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quote:

Originally posted by newtotrance Scientology was developed by man and not from God.

god exists?

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Originally posted by Subey The universal religion that replaces the monotheistic age is all around you, but no one has the imagination to see it. The Chrisitan argues that the Age of Aquarius is a lie... yet Santa's catch phrase is the chemical symbol for water. Love is the Key. Imagination turns it.

Sure love is the key and the greatest commandment that Jesus - the son of God - gave to humanity. However, there may be many religions in the world but almost all of them worship false Gods that require you to sacrifice animals and burn incense. On the flip side, there is only one montheistic age that is universal which involves worshipping the one true God that sent his son to die on the cross which made it possible for people to stop sacrificing and burning incense.

quote:

Originally posted by vrahnos god exists?

Of course, God exists. How did you get here. God maybe not be the same meaning to everyone but in the end we all come from the same source - God.

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Originally posted by newtotrance Of course, God exists. How did you get here. God maybe not be the same meaning to everyone but in the end we all come from the same source - God.

i came from the apes.
why exists? because they're saying this to you since you were a kid?
have you seen him?

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Originally posted by vrahnos i came from the apes. why exists? because they're saying this to you since you were a kid? have you seen him?

Came from the apes eh? Well, congradulations on evolving from an animal with less intelligence than humans. You need a cookie. Seriously tho, that is the evolutionary theory. No, they have not been saying this to me since I was a kid. I have not seen him. However, where did the apes come from? Some atomic gas from outer space. It says in Genesis 1, that God created the earth and humans. There is no way that humans could evolve from apes.

I know a few Scientologists. Scientology is bascially based on the fact that there are elements (I think 8) that one must reach in order to achieve true and pure happiness. Basically there are levels, and Scientology exists to bring contentness and happiness to each of those levels without using God in the equation.

quote:

Originally posted by squirrelly I know a few Scientologists. Scientology is bascially based on the fact that there are elements (I think 8) that one must reach in order to achieve true and pure happiness. Basically there are levels, and Scientology exists to bring contentness and happiness to each of those levels without using God in the equation.

this sounds a lot like the humanistic perspective-

quote:

Originally posted by newtotrance Came from the apes eh? Well, congradulations on evolving from an animal with less intelligence than humans. You need a cookie. Seriously tho, that is the evolutionary theory. No, they have not been saying this to me since I was a kid. I have not seen him. However, where did the apes come from? Some atomic gas from outer space. It says in Genesis 1, that God created the earth and humans. There is no way that humans could evolve from apes.

whatever,
i've lost many time of my life wondering if god exists or not, and if exists, who created him? and so and so...
its a headache, i dont care anymore...

the only thing that i care right now is:

hehe, c ya in the morning (wasted ofcourse )

quote:

Originally posted by dinoXpress this sounds a lot like the humanistic perspective-

Only problem is that those that truly follow the Scientologist perspective don't speak to anyone that isn't a Scientologist, because they don't want to associate themselves with anyone that isn't in the same mind set about life, for they feel as though it will hinder their calmness and happiness. Hence why Tom Cruise for example doesn't have any non-Scientologist friends. The only thing that you have to admit about most Scientologists is that they are usually extreemely sucessful in life.

hehe, that sounds really boring. Only be friends with people who won't challenge you.

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Originally posted by Orbax hehe, that sounds really boring. Only be friends with people who won't challenge you.

It's not about that. It's not about being around people that won't challenge you. Your friend can challenge you regardless, even if you share the same beliefs. It's about being around people who have the same goals and aspirations that you do. It's more about cleansing yourself from negativity.

this is another great arguement that has happened dozens of times on these boards and i really wanna be a part of it, but like newtotrance, i have a very biased opinion, although on the other end of the spectrum. I'm open minded but i dont think i can offer too much to this arguement.

Imo, she's not offering much to the arguement cause she isnt open-mineded in the least bit. No offense to you, but my personal opinion is that you cant have a good debate if both sides cant accept nor understand how the other end sees things. I do, because i was brought up under a religion and chose sided on my own, but unfortunately, you dont simply because you're so incredibly set in your ways...

This debate will most likely never end because there's no way to prove one way or the other. Religion is completely faith based. There's logic thrown in, but no proof, and science is the same way, but more opinion based than faith based. You can prove things, but it all leads down to "how did we get here?" which we can most likely never prove.

again, no offense

I dunno, in a kind of Durkheimian way I think that people need negativity in their lives. That if you get rid of all the things that piss you off, soon stuff like your bread being buttered wrong will piss you off. Eventually youll refine and narrow and refine again until youre almost impossible to hang out with.

Its like going into a nunnery and little stuff is a grave offense. Totally not fun to go to.

I get the feeling if I went and cracked some ridiculously offensive joke for shock value, and that joke actually WAS funny, theyd say in a very cool condescending tone "I really dont appreciate the negativity youre bringing here" and have really wide eyes and raised eyes brows as they said it.

The kind of people who dont watch rated R movies because they have sex, violence, and swearing in them. Like something cant be art if its offensive. Maybe thats the point! /flipping out ninja style

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Originally posted by D-res again, no offense

would you like some more butter milk in your water

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Originally posted by D-res this is another great arguement that has happened dozens of times on these boards and i really wanna be a part of it, but like newtotrance, i have a very biased opinion, although on the other end of the spectrum. I'm open minded but i dont think i can offer too much to this arguement. Imo, she's not offering much to the arguement cause she isnt open-mineded in the least bit. No offense to you, but my personal opinion is that you cant have a good debate if both sides cant accept nor understand how the other end sees things. I do, because i was brought up under a religion and chose sided on my own, but unfortunately, you dont simply because you're so incredibly set in your ways... This debate will most likely never end because there's no way to prove one way or the other. Religion is completely faith based. There's logic thrown in, but no proof, and science is the same way, but more opinion based than faith based. You can prove things, but it all leads down to "how did we get here?" which we can most likely never prove. again, no offense

Hmmm

Who are you talking about here?

*edit

Just so it is known, I am not a Scientologist, I just happen to know a lot about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax would you like some more butter milk in your water

mmmmm yes please

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax I dunno, in a kind of Durkheimian way I think that people need negativity in their lives. That if you get rid of all the things that piss you off, soon stuff like your bread being buttered wrong will piss you off. Eventually youll refine and narrow and refine again until youre almost impossible to hang out with. Its like going into a nunnery and little stuff is a grave offense. Totally not fun to go to. I get the feeling if I went and cracked some ridiculously offensive joke for shock value, and that joke actually WAS funny, theyd say in a very cool condescending tone "I really dont appreciate the negativity youre bringing here" and have really wide eyes and raised eyes brows as they said it. The kind of people who dont watch rated R movies because they have sex, violence, and swearing in them. Like something cant be art if its offensive. Maybe thats the point! /flipping out ninja style

I know what you mean. I have two examples in my life personally where such extreme religious belief has led to such rediculous things

One such being a kid I used to be friends with. This kid loved punk music and he was one of the most carefree people i knew. He was also an athiest at the time but yeah.. He met this girl in his junior year of high school who was very religious and after hanging out with her for awhile, he too became this way. He stopped listenin to punk because it was offensive and listened to only christain music. He stopped reading normal books and now only reads the bible. He spray painted religious symbols like a cross and fish all over his van.

He then took it a step further and grew out his hair and his beard and the kid literally looked like jesus. or atleast how modern art portrays jesus to look like. I mentioned that to him once and he started calling me a blasphemer.. literally screaming it at me. His "obsession" became so immense that i stopped talking to him altogether. the bastard still has my super nintendo games

Now i have nothing against religious people. Its their opinions and i respect that, but when someone takes it to this level, its almost sickening. The kid never practices what he preaches. He walks up to the ala carte line and just takes food and walks off without paying. He even tried to kill himself once because he was so depressed, and even though thats a sin and he, atleast in his religion, would be sent to hell for that, he thought it was ok. The sad thing is, he thinks he knows so much about his religion, but he so under-educated. He thinks he can steal this food, but if he apologizes to God and whatnot, its okay...


*******

My second example is the mother of one of my other friends. She was cool. She was a typical mom. She could watch R rated movies with no problem. Violence, sex, swearing, whatever.. no problems.

BUT... i can think of two such movie related instances where she did have a problem.

Harry Potter, and Lord of the Rings.

She bought both of them, hearing how good they were. She watched them and then threw them away because the "witchcraft" elements and the "anti-religious undertones" offended her.


Again, nothing against people who have religious beliefs. Even religious extremists, whatever.. their opinion, their life, but honestly. You know that religion has gone too far when a person takes a movie that was written as a fantasy and a childrens story, with no purpose of turning people away from God, but simply giving them something to escape to in their normal hectic lives, is labeled as Anti-Christain because of the way it is portrayed in film...

bleh

quote:

Originally posted by squirrelly Only problem is that those that truly follow the Scientologist perspective don't speak to anyone that isn't a Scientologist, because they don't want to associate themselves with anyone that isn't in the same mind set about life, for they feel as though it will hinder their calmness and happiness. Hence why Tom Cruise for example doesn't have any non-Scientologist friends. The only thing that you have to admit about most Scientologists is that they are usually extreemely sucessful in life.

So basically you tried to befriend some people who were scientologists and the only excuse they could think of for getting rid of you was tell you they weren't allowed to talk to non-scientologists?!

Take a hint woman!

lol i never realised scientology was so weird

Fair play if it makes people happy and respectful to/of (?) others.
But theyre still wierdos

Katie holmes must be one now then

quote:

Originally posted by squirrelly I know a few Scientologists. Scientology is bascially based on the fact that there are elements (I think 8) that one must reach in order to achieve true and pure happiness. Basically there are levels, and Scientology exists to bring contentness and happiness to each of those levels without using God in the equation.

let me guess, more money you give, quicker you reach that happiness level?

quote:

Originally posted by newtotrance On the flip side, there is only one montheistic age that is universal which involves worshipping the one true God that sent his son to die on the cross which made it possible for people to stop sacrificing and burning incense.

You are mistaken. The sacrifices have changed in form but they are still there.

You are canadian. Why isn't the speed limit 40km/h on all roads? How many people are sacrificed every year on roads and highways? A thousand fold more than any Aztec priests ever killed.

Re: Religion

quote:

Originally posted by trance_shaft Scientology was developed by a science fiction author w/ a credible amount of education. Whatever he asks us to believe in...At least the founder was alive, visible, and reasonably educated As opposed to...well...let us now put our faith in a Jewish carpenter who lived more than a thousand years ago. He asks us to believe that the world was created in several days...that there are angels/demons...that there was an Adam/Eve...that a great flood caused Noah to harbor ALL KNOWN SPECIES AT THE TIME....on and on Well I find both to be absurd and idiotic. But it baffles me how people who have an adequate education in the sciences are so vehement towards the former dogma. In my opinion both are outlandish...

you really can't be that niave and say you think the stories of adam & eve along with Noah's Ark are to be taken literally. Those stories are full of symbology(i believe the word i was looking for was SYMBOLISM, WHAT IS THE SYMBOLISM) and were a way scholars of the time wrote in regards to lessons on the subconscience.

the bible was written by some of foremost intellectuals of its time, no can expect a clear explanation or translation of a 2000 year old book. Most people, like yourself latch on to stories that even though are appealing and over the top, nonetheless still are just that... stories.

now comparing the writers of both scientology & christianity is not fair, there is no way of being able to compare the two. Belief systems for almost all religions are based on the exactly the same concepts.

Re: Re: Religion

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0729 you really can't be that niave and say you think the stories of adam & eve along with Noah's Ark are to be taken literally. Those stories are full of symbology(i believe the word i was looking for was SYMBOLISM, WHAT IS THE SYMBOLISM) and were a way scholars of the time wrote in regards to lessons on the subconscience. the bible was written by some of foremost intellectuals of its time, no can expect a clear explanation or translation of a 2000 year old book. Most people, like yourself latch on to stories that even though are appealing and over the top, nonetheless still are just that... stories. now comparing the writers of both scientology & christianity is not fair, there is no way of being able to compare the two. Belief systems for almost all religions are based on the exactly the same concepts.

exactly.. those stories specifically were made to symbolize what happened as well as to provide lessons and teachings about our lives, our "God" so to speak, and how we should live. There obviously wasnt a massive boat carrying every species, nor were there two people running around in a perfect garden in the middle of the desert. ITs all symbolic of Jesus' teachings. Even an agnostic like myself knows that.

Re: Re: Religion

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0729 .

You must be an expert in *snap* nameology.


D-Res:

Yeah, as cliche as it is, extremes are bad. I used to be ridiculously religious in the fact that I cut out many portions of my life because they were bad. I hated Bloodhound Gang's "Discovery Channel" song, I couldnt stand much of the music of the time because it was all just so offensive and sexually lewd and bla bla. I didnt read certain books, a lot of movies I refused to watch.

Then I made friends with someone who had been an atheist and converted over on his own. He had a much more liberal view of things, and was intelligent enough to back up the ideas. He tried to get me to watch Dogma, and I stopped watching after about 15 minutes. he said something to the effect of "dude youre a fag, watch the fucking movie, its hilarious."

finally watched it and tried to be a little more understanding, then i realized it was them making fun of PEOPLE and how pissed off God probably is and its hilarious.

I took a lot of film, aesthetics, and art courses and just generally expanded my ideas on how to approach things. Its pretty cool because Ive just been generally happier being able to appreciate even things like screaming death metal now. After a while, you kind of get the flow and feel of some of the stuff and its pretty cool. Not that I generally listen to it, but someone did send me a CD of it and said they really liked it, so I went over it like 10 times before I got the nuances of it. Like most things, when you understand it more,it gets more fun.

So yeah, I went through my idealistic phase and then I realized something very important. To cut out a lot of that stuff that WAS fun and funny and for the most part, not serious, was to impoverish my life. My new kind of thought is based off Thomas Aquinas and modified: To say that God isnt rational, logical, and doesnt have a sense of humor is the biggest blasphemy.

People out there torturing themselves about enjoying stuff...God totally wouldnt want that.

Its been interesting though, and I can see where a lot of these people are coming from...I just know the mental anguish and guilt you have battling yourself, and Ive been trying to convert hard core Christians to like...reasonable Christians. Thats more important to me at the moment than talking to non-Christians. Its been working pretty well, and a lot of people have been much happier since I just kind of sat down and talked to them...

ite, Id go on, but is anyone even reading any more?

Look at it this way.

I'm tired of people saying that religion is bad when it isn't. You can read the bible and be mother theresa or read it and become that rich king who wanted land and used the bible as an excuse to get it or an extremest who bombs abortion clinics. And I'm tired of people trying to convert me into their religion by going to my house and bothering me. Are all people in religion like this? no.

This happens to everyone. One time or another, we all wonder what this world is about. We choose what we believe in, no need to shove your religion down our throats.

And people should have ACCEPTANCE, for other people's beliefs. No one should force their beliefs and tell them what's wrong or right even though the evidence is there, theist to athiest.

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