true in her riding as I have not seen any polls specific to that riding).

You're confusing something here. Stronach was elected to represent the interests and wishes of her constituency, not the entire general population of Canada.

The MPs represent interest of ONE constituency, not entire Canada. The consensus of many constituencies then make majority if they have elected same party.

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree You're confusing something here. Stronach was elected to represent the interests and wishes of her constituency, not the entire general population of Canada. The MPs represent interest of ONE constituency, not entire Canada. The consensus of many constituencies then make majority if they have elected same party.

and im sure she will pay for backstabbing her constituency

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree You're confusing something here. Stronach was elected to represent the interests and wishes of her constituency, not the entire general population of Canada. The MPs represent interest of ONE constituency, not entire Canada. The consensus of many constituencies then make majority if they have elected same party.

I'm not confused at all, you on the otherhand are too narrow in your focus.

First, I did qualify my statement by saying I could not confirm that the popular opinion of Canadians was the same as her riding when I stated that I had not seen any polling data for her riding. I'm sure said data does not presently exist and since none of us have been in her constituency office the past few weeks we are not qulified to say whether or not she is acting in accordance with her contituents' will.

Second, while it is true that MPs are supposed to represent the will of their constituents they are also bound by an oath to the Queen that states they will represent the interests of Canada. It is up to the MP themselves to balance these two, which can often be at odds. Moreover, it should be noted that we have representatives in this country not delegates. An MP is a representative, they do not have to act according to public opinion... they are free to act according to what they believe to be in the best interest of their riding. Our recourse is to hold them accountable at the next general election.

Ms. Stronach will be judged by her constituents in the next election, it isn't until then that we'll have any indication whether or not she has the will of her constituency.

i think you people need to do something about this or stfu. arguing over this on a message board won't make any difference...

either start your own party, run for the parliament, change the rules/laws/whatever, or carry on with your lives as they are

The plain fact is that the majority of Canadians don't want an election...period.


Tell ya what....I'll run as a REALLY nice dictator

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard I'm not confused at all, you on the otherhand are too narrow in your focus. First, I did qualify my statement by saying I could not confirm that the popular opinion of Canadians was the same as her riding when I stated that I had not seen any polling data for her riding. I'm sure said data does not presently exist and since none of us have been in her constituency office the past few weeks we are not qulified to say whether or not she is acting in accordance with her contituents' will. Second, while it is true that MPs are supposed to represent the will of their constituents they are also bound by an oath to the Queen that states they will represent the interests of Canada. It is up to the MP themselves to balance these two, which can often be at odds. Moreover, it should be noted that we have representatives in this country not delegates. An MP is a representative, they do not have to act according to public opinion... they are free to act according to what they believe to be in the best interest of their riding. Our recourse is to hold them accountable at the next general election. Ms. Stronach will be judged by her constituents in the next election, it isn't until then that we'll have any indication whether or not she has the will of her constituency.

Ok. I'll buy that for two cents, even if I disagree. Though it is quite interesting way you put 'an MP is a representative, they do not have to act according to public opinion'. The question is, who is Stronach representing, if she does what she feels is best? lol

quote:

Originally posted by RobbyG. The plain fact is that the majority of Canadians don't want an election...period.

yup...how dare anyone disturb a family bbq for a pesky election.

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree Ok. I'll buy that for two cents, even if I disagree. Though it is quite interesting way you put 'an MP is a representative, they do not have to act according to public opinion'. The question is, who is Stronach representing, if she does what she feels is best? lol

That is a good question, one that will be answered by the next election I suppose.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.