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-- What does the word "dub" mean?! (like in "dub mix")
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quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur prove it.

the happy hardcore section amongst others like that is both biased & false. There are many more than '12' people producing songs for it for one. eg

DJ Vibes
Sy
Unknown
Hixxy
Breeze
Kevin Energy
Sharkey
Darren Styles
DJ Force
Charly Lownoise
Mental Theo
Paul Elstak
Slipmatt
Dougal
DJ Demo
DJ Storm
DJ Kaos
Bass D & King Mathew
Scott Brown
Vinylgroover
DJ Brisk
DJ Ham
DJ Seduction
Eruption
Rab S
Stu Allan
Marc Smith
Supreme
D-Zyne
Druid


straight away that 'fact' is disproven. maybe if you don't like it, which is obvious, fine, but at least report it as 'fact' and not opinion as there are far too many people who take this guide as a given or seriously, making it hard to properly educate them.


I also have a problem with 'Trancecore' as what you have listed is just happy hardcore, how it evolved in the 1998- date era, Trancecore itself owes a lot to 'Billy Daniel Bunter' & Rob Vandem's GBT Records label; http://www.discogs.com/label/GBT

When Trancecore evolved in the UK Hardcore scene, the DJs playing it included Billy Bunter, Ramos, Supreme etc. It's not just the happy hardcore remix of 'the theme' or whatever, it's a seperate genre in it's own rights that became popular during the 1997-8 era.

Not even starting on the totally biased 'trance' section, Epic & Dutch are all mixed up,and it would take forever to actually straighten it out.


btw - samples on hard trance, who the fuck is bean vs cyrus

I'm not trying to say it's all wrong, as there are good factual parts, but there are more & more people who read the guide, take it to be the holy trinity of truth and don't even begin to find out music in other ways. The best way to find music out is to indulge in as much of it as possible and not just read a guide. Most people pre-internet had to do just that and I think the whole fun is taken away if it's all laid out on a platter so to speak. My point ? try not to put personal bias in there, even get the genres re-written by people who actually know about them, to give a more balanced guide that may actually educate.

can anyone show me a set armin has used a dub.. he loves his cheesy lyrics

quote:

Originally posted by Ian^ the happy hardcore section amongst others like that is both biased & false. There are many more than '12' people producing songs for it for one. eg

You do realise he was joking with that comment? But there are minor errors in the guide, mainly the dates. Nothing major.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J You do realise he was joking with that comment? But there are minor errors in the guide, mainly the dates. Nothing major.

The whole guide is an error.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur My goodness, the ignorance in this threat is catastrophic. *ahem*

The gist of what you posted has already been said here though. But thanks for the history lesson. What's our homework assignment?

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J You do realise he was joking with that comment? But there are minor errors in the guide, mainly the dates. Nothing major.

maybe so, but it leads to ignorance, which again leaves us struggling to re-educate people about the truth

quote:

Originally posted by vrahnos

lol

quote:

Originally posted by Ian^ There are many more than '12' people producing

Yes, I know. That is something called "a joke". It is a humour-type thing that people without sticks up their asses like to laugh at.

Do you send letters to the creators of Itchy & Scratchy telling them that in scene 4 of episode 76 Itchy is playing Scratchy's ribs like a xylophone and he's playing different notes even though the animation frames CLEARLY show he's playing the same notes over and over again?

You're being a pedantic fucktool. Stop that.

quote:

Originally posted by Ian^ maybe if you don't like it, which is obvious, fine, but at least report it as 'fact'

I love happy hardcore, and I don't report anything unnecessary as fact on the guide (like how many artists there really are. I mean, really. Who actually gives a shit about that?). I'm accurate only as much as I feel I have to be. The rest is just thrown together to make sure you're still paying attention, because dry and factual guides are boring.

quote:

Originally posted by Ian^ there are far too many people who take this guide as a given or seriously, making it hard to properly educate them.

Well, I've been in far more contact with far more people who have been exposed to the guide than you have, and I've yet to come across a single person who actually accepts the thing as gospel. From this, I have come to the conclusion that the people you constantly worry about don't actually exist, because all of them have a head on their shoulders and can think for themselves (imagine that, eh?).

Generally, the people who see my guide fall into three camps:

--Newbies who have listened to electronic music less than 6 months or are being introduced to it through the guide.
--People who have been listening to electronic music 1-4 years.
--People who have been listening to electronic music 6+ years.

There are mild exceptions, but of the newbies, they all like my guide, take it with a grain of salt, and find it useful as a good launching point into whatever they're interested in.

Of the people who have been listening to electronic music for a long time (6+ years), they all LOVE my guide, because it is both poignant and on target with many of its observations.

Of the people who have been listening to electronic music for 1-4 years....oh, they hate it. I guess because at this stage they are still buying all the hype and DJ bullshit and are still fighting ignorance and apathy towards their music choices back home, and so haven't really accepted the fact that their music is just as stupid and fake and flawed as all the others. They see it as a personal attack on their way of life, and will go out of their way great lengths to protect it. Like...make noisy messages on web forums or something.

quote:

Originally posted by Ian^ there are more & more people who read the guide, take it to be the holy trinity of truth and don't even begin to find out music in other ways.

It's closing up on 10 million people, now. One day total was 74,000 once. In all honesty, if they take it as the holy trinity of truth, that's their own damn fault. No one said I was going to hold their hand through this.

Besides, I find what YOU PEOPLE DO to be far more damaging. At least I'm joking and everyone knows I'm joking. The shit you people let fly out of your mouths makes me cringe sometimes.

For instance: Why is everyone calling everything "electro" these days? I guess electroclash kinda started this whole trend, but the problem is there are DJs and music and people professing an affinity for electro when they have no idea what the fuck it is. Electro house. Electro Trance. Electro breaks (redundant, innit?). Electro electro electro.

But none of the new music coming out is technically electro. Electro is supposed to be robot music. Preferably robot music via a TR-808, voice boxes, and twitches and bleeps and zaps. Very 80s. It's supposed to be archaic, tinny stuff. That's why it's called electro. Also: it's great for breaking, popping and locking to. Doing the robot.

And Electro is actually FUNKY. Robot funk was one of its euphemisms. That's what kinda distanced it from the Kraftwerk sound, is the application of black sensibility and knack for a good groove.

But it seems today anyone is calling any song that has a moderately sawwave/buzzy synth patch in it electro. Case in point: Ferry Corsten - Punk. That's not fucking electro, you meatheads. You do not know what electro is if you think that is electro. Alter Ego - Rocker? Nope, not electro. It's actually Homework era French House. Benny Benassi - Satisfaction? ...I would stress to say electroclash, but not electro. More of a stylebite of Kitten and the Glitz era Felix da Housekat. That's why I've always hated that term electroclash, because people have invariably shortened it to electro, and now the term's been dragged through the mud as the hot new clubword, and no one knows what it really is anymore.

Don't call it Neo Electro either. There already is a Neo Electro: it was a mid-90s revival of old electro, and more true to form of old electro, with upgraded equipment. Global Communication's Jedi Knights LP is one of the best Neo Electro albums ever. Run, don't walk, to get it.

What's even more annoying is the same thing is happening with Deep House (there's an active thread in this very forum about this RIGHT NOW), which is what a lot of "Progressive" heads are calling it because they realize how stupid having an adjective for a genre name is. And I'm like "wait a minute, you can't call it Deep House. There already is a Deep House, and if Mark Farina were dead he'd come back from the dead to haunt you for calling your monotonous music deep house."

And you people are constantly worrying that my guide might give noobs the wrong idea? Fuck, I'm concerned with idiot tools like you and marketers and music writers giving noobs the wrong idea. It's really starting to piss me off.

By all means, if you want a factual and educational guide, knock yourself out: make your own and right my wrongs. But it won't be nearly as popular or as entertaining, for that stupid fact alone.

quote:

Originally posted by retrobyte

i wouldn't say it's flaming, more a good debate, then again the art of debating seems to have been lost, buried somewhere with futurama & homeofmusic.com

quote:

Originally posted by Ian^ i wouldn't say it's flaming, more a good debate, then again the art of debating seems to have been lost, buried somewhere with futurama & homeofmusic.com

"HE GON' GET IT!"

Point is: I could be accurate if I wanted to be. Like in this thread.

Most of the time I don't want to be. Because....well.....why?

quote:

Originally posted by nchs09 can anyone show me a set armin has used a dub.. he loves his cheesy lyrics

I think armin played' that Lil Hayden G&D Dub sometimes.

I saw Gabriel and Dresden once and they played the Duncan Sheik Dub. Fucking cock tease.

quote:

Originally posted by sym I saw Gabriel and Dresden once and they played the Duncan Sheik Dub. Fucking cock tease.

what, you don't have the vocal?

quote:

Originally posted by retrobyte what, you don't have the vocal?

I do, I have the 12".
This was in like June of 2003 or something though, and I was really liking that song at the time and wanted to hear them play it. But all they played was the Dub, which is good in it's own right, but the vocal was just my jam for a while back than. Still a good track.

quote:

Originally posted by sym I do, I have the 12". This was in like June of 2003 or something though, and I was really liking that song at the time and wanted to hear them play it. But all they played was the Dub, which is good in it's own right, but the vocal was just my jam for a while back than. Still a good track.

gotcha I agree, they're both mint!

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Point is: I could be accurate if I wanted to be. Like in this thread. Most of the time I don't want to be. Because....well.....why?

i guess imo at the end of the day, genres like hardcore get enough bashing as it is, from people who've probably never even heard any of the proper stuff involved, and ok I know the guide isn't meant to be serious, I just fear it'll make their minds up for them without being able to explore it like the previous generation had to with all music, hope u can understand that point

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Dub fiddles with resonance in sound, making it a favorite for headphone and marijuana junkies.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur For instance: Why is everyone calling everything "electro" these days? I guess electroclash kinda started this whole trend, but the problem is there are DJs and music and people professing an affinity for electro when they have no idea what the fuck it is. Electro house. Electro Trance. Electro breaks (redundant, innit?). Electro electro electro. But none of the new music coming out is technically electro. Electro is supposed to be robot music. Preferably robot music via a TR-808, voice boxes, and twitches and bleeps and zaps. Very 80s. It's supposed to be archaic, tinny stuff. That's why it's called electro. Also: it's great for breaking, popping and locking to. Doing the robot. And Electro is actually FUNKY. Robot funk was one of its euphemisms. That's what kinda distanced it from the Kraftwerk sound, is the application of black sensibility and knack for a good groove. But it seems today anyone is calling any song that has a moderately sawwave/buzzy synth patch in it electro. Case in point: Ferry Corsten - Punk. That's not fucking electro, you meatheads. You do not know what electro is if you think that is electro. Alter Ego - Rocker? Nope, not electro. It's actually Homework era French House. Benny Benassi - Satisfaction? ...I would stress to say electroclash, but not electro. More of a stylebite of Kitten and the Glitz era Felix da Housekat. That's why I've always hated that term electroclash, because people have invariably shortened it to electro, and now the term's been dragged through the mud as the hot new clubword, and no one knows what it really is anymore. Don't call it Neo Electro either. There already is a Neo Electro: it was a mid-90s revival of old electro, and more true to form of old electro, with upgraded equipment. Global Communication's Jedi Knights LP is one of the best Neo Electro albums ever. Run, don't walk, to get it.

If nothing else, you're a lazy sod Ish.

Yeah, but I'm lazy about all the right things.

You: so confident. And for what? For what? For life. So sure, so steadfast. So unyielding. Posessing the knowledge, and hiding it. Knowing the truth, or a version of the truth, and publishing it. You are a strange creature. Are we not all strange? heheheh....perhaps.

I heard 2 songs

Tilt - The World Doesnt Know ( Ozgar Can Main Mix) and the Dub Mix

What i could make out was that the dub has the same bassline as the main mix and it goes on. The main melody of the song is actually cut down and only some small samples of it make appearance in it

Some good views of others I read.. nice

I'm too lazy today to make my own comments. I'll just grab some from a reliable source that, with a little imagination, can fit to elements of this thread.

�Always in motion is the future.�

�A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.�

�Beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight.�

�I cannot teach him. The boy has no patience.�

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