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Originally posted by bubble a problem tho, wouldn be that the US would become the gaurdians for they're well being. why not just make a rule, that if you can't prove your citzenship, then you're not allowed in. in other words the burden would be on the people to prove their legality, and NOT the US gov't to prove their illegality.

i dont understand what u mean with this, i mean u r saying that ppl that want to inmigrate to the US have to prove their US citizenship? i mean if ur inmigratin to somewhere ovbiusly(sp?) ur not a citizen of that country and therefore cannot prove being a citizen of that country and could never inmigrate to it. that is what i understood, correct me if am wrong, but that would basically be denying inmigration to almost everyone who is not allready a citizen of the US and as a consequence already enjoys all the privileges that the would be inmigrant would have.

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Originally posted by venomX well the ppl livin right now into the US actually illegally inmigrated to the native americans lands, here in the american continent, so basically is just a repetition albeit not a verbatim one, so i think the point can be used in this argument to consider how flexible the inmigration laws should be.

A couple things.

First off, please show me this "law" that was broken when settlers arrived in North America. Where was it written that no one could immigrate to the Americas? I'm not trying to be trite, but we're talking about people breaking real, written laws as opposed to the sentiment of what people think was the case back then. If I'm not mistaken, the Native Americans did not believe that people could own the land and therefore had no "laws" concerning immigration or even ownership.

Second, even if there was a law broken at that time by settlers, why do current "settlers" breaking the same type of law have any more merit? I guess the addage is "two wrongs don't make a right," so why should we be any more willing to allow people to "illegally immigrate" now, then when they did in during Native American times?

I guess basically what this Native American arguement is saying to me is "since settlers 200 years ago 'illegally' immigrated, we should allow current illegal immigrants to do the same." I'm sorry, but that stance doesn't work for me.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono First off, please show me this "law" that was broken when settlers arrived in North America. Where was it written that no one could immigrate to the Americas? I'm not trying to be trite, but we're talking about people breaking real, written laws as opposed to the sentiment of what people think was the case back then. If I'm not mistaken, the Native Americans did not believe that people could own the land and therefore had no "laws" concerning immigration or even ownership. Second, even if there was a law broken at that time by settlers, why do current "settlers" breaking the same type of law have any more merit? I guess the addage is "two wrongs don't make a right," so why should we be any more willing to allow people to "illegally immigrate" now, then when they did in during Native American times? I guess basically what this Native American arguement is saying to me is "since settlers 200 years ago 'illegally' immigrated, we should allow current illegal immigrants to do the same." I'm sorry, but that stance doesn't work for me.

Ok I will tell you when these anglo-saxons did something illegally.

You see there isn't much difference between a mexican native and an american native. in fact if the white ppl hadn't been there most likely the aztecs or mayans wouldn't have taken over the rest of North America.

Ok it is around 1855 and its texas. Whats wrong? you have a bunch of white settlers crossing the bordor illegally into mexico's territory of texas. They want nothing to do with mexico in fact as they arrive in texas they don't learn the mexican language and they refuse to blend in with the mexicans. Soon they declare their independence and thus the war began with mexico. However, what you have right now happening in the US is that not all mexicans want to be living in mexico. they are mexicans first than they are americans. But that doesn't mean they will do the same Bullshit americans did with them. If they wanted to, they could they outnumber white ppl in southern cali.

As you can tell mexicans have more merit becasue they were not so fucking far away from the natives in America. Their most likely would have been a war anyways. And wAmericans broke the law of mexico when they crossed into mexicos territory refusing to assimulate.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Ok I will tell you when these anglo-saxons did something illegally. You see there isn't much difference between a mexican native and an american native. in fact if the white ppl hadn't been there most likely the aztecs or mayans wouldn't have taken over the rest of North America. Ok it is around 1855 and its texas. Whats wrong? you have a bunch of white settlers crossing the bordor illegally into mexico's territory of texas. They want nothing to do with mexico in fact as they arrive in texas they don't learn the mexican language and they refuse to blend in with the mexicans. Soon they declare their independence and thus the war began with mexico. However, what you have right now happening in the US is that not all mexicans want to be living in mexico. they are mexicans first than they are americans. But that doesn't mean they will do the same Bullshit americans did with them. If they wanted to, they could they outnumber white ppl in southern cali. As you can tell mexicans have more merit becasue they were not so fucking far away from the natives in America. Their most likely would have been a war anyways. And wAmericans broke the law of mexico when they crossed into mexicos territory refusing to assimulate.

I can't believe I'm continuing to reply to these sophomoric posts...

So let's take a look at your logic. Americans illegally went into Texas, decided not to blend into the Mexican culture and eventually fought a war at which time Texas was brought into the Union. Now, we have Mexicans doing the same thing in reverse, who according to you are somehow more righteous in their efforts, since they are "not so fucking far away from the natives in America" (even though the vast majority are descendants of Spanish and Portugese ancestors).

So I guess as long as one person or peoples has commited a crime in the past, if someone else wants to do the same, they're more than justified. That opens up quite a lot of possibilities.

by legalizing the the illegal inmigrants, it will solve the Social Security issue .. go and do the math

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Originally posted by NeoPhono Yes, it is time for concern. When we reach the point that half the country can no longer communicate to the other in even the most basic terms, you have the recipie for disaster.

i couldnt agree more, although someone already stated that mexican immigrants cultre isnt drasticaly different than our own. (christian like most, hard working like most, but perhaps a little more familial)

we've been Mexico's neighbor for a long time, but why has immigration seen such a recent surge?

whats going on in Mexico?

doenst anyone care?

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Originally posted by jacheatamobits i couldnt agree more, although someone already stated that mexican immigrants cultre isnt drasticaly different than our own. (christian like most, hard working like most, but perhaps a little more familial) we've been Mexico's neighbor for a long time, but why has immigration seen such a recent surge? whats going on in Mexico? doenst anyone care?

It's quite interesting. Fox, Mexico's president, is actually for less restrictions when it comes to illegal immigration to the US.

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Mexico's Fox toughens talk on U.S. immigration law Story Link May 13, 11:29 PM (ET) MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Mexican President Vicente Fox called recent U.S. measures to stem illegal immigration a step back for bilateral relations on Friday and said Mexican migrants do jobs "that not even blacks want to do." In comments likely to raise the temperature of the immigration debate, Fox defended the role of undocumented Mexican workers in the United States to a group of Texas business people meeting in Mexico. "There is no doubt that Mexicans, filled with dignity, willingness and ability to work are doing jobs that not even blacks want to do there in the United States," he said in a speech broadcast in part on local radio and reported on newspaper web sites. Fox said recent, tougher measures against immigrants do not represent "the road we should be building between friends and partners." Mexico has been seeking an accord with Washington for years to make it easier for millions of illegal Mexican immigrants to live and work in the United States. The country expects to repatriate this year more than 250,000 foreigners, mostly Central Americans headed for the U.S. border. Mexican hopes were raised early last year when President Bush proposed a temporary worker program but it has become bogged down in Congress. A key partner in U.S. border security, Mexico is upset at new U.S. controls on foreign-born people, including tougher rules to obtain drivers' licenses. Congressional Republicans attached the immigration changes to legislation providing $82 billion in emergency funds for fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. Bush is expected to sign the legislation into law soon. The law, approved unanimously by the Senate on Tuesday, waives environmental rules to allow the extension of a fence on the border between California and Mexico to stop illegal immigrants. Mexico calls the measure "overly extreme." But Fox said he was encouraged by a bill put forward on Thursday by Sens. John McCain, an Arizona Republican, and Edward Kennedy, a Massachusetts Democrat, to allow some of the estimated 10 to 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States to get legal jobs and eventual citizenship. "I hope President Bush will support and push the initiative, as he has publicly agreed. I have to take his word and hope he delivers," Fox said.

The real reason? As I've said before, a large number of immigrants send their money back to their country of origin, in this case Mexcio. This foreign money has become an increasingly large part of Mexico's troubled economy in the past years. To Fox, and the Mexican people, easier illegal immigration means more money for Mexico.

YOu people should direct Inmigrants = Mexicans.. cause thats what it seems to be about here. In my area, at least, the inmigrants ( illegal or not ) ... are the ones who make this area so economically stable, and are the ones who invest the most... it would be tragic to kick all the illegal inmigrants from here ( and these are Smart, educated illegal inmigrants ).

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Originally posted by LiquidX YOu people should direct Inmigrants = Mexicans.. cause thats what it seems to be about here. In my area, at least, the inmigrants ( illegal or not ) ... are the ones who make this area so economically stable, and are the ones who invest the most... it would be tragic to kick all the illegal inmigrants from here ( and these are Smart, educated illegal inmigrants ).

No, I'm using Mexicans as an example because of a post earlier that specifically specified them. I'm not going to name one nationality when it comes to illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is just that no matter what the country of origin. The result of an illegal immigrant on a nation from one country is no less than that from any other country. Mexico may be the biggest source of illegal immigrants, but it is a problem that needs attention no matter where the immigrant is coming from.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono No, I have nothing against Mexicans. I do have something against illegal immigrants that wish to come to this country to use it strictly to their advantage. If you come by legal means, "set up shop," and pay into the system you wish to benefit from, then more power to you. However, if you wish to come to this country, work illegally, not pay taxes, send the money you make out of the country and expect to recieve entitlements and my approval, it isn't going to happen. Yes, it is time for concern. When we reach the point that half the country can no longer communicate to the other in even the most basic terms, you have the recipie for disaster. As far as what I would do? First, I would tell those interest groups to blow it out their ass. It's not always easy or popular to do what is right, but a president is not in office to bend to the will of the most vocal, he's there to do what is in the best interest of the country and the constitution. Second, I'd make English the official language. As I have stated before, the ability to communicate with your countrymen is critical. I urge you to find a large nation where there is a smooth, peaceful co-existance of people speaking two different languages in great numbers. Third, I would tighten up the borders. I know this is not an easy undertaking, but it has to be done. Through technology or sheer manpower the loose sive that is our border must be sealed. Lastly, and probably most controversally, there needs to be real repercussions against those that try to illegally immigrate. Whether it is detention centers or some other means of punishment, it has to be different than today's alternatives of either you make it in illegally or you just get sent home to try again.

OK. Canada is one country that officially has two languages (English & French) that are widely spoken there and I bet things go smoothly there. Another similar place is Swizterland, with more than two languages being used always and they can't be having much problems.

somebody should say something about the racism that occurs in Mexico against her Mexican peoples by the ruling class of Spanish descent. that is a very large reason why they come here seeking opportunity.

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Originally posted by ali92 OK. Canada is one country that officially has two languages (English & French) that are widely spoken there and I bet things go smoothly there.

Well, except for Bill 101, the independence referendum of 1980, the failure of the Meech Lake Accord or the 1995 secession referendum.

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Another similar place is Swizterland, with more than two languages being used always and they can't be having much problems.

Switzerland in recent years has proposed four seperate anti-immigration laws and in 2003 when the SVP and Blocher took over the country became even more anti-immigrant. Also an interesting fact (off topic) is that Switzerland didn't give women the right to vote until 1971. Crazy.

I have a question for you Neophone. Do you like Russian girls??

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid I have a question for you Neophone. Do you like Russian girls??

I don't know, I've never really met any, or at least any that I can remember. I can't say I don't like them though.

Is this a trick question?

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Originally posted by NeoPhono No, I'm using Mexicans as an example because of a post earlier that specifically specified them. I'm not going to name one nationality when it comes to illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is just that no matter what the country of origin. The result of an illegal immigrant on a nation from one country is no less than that from any other country. Mexico may be the biggest source of illegal immigrants, but it is a problem that needs attention no matter where the immigrant is coming from.

And let me tell you ( if I didnt allready or if no one else did allready ) The US has the info of all the Illegal Inmigrants, but you know what, the US needs this illegal inmigrants, its part of the system. This inmigrants contribute grately into the economy, TAXES ( << SHould I bold that ? ).. its not even funny. Greenspan even said, legalizing the inmigrants would solve a whole lot of problems with the Social Security issue AND the countr's own security. There's no better option.. MAking them MORE underground just makes it worst. One thing that I agree with is MINIMIZING the amount of legal inmigrants, but NOT cutting the benefits to them.. instead they are here allready, with family's, the least that could be done is help them out, educate them, and get their ability's to help this country. I say this because in my school at least, Im friends with a load of international kids, England, Brazil, Argentina, Russia, Israel, ( Lots of Israelis ! ).. and they are illegal, but you know what, ?!?! This are the brightest !!.. they make up the top 10% of the class.. and guess what, they dont get scholarships nor benefits just for the fact of not been a resident or not having that opportunitty.. this is a struggle for a country like the US.. who needs and actually is based on this people. The fact that 9/11 happened, it has ever since included all this innocent people with the terrorists and treating them as if they were gonna terrorize.. I guess you would have to know and be in the situation to actually know, and thats why I say this.

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Originally posted by LiquidX And let me tell you ( if I didnt allready or if no one else did allready ) The US has the info of all the Illegal Inmigrants, but you know what, the US needs this illegal inmigrants, its part of the system. This inmigrants contribute grately into the economy, TAXES ( << SHould I bold that ? ).. its not even funny. Greenspan even said, legalizing the inmigrants would solve a whole lot of problems with the Social Security issue AND the countr's own security. There's no better option.. MAking them MORE underground just makes it worst. One thing that I agree with is MINIMIZING the amount of legal inmigrants, but NOT cutting the benefits to them.. instead they are here allready, with family's, the least that could be done is help them out, educate them, and get their ability's to help this country. I say this because in my school at least, Im friends with a load of international kids, England, Brazil, Argentina, Russia, Israel, ( Lots of Israelis ! ).. and they are illegal, but you know what, ?!?! This are the brightest !!.. they make up the top 10% of the class.. and guess what, they dont get scholarships nor benefits just for the fact of not been a resident or not having that opportunitty.. this is a struggle for a country like the US.. who needs and actually is based on this people. The fact that 9/11 happened, it has ever since included all this innocent people with the terrorists and treating them as if they were gonna terrorize.. I guess you would have to know and be in the situation to actually know, and thats why I say this.

minimize LEGAL immigration and increase ILLEGAL immigration? right

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