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Originally posted by PutBoy 3. Music will be free. Copyleft will kill Copyright.

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Originally posted by PutBoy 1. EDM will kill hip-hop ('til it dies, maddafakka! Stupid apes...)

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Originally posted by EtherealSL

I mean really. Copyright is bad for both the artists and the consumers. And hiphop, well....

The only one who really benefits from copyright is a person who owns more cars than we own underwears.

EDM will go mainstream in the States, and then it will suck. Then we'll all have to become junglists. ; D

But seriously, the super-saw has been around for about a decade. The harpsichord was around for a century. It's a convention of the genre, just as the harpsichord was a convention of baroque music. If you don't like it, don't use it, but when most people think of "trance" today, they hear that sound. Personally, yes, I've heard it a million times, we all have- but I've heard an electric guitar just as many. And by the way, the electric guitar as we know it has been around for over four decades, and it shows no signs of disappearing. I don't hear calls to extirpate the guitar from rock, and I suppose the closest rock music has had to such a thing has been the near-abolition of solos because of their extravagant overuse in the eighties.

The super-saw is part of trance. Producers use it, get tired of it, and eventually, once they've listened to 1,000+ hours of the thing, move on to other genres. I don't think that the super-saw can be completely eliminated from trance without changing the foundations of the genre.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PutBoy
Got my wishes though:


2. As someone said, Trance will be produced by composers, I mean real ones, a new Mozart will emerge! And I will be the most famous of them all!


=)

That was me. And I'm ready to give you a run for your money. =)

lol these threads are funny
trance aint dieing its been around since before a lot of people even heard of trance.
people will always listen to trance
may it be any of the diff variations but they will listen
and it will still sell.

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Originally posted by DjGeMiNi529 lol these threads are funny trance aint dieing its been around since before a lot of people even heard of trance. people will always listen to trance may it be any of the diff variations but they will listen and it will still sell.

No shit sherlock. No one said it was dying. Its speculation as to where trance will go in the future. Yes it will sell as long as theres DJs that want to play it, any form of music will sell. Quite frankly the most interesting music I hear is for free on forums like this. Shit thats just too plain, wierd, and amature to actually get signed. It might not be the best quality stuff but its a hell of a lot more inspiring than most label releases.

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Originally posted by Axolotyl No shit sherlock. No one said it was dying. Its speculation as to where trance will go in the future. Yes it will sell as long as theres DJs that want to play it, any form of music will sell. Quite frankly the most interesting music I hear is for free on forums like this. Shit thats just too plain, wierd, and amature to actually get signed. It might not be the best quality stuff but its a hell of a lot more inspiring than most label releases.

i agree.


and the supersaw will never die. its what makes (and made) trance what it is and maybe some day there will be very few tracks with supersaw. but then everyone who likes trance and claims that supersaws are boring, will be like omg good old times... when trance was just a massive supersaw lead. oh yea i forgot. supersaw isnt original.. the plucked gay progressive-*my-ass*(they dont even know what progressive means) plucked leads are teh original shit god damit... yiiiihhaaaaaaaa

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Originally posted by Channel Surfer [QUOTE]Originally posted by PutBoy Got my wishes though: 2. As someone said, Trance will be produced by composers, I mean real ones, a new Mozart will emerge! And I will be the most famous of them all! =) That was me. And I'm ready to give you a run for your money. =)

get a clue man. you know how many people have gone an made that remark?
its not a matter of better productions in terms of technicallity, its an issue of creativity, voice, spirituality...among other things. people tend take music for granted sometimes, and sometimes too seriously (i might be crossing that boundry with the spiritual comment) :happy2...


anyway in response to the thread topic, id personally like to see trance take a much more organic stance. its gotta loose its cookie cutter, perfected sound, over-used melodies, and the plain simplicity and formation it has garnered over the years. the music just isnt human enough. i cannot relate to it. it just tends to give me this feeling that most describe as "euphoria", a feeling that i found to be false. false for me, that is. if you get your "kicks" from one genre to another, thats nothing but great. its when people are unconsciously (a better word just doesnt come to mind) buying into this music (in its strict mainstream form). i know you've all heard rants like this before, but it always comes to mind with issues resembling these. i just hate how the mainstream is at loss to continue breaking barriers and putting out risk free music. some of this is done unconsciously and unwillingly (the amount of like-sounding music that people buy into is overwhelming), and some of it is carfully planned by industry guru's and the like. OK im digging waaay to deep into this now. i always seem to post pseudo-meaningfull, but lengthy posts that seem too gauge deep into a matter. and in the end it just leaves you scrathing your head looking for a relative ending and a point to be proven, a solution to be solved. etc. ok, im droning again. its 2:33am... im listening to some old Boris Blenn tracks...

you know how it is...










i think

i really tend to drone on about things... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

quote:

Originally posted by PutBoy I mean really. Copyright is bad for both the artists and the consumers. And hiphop, well.... The only one who really benefits from copyright is a person who owns more cars than we own underwears.

what i meant was, if music was free, very talented full-time producers who just produce all day and producing IS their job, would not have any motivation to continue... good music would be hard to find if dedication isn't there


and as for rap, meh, i'm not gonna start an arguement but rap has qualities that, unfortunately, many EDM listeners will never understand and never appreciate, o wellllll

For me, like somebody said, WE are the future of trance. So we gotta start using different synths and evolve this beast. People, pull out your Prophecies, Z1s, AN1xs, Nords...hell...even old synths...be them analog or digital...all the synths that sell for less than a Virus or JP80x0...and start making new sounds. It will be a matter of time before others jump in the bandwagon. Ditch the cookie-cutter bullsh@t and produce something new...don't worry about what others think...just do it...but do it for the love of music, not for the money.

i agree on most parts here, and i thin ktrance will be uhm.. better...

i dont care if hip hop dies or any thing, as long as that super annoying sax killing funky drummer-loop abusing beyotch barbra streisand r'n'b dies out. i hate that beyonce shit... omg..

quote:

Originally posted by PutBoy Got my wishes though: 1. EDM will kill hip-hop ('til it dies, maddafakka! Stupid apes...) 2. As someone said, Trance will be produced by composers, I mean real ones, a new Mozart will emerge! And I will be the most famous of them all! 3. Music will be free. Copyleft will kill Copyright. 4. We will get more creative by the day. We will produce tunes no-one ever heard 5. Trance will go public, everybody would want it! (see point 1) That's about it though...

I really hate to quote you and use your examples, and know that I'm not flaming you at all for your opinions, but I do want to briefly comment on these before saying what I want to say.

1. Black people had a HUGE impact on the creation of dance music; the reason it was unique and not cookie-cutter boring like it is today is because they could only afford "crap" instruments, which turned out to be the god instruments of the next 20 years. I'm not fond of Hip Hop either, but don't fight the wave, ride it.

^ The reason I say this is because black people always started the best trends (JAZZ, SWING, HENDRIX, DANCE, and these days it is HIP-HOP)

2. If you write music, you just composed something. Further, the advent of faster internet connections and more powerful PCs has created a massive proliferation of digital home studios. We all have one here; it means a lot more BAD music, and also a lot more AMAZING music from people with great ideas who normally wouldn't have been so priveleged as to be able to use the instruments available today!

3. Copyright has nothing to do with something being *free*; all of my music is free, but it is also all copyright. You can't steal my tunes and make money off of them, that's what copyright is for.

4. My point in posting is in relation to what you said (People will get more creative by the day). The thing about dance/trance is that our music is limited by our (albeit awesome and powerful) synthesizers. We are at the mercy of ACCESS, waiting for them to release a hypersaw so that we can advance trance to the next level. Technology is trance, and this is why it may seem cold and unhuman to some people. Give it time, because the machines will eventually be able to produce things infinitely more human than we ever could. The future of trance will be very long lived in many different forms to come, and technology is what will dictate where and how it progresses. We are the instruments for a change.

5. I agree.

K sorry for the long post, this is a great thread though. Cheers!!

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby 1. Black people had a HUGE impact on the creation of dance music; the reason it was unique and not cookie-cutter boring like it is today is because they could only afford "crap" instruments, which turned out to be the god instruments of the next 20 years. I'm not fond of Hip Hop either, but don't fight the wave, ride it. ^ The reason I say this is because black people always started the best trends (JAZZ, SWING, HENDRIX, DANCE, and these days it is HIP-HOP)

What has race got to do with this? I'm assuming your crediting peoples of certain races to the development of EDM.

Anyway, EDM was started by Kraftwerk... not Grandmaster Flash as a lot of people seem to think. Even the likes of Big Electric Cat and Skinny Puppy probably did more for the current trance scene than Hip Hop ever did. I'm not saying Hip Hop doesnt have its place, but I dont think that it was ever really an infulence to the evolution of trance music, unless you cite the prodigy and early rave jungle as an infulence... which is dubious at best. Even back then, the distinctions between trance and jungle were already pretty aparent.

The production on a lot of old skool hip hip is quite good, but the canned RnB shit that passes itself off as hip hop these days is just pathetic. Please dont even try and compare it to the likes of less commercial forms of EDM be it trance, DnB, house or whatever. Somehow RnB always gets brought up in trance debates. Is it because trance lovers just hate the shit or does the connection go deeper? God I hope not.

Theres a thought... I wonder if the current trends in Industrial will have any impact on trance in the future. By that, I'm referring to EBM and Futurepop.

For those who dont know what I'm talking about ... imagine Rank 1 syle supersaws mixed with Frankie goes to hollywood style lyrics and a healthy dose of retro styling and you have Futurepop. Its pretty ugly to watch and the lyrics are cheesy and depressing but nonethelss interesting to watch another genre abuse the supersaw.

why hate on hip hop?

(this is not a direct reply to Axolotyl's comments)

I read someplace that Trance grew out of House. And House is based on Funk. Funk is considered a mellow branch of Hip Hop!

Black Nationalist H. "Rap" Brown is credited with starting Rap the music genre as part of the 1960s Black Arts Movement.

But then it came full circle, when Afrika Bambaataa started "New School Style" of rap using more synths and drum machines. He was inspired by "techno pop" out of Europe and Asia (Kraftwerk and Yellow Magic Orchestra).

Funk was a more 'party friendly' branch of hip hop/rap. It later influenced West Coast Gangsta Rap's sound.

I think a strong argument can be made that *ALL* popular music flows out of Blues. Rock n Roll, country, jazz, dance music, EDM, etc.

Now before you think I am starting a flame war or am some smart kinda guy, I have been reading this book for some inspiration, "Rap Music and Street Consciousness" by Cheryl Keyes
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=glance&s=books

I only hope my comments might provide some food for thought or small ideas for all you Trance producers. Someday I will be one of you

I don't think the supersaw will die, but we will see more original uses and variations of it. The supersaw is to trance like the guitar is to rock. No guitar - no rock music.

over the past year ive got really into breakbeat. I can't beleive that no-one has actually mentioned it here. The likes of evil nine and adam freeland are really movin the genre forward and new producers are goin into it all the time. Its really progressin at a massive rate and think its partly because it can be combined with so many other genres - rock, rap, hip-hop, trance, funk, house. The variety within breaks is absolutely massive and thats why its able to appeal to a lot of people and gain a bigger following.

With trance being my first love ive listened to loads of tracks that all sound very similar. Tracks that i like but don't really help in pushing the genre forward. I find trance now very pigeonholed, the sad fact is that if someone makes a track that takes the elements of trance and moves it forward its already put into a new genre instead of saying oh yes this is trance. I think the industry is waiting for a new sound to come along an push the trance seen forwards, to me it has become very static in the last year or two, ther has been very good tracks but nothing that has to me grabbed trance by the neck to push it forward.

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Originally posted by Aquarian I don't think the supersaw will die, but we will see more original uses and variations of it. The supersaw is to trance like the guitar is to rock. No guitar - no rock music.

agreed. Supersaw kinda defines trance, doesn't it?

SUPERSAW DEFINES TRANCE???? are you guys on drugs? get over it man!! Trance is a feeling not one single sound...get over using the supersaw because you think thats what trance stands for....yes maybe at one time it was amazing but remember its only been around for a few years and trance has been around much longer than that.

All I can say to sum this whole thread up is, Trance is, what it is because of how it makes us feel not what sounds are used...to think like this would be like saying painters could only use oil paints(fucking supersaws) to make paintings...does that make sense...hell no.

remember that trance is a feeling, through, mind, body, and soul,.....explore what is in you, and DEFINE yourself in your music....thats what trance really is, and thats what trance will always be!

blah blah blah... trance is a genre the fucking word has nothing to do with it, ANYMORE. whats progressive in progressive smart ass... lol.. ofcourse trance is entrancing but there are lots of "trance" genres if you take it by the meaning of the word

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Originally posted by dj jasonF whats progressive in progressive

Heheh... That has bothered me alot.

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Originally posted by Aquarian I don't think the supersaw will die, but we will see more original uses and variations of it. The supersaw is to trance like the guitar is to rock. No guitar - no rock music.

The supersaw was innovative back in 99-00, now the only thing it defines is generic sounding uplifting trance. How can you have variations on something which is in essence just a bunch of detuned saw waves? Add more saw waves to it I suppose

It's such a specific way of programming a synth that it makes me surprised that so many producers seem to want to use it, even though it makes their sound so similar to other similar producers. Its not like its hard not to program a supersaw. I guess its just part of the uplifting sound. I'm sure there will be innovations down the track, but it's definately flavour of the decade.

Personally I find the sound really muddy. It's such a broad and unspecific sound that kinda starts to sound like white noise after a while. Oh great, here comes another supersaw... raise your hands everyone.... Give me one cracking oscillator pumping out a single wave... let me actually hear the waveforms rather than filling up the entire spectrum with big noise.

look back to most old school trance tracks, it was arpeggios back then. not saws.


we need FORWARD thinking producers. the saw is fucking old, let it die. time to move on.

use your creativity. it seems to be a rarity in todays music. stop trying to produce trance. just create songs without the specific intention of making it sound a specific way before hand. if you normally use trancey kick samples for your song, use a different type of kick drum. instead of 4/4 beat, do some wacky shit. instead of your standard trance lead, make some crazy squelchy sounds that dont fit any profile. nothing will make me believe that making trancy music is all you have in you.

i urge some of you to really try this: stop listening to music for about two weeks. in that time, ill be really suprised if you havnt made something completely unique sounding (that is if there are further complications disallowing you to do so...).

just stop getting fed any outside influences and see what happens.

EXACTLY...that is what I always think...forget about the cookie-cutter BS. JUST PRODUCE...forget about famous producers, famous songs, famous synths...

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Originally posted by Axolotyl The supersaw...How can you have variations on something which is in essence just a bunch of detuned saw waves? ... its just part of the uplifting sound...kinda starts to sound like white noise after a while...raise your hands everyone...filling up the entire spectrum with big noise.

Nicely said.

Has anybody wondered just why the SuperSaw is used so much in uplifting trance?

Uplifting trance is all about the moment on the dance floor where you're completely fucked and the music sends waves of euphoria over you.

It's no secret that music containing a full spectrum of frequencies and especially full of high frequencies will send you instantly from being off your chops to complete muntation.

So why is the Supersaw used so much? Harmonic content. Masses of frequencies. Supersaw, Superstrings they exist because of their harmonic content.

So everybody who wants to be original, and euphoric, please come up with a new sound that contains as many frequencies as a supersaw. Even if you use tri/square/whatever waves, you'll have to distort them, layer them and you'll eventually end up with something approaching the big muddy noisy sound of the supersaw.

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