TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Music Discussion
-- Is ASOT actually all trance?
Pages (2): « 1 [2]

"I just have to say that I agree with this view. Most genres are about a feeling and I don't see how a feeling would change just because you simply speed up or slow down a track. A happy song is a happy song no matter what the tempo is."

I disagree with this completely. House music, for example, has a very soulful sound that does go along with the tempo of the song. If you make it 160BPM, it loses the "groove" and soulfulness that makes house what it is, and in that case, it is related to the tempo of the song. As well, I find that even with a given trance song, I find it has a different feel depending on the tempo, such as when PVD pitches up a given song.

quote:

Originally posted by Deam Ironically, if you took a rock song and speed it up to dance music speeds, often the average person will think that they made a "techno version".

Many rock songs are at higher tempos than most house and trance.

Agreed. However, my point was to say that regardless of initial speed, people classify a song as "techno-version" when it is sped up beyond a trivial amount.

These people are idiots then.

quote:

Originally posted by Deam "I just have to say that I agree with this view. Most genres are about a feeling and I don't see how a feeling would change just because you simply speed up or slow down a track. A happy song is a happy song no matter what the tempo is." I disagree with this completely. House music, for example, has a very soulful sound that does go along with the tempo of the song. If you make it 160BPM, it loses the "groove" and soulfulness that makes house what it is, and in that case, it is related to the tempo of the song. As well, I find that even with a given trance song, I find it has a different feel depending on the tempo, such as when PVD pitches up a given song.

quote:

Ultra house: Extremely fast house beats typically 160 to 220 beats per minute, the same speed as "jungle" music.

definitions of house

Here is something that I think might help this discussion, from that same link:

"Deep house: A slower variant of house (around 120 BPM) with warm sometimes hypnotic melodies that originated in San Francisco. "

So, a different BPM in this case creates a variant of house. Just like Ultra House is a variant of house, hence the different name. It is not House. And I will also point out that a song played at regular house speeds and the same song at Ultra speeds would most definitely NOT have the same feeling while you are listening and dancing to it.

Trance has many genres. So the question then is, the slower, less energetic songs that Armin plays, what would we call those, other then "slow trance"? Is that progressive trance?

quote:

Originally posted by Deam I disagree with this completely. House music, for example, has a very soulful sound that does go along with the tempo of the song. If you make it 160BPM, it loses the "groove" and soulfulness that makes house what it is, and in that case, it is related to the tempo of the song. As well, I find that even with a given trance song, I find it has a different feel depending on the tempo, such as when PVD pitches up a given song.

Somehow I don't see that. You mean a 160bpm track can't be soulfull? I have actually sped a house track up to 172bpm for a bootleg and it didn't loose it's "groove" or soulfullness.

quote:

Originally posted by Deam Here is something that I think might help this discussion, from that same link: "Deep house: A slower variant of house (around 120 BPM) with warm sometimes hypnotic melodies that originated in San Francisco. " So, a different BPM in this case creates a variant of house. Just like Ultra House is a variant of house, hence the different name. It is not House. And I will also point out that a song played at regular house speeds and the same song at Ultra speeds would most definitely NOT have the same feeling while you are listening and dancing to it. Trance has many genres. So the question then is, the slower, less energetic songs that Armin plays, what would we call those, other then "slow trance"? Is that progressive trance?

compare Cass & Slide - Perception to what you call "slow trance"

BTW....

quote:

Deep house is a style of house music. It is loosely defined by the following characteristics that distinguish it from most other forms of house music: relatively slow tempo (110�125 bpm); de-emphasized percussion, including: simpler drum machine programming; gentle transitions and fewer "build-ups"; less "thumpy" bass drum sound; less pronounced hi-hats on the off-beat; sustained chords or other tonal elements that span multiple bars; increased use of reverb, delay, and filter effects; a featured solo R&B vocalist, often male, exhibiting soul, jazz, and/or gospel influences; jazz influences or samples in the instrumentation. Not all of these need to be present or fully satisfied in order for house music to be called "deep house"; fans of the style typically just identify it by its subjective "feel" rather than by the presence or absence of specific elements. The term "deep house" first appeared in the music press in the late 1980s, usually in reference to the music of Larry Heard.

Well, yes, if you find it equally soulful, I cannot disagree with your feeling on that song. But look at Deep House. Part of the "deep" aspect comes from the very fact that the tempo is slower then house generally.

"fans of the style typically just identify it by its subjective "feel" rather than by the presence or absence of specific elements."

And yes, I don't think Deep house would have the same "feel" at 145 BPM. I am surprised nobody conceeds that point. EDIT: Obviously, as that quote states, there are multiple elements to deep house, but the speed is surely one of the significant ones.

just a quick question...


wasn't this thread about armin and asot?

and to answer your question about markus, i would not even consider him a "trance" dj. many of the tracks that he plays i would consider to be prog or prog. trance.

Edit: also, if you feel the beat makes a difference in a genre, then that's awesome. I just don't know why you're arguing about it...it's an opinion...you can't be right or wrong man

Thank you. Given that Armin sometimes plays the same songs as Markus, then he plays progressive. But again, this is moot, because Armin himself says it's progressive too. This came about because it seems people think that everything Armin plays during ASOT is trance. I wanted to know that this was not in fact that case, and it appears it isn't. My question originated because the show is called "a state of trance", although I found that not all the songs were "trance" in nature.

The remaining discussion is an interesting consideration of the role of BPM on genre definition.

Oh, and I started the discussion because of this:

"Armin plays trance. What does tempo have to do with anything, as a DJ you can change the tempo to whatever you wish."

However, it appears Armin also plays progressive tunes. Semantics, I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Deam Thank you. Given that Armin sometimes plays the same songs as Markus, then he plays progressive. But again, this is moot, because Armin himself says it's progressive too. This came about because it seems people think that everything Armin plays during ASOT is trance. I wanted to know that this was not in fact that case, and it appears it isn't. My question originated because the show is called "a state of trance", although I found that not all the songs were "trance" in nature. The remaining discussion is an interesting consideration of the role of BPM on genre definition.

You must remember that the show started almost four years ago. EDM has obviously evolved since then, especially trance. Plus, he's not going to name the show "A State of Trance and Progressive". Where do you see people saying that what Armin plays is all trance on ASOT?? If you look at his ASOT threads, all you do is see people complaining because he's NOT playing enough trance because he starts off with progressive...

Um, it was one of the first responses to my thread:

"Armin plays trance. What does tempo have to do with anything, as a DJ you can change the tempo to whatever you wish."

My point to this poster was that the slower music being played wasn't really trance. He/She obviously disagreed, and thought that the slow songs on ASOT was just slow trance, which brought about the debate on genre, BPM, and what I guess is personal opinion of genre, semantics and definition. My point about the BPM was that the slower BPM tracks on ASOT isn't that trance-like.

quote:

Originally posted by Deam This came about because it seems people think that everything Armin plays during ASOT is trance.

how can what one person says mean "people." what one person says can't serve as a sample for all armin listeners. i would have to say that people that regularly listen to his shows would not say this AT ALL. Just read his ASOT threads...then you'll see what the regular listeners of ASOT think.

quote:

Originally posted by Deam Um, it was one of the first responses to my thread: "Armin plays trance. What does tempo have to do with anything, as a DJ you can change the tempo to whatever you wish." My point to this poster was that the slower music being played wasn't really trance. He/She obviously disagreed, and thought that the slow songs on ASOT was just slow trance, which brought about the debate on genre, BPM, and what I guess is personal opinion of genre, semantics and definition. My point about the BPM was that the slower BPM tracks on ASOT isn't that trance-like.

quote:

Progressive electronica (sometimes 'prog' or 'proggy') is a collection of electronic music genres which draw upon progressive music, generally, and include the sub-styles of progressive trance, progressive house, progressive techno and progressive breaks.

quote:

Progressive trance (sometimes melodic trance) is popular sub-genre in trance music. It has elements of fast techno music and ambient music. The basic formula of trance became even more focused on the anthemic qualities and melodies, moving away from predictable arppegiated analog synth patterns (aka acid synth lines). Acoustic elements and spacey pads became popular, compositions leaned towards incremental changes (aka progressive structures), sometimes composed in thirds (like Brian Transeau frequently does), buildups and breakdowns became more elaborate and intense. The sound became more and more ethereal and heavenly. This sound came to be known as epic trance (sometimes called melodic trance or anthem trance), and became the foundation of what the modern progressive trance sound is today. The structure of progressive trance is different from a typical techno track. The introduction generally starts with slower ambient beats. Following this section is a "breakdown" and then the main melody. There are build-ups with faster beats, and the track usually concludes with an "outro" that typically slows down as the track ends, though it can be fast. Electronic effects and vocals are usually in both the intro and the coda. Progressive trance became popular because of the build-ups of beats and sparing use of vocals. Phrases can be any multiple of 4 bars (4-8-12-16 etc.) in most typical progressive trance tracks. Phrases usually begin with the introduction of a new or different melody, or the introduction of hi-hats to the track. In progressive trance there may be four more simultaneous layers.

not once does it mention speed.

You are correct, it wasn't people, but I came in asking a general question and that was the response I got. As for the definitions, I think that what Armin plays, on top of trance and progressive trance, would actually be more in line with progressive house, and house is generally slower than trance, which is why I referred to tempo in the first place. I should have said that earlier on. However, I have a feeling you will disagree with that comment to begin with

Progressive is a bit hard to pin down, and people refer to progressive as both progressive house and progressive trance, which are not the same.

So many pages of useless nitpicking and unnecessary over-analyzing...what for?
Simply put, Armin's show is primarily a blend of progressive house/progressive trance/melodic trance/tech-trance/a hint of techno. The name 'A State Of Trance' is not to be misconstrued with what he plays NOW. Back in 2001 when the show started, it was for the basic purpose of reviving trance and mostly revolved around 'trance' back THEN. These days pretty much anything that catches Armin's attention be it trance/tech/prog gets played. Period.

The answer to my question, thank you.
Basically: No, it isn't all trance.

quote:

Originally posted by Deam You are correct, it wasn't people, but I came in asking a general question and that was the response I got. As for the definitions, I think that what Armin plays, on top of trance and progressive trance, would actually be more in line with progressive house, and house is generally slower than trance, which is why I referred to tempo in the first place. I should have said that earlier on. However, I have a feeling you will disagree with that comment to begin with Progressive is a bit hard to pin down, and people refer to progressive as both progressive house and progressive trance, which are not the same.

yes...progressive trance and progressive house are definitely different. and i will totally disagree about armin playing more progressive house...maybe one or two tracks MAX at the beginning of a set. in his new ASOT 2005, he has one track out of i think 26 that would be considered progressive house (nu-frequency - 808). that's less than 4% of the total tracks (and he only plays about 2:30 of the track). please...you need to look at recent tracklists

Indeed, my own definition is likely wrong, which is why I was asking in the first place. You have clarified it well. Thank you.

EDIT:

But, in your earlier post you say: " i would not even consider him a "trance" dj. many of the tracks that he plays i would consider to be prog or prog. trance."

What are you referring to when you say progressive without the trance, progressive house? Or is progressive n it's own a genre unto itself?

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.