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-- Indian forced to 'marry' her father-in-law rapist (from the wtf files)
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Originally posted by AwakenedAddict Not so sure about that. Maybe the Qu'ran but definately not in the old testament/Torah.

I am very sure about it. Unfortunately I cannot tell you which book or verse but I suspect it would be Leviticus as that is the source of most of the hebrew laws.

The bible is full of nonsensical rules and "laws"... such as this one... Ladies, if you have your period and it soils your sheets you must burn them and anything with which they come in contact with. (that one is definately in Leviticus)

Oh, BTW, lets not confuse the old testement and the Torah as being the same.... they are not (due to ommissions, additions, and differences in interpretation made by all three Judeao Christian traditions).

Well, i'll have to take your word on that one, since i've been lackin on my bible studies recently.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard I am very sure about it. Unfortunately I cannot tell you which book or verse but I suspect it would be Leviticus as that is the source of most of the hebrew laws. The bible is full of nonsensical rules and "laws"... such as this one... Ladies, if you have your period and it soils your sheets you must burn them and anything with which they come in contact with. (that one is definately in Leviticus)

Well according to my knowledge the Qur'an has rules about womens menstrual cycle, for example you cannot pray or touch the holy book, you cannot attend the mosque, you cannot tell the opposite sex that you're on your period. Basically you're considered UNHOLY for the seven days and then you shower and everythings cool!

As for the the Old Testament yes there is indication that you are Unholy during your period and that you do need to attend a service to cleanse your body. There is a name for this ritual in Judaism but I'm not sure what its called.

Yahoo! News collects news headliens from various sources primarily Reuters, Associated Pess, and etc...so if it's there it's definitely reliable...

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Originally posted by iLLnaDa Well according to my knowledge the Qur'an has rules about womens menstrual cycle, for example you cannot pray or touch the holy book, you cannot attend the mosque, you cannot tell the opposite sex that you're on your period. Basically you're considered UNHOLY for the seven days and then you shower and everythings cool! As for the the Old Testament yes there is indication that you are Unholy during your period and that you do need to attend a service to cleanse your body. There is a name for this ritual in Judaism but I'm not sure what its called.

Truth is all religions have rules that were added by the religious leaders at the time in order to deal with some entirely secular problem or situation, or to consolidate power.

Do you think there is any valid reason why women are lower on the karmic wheel then men are in Hinduism... of course not but by declaring women unworthy to worship the gods except through their husbands the patriarchy of Indian/Arian (I will make the distinction here as I'm not sure which of the Vedics lead to this situation and therefore am not sure if it would be a result of the Arians or the Indians) society.
Similarly, a woman is blamed for the fall of humans in the old testement whilst Adam is painted as a hapless fool who was dupped by Eve.... moral of the story, women are evil and not to be trusted.
I would venture to guess that women being considered unholy when mensturating was also started as a means to make them second class to men by restricting their access to the temple/mosque and therefore to God.

To me the true test of faith is discerning what the word of God is from what those whome held the pens told us the word of God was.

I think there is one important thing that needs to be pointed out here.

The study of world religions isn't complete if one only looks at the concept of religions and applies it everywhere. Religious studies is a fairly new field and when studying religions it is imperative that the world religions are categorized, for example, Western religions (predominantly) Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) and Eastern Religions (Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism (Theravada,Mahayana etc) and other spirituality based religions.

From my studies of world religions, I can say that the status of women in most religious traditions has been subordinate historically. Any comments??

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Truth is all religions have rules that were added by the religious leaders at the time in order to deal with some entirely secular problem or situation, or to consolidate power.

I agree with you here! I also believe that most of it was power and patriarchy that women to this day in some of the most poorest and backward provinces like Uttar Pradesh have to suffer because some old man millions of years ago wrote it down as 'the rule'.

What about 'Satti' in India? (burning women alive) can someone provide its status in India now?

Or female infanticide practiced by the pre-Islamic Bedouin Arabs?? does that still happen today?

Or female circumcision currently practiced in parts of Africa?

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Originally posted by iLLnaDa I think there is one important thing that needs to be pointed out here. The study of world religions isn't complete if one only looks at the concept of religions and applies it everywhere. Religious studies is a fairly new field and when studying religions it is imperative that the world religions are categorized, for example, Western religions (predominantly) Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) and Eastern Religions (Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism (Theravada,Mahayana etc) and other spirituality based religions. From my studies of world religions, I can say that the status of women in most religious traditions has been subordinate historically. Any comments??

I thought that by hitting up the two largest religious catagories, Judeao Christian or Abrahamic (I like that and had not heard it before, it is more accurate) and Hindu (from which Budism, Janism, etc are derived) and showing how they subjugate women I would have made it clear that the major religions make women subordinate. This is one thing I have found in my long quest to research and choose a religion.

As a side note, it is interesting that most religions practiced by societies that are underpopulated often put women as equal to or higher then men. This is true of most of the Woodland Indian (NA Indian) religions, pre-Myan Mexican religions, and early (pre-monotheistic) Hebrew religions.

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Originally posted by iLLnaDa What about 'Satti' in India? (burning women alive) can someone provide its status in India now? Or female infanticide practiced by the pre-Islamic Bedouin Arabs?? does that still happen today? Or female circumcision currently practiced in parts of Africa?

Satti does still occure, however, it is rare now. I must point out though that Satti is now a voluntary practice... in fact it was always voluntary. Granted there once was great preasure put on wives to throw themselves on their husband's funeral pile but they were never forced to. Remember this practice started due to the fact that your husband is your god if you are a Hindu woman and without your husband you cannot continue to worship therefore you cannot increase your karmic standing.... which means there is no point in continuing THIS life. Additionally, throwing ones self onto her husband's funeral pile shows great devotion and faith therefore will be rewarded in the next life (ie. you may come back as a man.... maybe even of the Brahmain cast).

I cannot advise on Bedouin practices.

Female circumsision continues in both Jewish (predominately Somolia) and Islamic areas of east Africa

I need to stop posting such serious posts or else you people will get the wrong idea about me.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard As a side note, it is interesting that most religions practiced by societies that are underpopulated often put women as equal to or higher then men. This is true of most of the Woodland Indian (NA Indian) religions, pre-Myan Mexican religions, and early (pre-monotheistic) Hebrew religions.

don't forget the pagan religions of Europe, especially southern Europe, in which women played an important role... Catholicism carried on that tradition with the importance of Mary, female saints, etc.

Explains why western women were/are the freest in the world.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf don't forget the pagan religions of Europe, especially southern Europe, in which women played an important role... Catholicism carried on that tradition with the importance of Mary, female saints, etc. Explains why western women were/are the freest in the world.

Very true, I can't believe I overlooked them. Good observation with the cult of Mary in Catholocism.

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar I've said it before and I'll say it again: crack is one hell of a drug.

Seriously, I would start smokin the pipe if I lived like that....how sad

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Originally posted by yankeeBaby Seriously, I would start smokin the pipe if I lived like that....how sad

very. i cant fathom being forced to exist as such. its horrible and depressing and unsanctionable

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar very. i cant fathom being forced to exist as such. its horrible and depressing and unsanctionable

It is only any of those things because you were not raised and socialized in an environment that allows this treatment of women. Don't get me wrong, I don't justify it nor to I approve of it, but, I must point out that had Sharia law been the only social justice you were taught then it would be the only one you would believe to be valid/correct.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard It is only any of those things because you were not raised and socialized in an environment that allows this treatment of women. Don't get me wrong, I don't justify it nor to I approve of it, but, I must point out that had Sharia law been the only social justice you were taught then it would be the only one you would believe to be valid/correct.

I have a pretty hip young manager who is a woman (really wicked chick)...one day some guy didn't want to answer some questions she's been asking him because aparently he came from a culture that didn't respect women or regard them very highly...lol...oh boy...she really let him have it...i loved it

this is unreal!?!?!
what kind of laws they have there?

When i heard that sharia law might be accepted into the ontario courts to decide marraige rights.. i wanted punch a face. I hate this religious bullshit!!!

Espescially islamic barbaric law

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Originally posted by BrownTA4Life only in india

Incorrect. Girls as young as 13 years old are married off in Saudi Arabia and other gulf states.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard So if I want a divorce in India all I need to do is get someone to rape my wife, and if I want a new wife all I have to do is rape someone..... sounds easier then family court and dating!

Heh. Maybe if you're a muslim. Hindu's believe that a marriage lasts for 7 livetimes (that's 6 more reincartaions then the till death do us part that western vows of marriage). According to some muslim interupteration of the marriage laws, a man can simple say DIVORCE DIVORCE DIVORCE three times, and that's all it takes for him to ditch his wife. Of course this isn't accepted in most countries, but back in the days that's how easy it was.

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH I can't wait for someone to come in and try to justify this because it's a different culture.

This has nothing to do with culure, and everything to do with ignornant, backward thinking village idiots who disregard state and fedral laws. This kinda thing would only happen in a bumfuck village.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Satti does still occure, however, it is rare now. I must point out though that Satti is now a voluntary practice... in fact it was always voluntary. Granted there once was great preasure put on wives to throw themselves on their husband's funeral pile but they were never forced to. Remember this practice started due to the fact that your husband is your god if you are a Hindu woman and without your husband you cannot continue to worship therefore you cannot increase your karmic standing.... which means there is no point in continuing THIS life. Additionally, throwing ones self onto her husband's funeral pile shows great devotion and faith therefore will be rewarded in the next life (ie. you may come back as a man.... maybe even of the Brahmain cast).

Satti is illegal in India. Has been since independence i believe. I haven't heard of any reports of Satti being commited in the last 20-30 years. There are however quite a few tragic incidents where dowry deaths resulting from families burning their brides (which is often confused with Satti). The act of Satti itself though is dead.

If I remember correctly, in Islamic law if someone cheats on his wife or vice versa, the punishment is death to the cheater? (can anyone confirm? )

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Originally posted by starsearcher I have a pretty hip young manager who is a woman (really wicked chick)...one day some guy didn't want to answer some questions she's been asking him because aparently he came from a culture that didn't respect women or regard them very highly...lol...oh boy...she really let him have it...i loved it

Oh mah, id have given anything to have heard her reem him out. id have given even more to have seen his fuckn face after getting told by a "woman" LOL

fuckn c.unt.. (him, not her) hahahahaha

-jem-

All rapists need to have their genitals removed.

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Originally posted by EvilTree All rapists need to have their genitals removed.

not ever being able to masterbate would suck tho.

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Originally posted by Kytracid This has nothing to do with culture, and everything to do with ignornant, backward thinking village idiots who disregard state and fedral laws. This kinda thing would only happen in a bumfuck village.

This does have to do with culture, unfortunately, the type that has been passed on for generations in these remote villages...

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from starsearcher's articles: The village is in Uttar Pradesh, one of India's poorest and most backward states and its most populous, with more than 165 million people, more than Russia's 145 million ... Gang rapes and honour killings are common in feudal-dominated rural Pakistan, where brutal tribal customs sometimes hold sway.

These types of inhumane acts ONLY occur in these areas where even the so-called clerics are so far from the truth of Islam that it's really heartbreaking to see the media call them Muslims.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf After all, this garbage takes place in CANADA too, and everywhere that Islamic law is applied.

How does any of this occur in Canada? You failed to demonstrate that. Islamic law is not applied here.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf Today, thanks in large part to a massive flow of immigration from Muslim countries, sharia law and medieval customs are becoming increasingly common in the heart of Christian Europe. One of the most shocking examples of this new reality occurred in Sweden last year, when a Kurdish woman was killed by her father for having a romantic relationship with a Swedish man. Fadime Sahindal, 26, had taken her father and brother to sharia court in 1998, alleging that they had threatened to kill her for refusing to marry a Kurdish man the family had chosen for her. The two received only light sentences, however, and continued to abuse Fadime until, in 2002, her father shot and killed her. Disturbingly, the young woman was well aware of the fate that awaited her, as she said during the 1998 trial: "The only way for the family to regain its honor now that I have spread dishonor over it is to kill me."

There is no sharia court in Sweden, not sure where this personal editorial got its facts.

In an Islamic perspective, the difference between the "clerics" in the tribal village and the father/brothers/partners carrying out these atrocities in the western world is that the clerics believe they are following sharia law but the latter are carrying out honour killings, as no recognized Islamic scholar was consulted nor was a high Sharia court involved (located in the civilized sections of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Indonesia, Egypt, Malaysia, and other Islamic countries).

Also, "sharia law" and "medieval customs" are two different things. The punishment prescribed in the Quran (e.g. "eye-for-an-eye" or lashings for various offences) can definitely be seen as medieval, but the fairness and justice in Islamic law has nothing to do with the brute, feudal, ANIMALISTIC behaviour described above. In the proper application of Islamic law, firstly there must be a witness in the sexual act (e.g. when men/women have pre/extra-marital relationships). No witness, no case. If there is a witness, BOTH man AND woman get the same punishment. Again, it's only in these obscure tribal scenarios that men would dominate and completely subordinate women. Not at all indicative of the true nature of Islam.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf Cases similar to Fadime's have been reported in France and Denmark. In England last September, a Kurdish father slit his daughter's throat because he disapproved of her Christian boyfriend and Westernized way of life. And, recently, in the port town of Taranto in southern Italy, a Muslim man who suspected that his wife had committed adultery decided � after consulting with members of his local Muslim community � that she should be stoned to death. The tragedy was only averted thanks to the intervention of local police.

All the examples above demonstrate a "father" or a "man" consulting his Muslim buddies and then carrying out some despicable act. Again, NOTHING to do with Sharia/Islamic law!!!! No rules are being followed here except for the hate and jealousy and pride of the ignorant man involved.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf Nevertheless, the Koran itself permits men to beat their wives (Chapter 4, Verse 34), and the sharia-inspired penal codes of most Muslim countries give the benefit of the doubt to a man who kills his wife, daughter, or sister for engaging in adulterous or immoral behavior. � "A religious Muslim is also at the same time an advocate for sharia. The state, the media, and the courts have no rights to interfere. The allegiance of a Muslim to sharia cannot be condemned or questioned."

The reference to the Quran is completely taken out of context and is the wrong translation. If you would like to discuss this then do your own research instead of pawning off some blog news site and we can discuss it. According to the Quran, (and through actions of the prophet Muhammad) Muslims are supposed respect and obey the rules of the government in which they live, and follow those laws, not create their own.

The proponents of sharia law in the western world are only looking for its application in matters regarding marriage, inheritance, divorce, etc. For example, which relatives have priority over the claims to someone's inheritance in the event that there is no will. There are specific rules for minute details like that in Islam so people would rather not clog the western courts that have more important cases to handle. Any OTHER situation that involved MURDER or RAPE would go directly through the existing government�s legal system! No debate there! Unfortunately people exaggerate the application (and intention) of the proponents and you get biased and emotional outbursts (like some of the posts in this thread).

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Actually this "law" is derived from the corhan and the old testement. I cannot tell you what it says in corhan exactly but the old testiment does state that if a woman is raped her rapist must marry her in order to right the wrong and absolve the sin of both.

Sorry, Moral, but this is totally wrong. None of the three monotheistic religions would support this idea; I don�t want to get into a debate about the authenticity of the version of the Bible that you are referring to but it doesn�t make common sense, let alone divine sense. This way any man could marry any woman without her will, through violence. Can you imagine a society where this was law? Those three religions which respect the role of women and the idea of consent could never allow this to happen, and furthermore, in Islam, there is the punishment of death by stoning for a rapist/adulterer (wouldn�t make sense for him to get married to her, now would it? ) Fornicators just get a nice whipping--but then some fornicators like that sort of thing

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Originally posted by bass drive If I remember correctly, in Islamic law if someone cheats on his wife or vice versa, the punishment is death to the cheater? (can anyone confirm? )

Confirmed.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf The crime might be easier to digest if it had been an archaic anomaly, but five other Muslim women have been murdered in Berlin during the past four months by their husbands or partners for besmirching the family's Muslim honor. Two of them were stabbed to death in front of their young children, one was shot, one strangled and a fifth drowned. It seems hard to fathom, but in the middle of democratic Western Europe -- in Germany, a nation where pacifism is almost a universal mantra -- murderous macho patriotism not only exists but also appears to be thriving. It may even be Germany's liberalism -- and its post World War II fear of criticizing minority cultures -- that has encouraged ultra-religious families to settle here.

Another demonstration that it's husbands/partners that are doing this for HONOUR..."murderous macho patriotism" is the perfect way to describe it, not "sharia law". Again, one has nothing to do with the other.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf Last year, a virtual tectonic shift occurred when Germany -- long considered a Mecca of religious tolerance by Muslims -- took its first step toward enforced secularism. Five of the nation's 16 states voted to ban teachers and other public officials from wearing headscarves to work. In October, after much lobbying, Turkish women's groups scored a coup when the government passed a law making it illegal for parents to force their children to marry. Turkey, a secular Muslim state, has long had such a law.

Believe it or not, it is illegal in Islam to force someone to marry against his/her will. This law is actually an example of sharia being practiced!!!

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf Ali Kizilkaya, the chairman of the Council of Islam, one of the largest umbrella organizations, has decried Hatin's murder as "an abuse and affront to the Muslim religion." He insists Islam does not condone honor killings.

Wow...a quote from someone who actually speaks the truth...very shocked to find it in your post!

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Originally posted by starsearcher Yahoo! News collects news headliens from various sources primarily Reuters, Associated Pess, and etc...so if it's there it's definitely reliable...

Just because Yahoo collects news from Reuters and AP it doesn�t mean all of its news is �definitely� reliable. Come on! I�d rather give it a �possibly�.

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar not ever being able to masterbate would suck tho.

It sucks more for the victims.

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