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Re: Re: jerusalem the capital, duh
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| Originally posted by George Smiley Jerusalem isn't even in Israel so how can it be capital?! |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer how about we annihilate you instead? |
Re: Re: Re: jerusalem the capital, duh
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| Originally posted by Yoepus Hmm, you rasie an outstanding point Georegy! I believe it is time to tell all the politicians, judges, bureaucrates, and other officials that it is time to leave their courts, parlimentary buildings, and offices, because they aren't in Israel. You might also want to bring this late breaking news to the attention of Mr. Bush who plans to move the US Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.... |
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| Originally posted by ronk Jerusalem, by the way, is a part of Israel and its capital ever since it was built by King David. and I'd like a link to the "international community" where they say Jerusalem isn't a part of Israel and isn't Israel's capital city. |
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| THE UK POSITION ON JERUSALEM Jerusalem was supposed to be a 'corpus separatum', or international city administered by the UN. But this was never set up: immediately after the UNGA resolution partitioning Palestine, Israel occupied West Jerusalem and Jordan occupied East Jerusalem (including the Old City). We recognised the de facto control of Israel and Jordan, but not sovereignty. In 1967, Israel occupied East Jerusalem, which we continue to consider is under illegal military occupation by Israel. Our Embassy to Israel is in Tel Aviv, not Jerusalem. In East Jerusalem we have a Consulate-General, with a Consul-General who is not accredited to any state: this is an expression of our view that no state has sovereignty over Jerusalem. The UK position was formally expressed in April 1950, when HMG extended simultaneous de jure recognition to both Jordan and Israel. However, the statement withheld recognition of the sovereignty of either Jordan or Israel over the sectors of the city which each then held, within the area of the corpus separatum as stipulated in UN General Assembly Resolution 303 (IV) of 1949. In the British view, no such recognition was possible before a final determination of the status of this area, although HMG did recognise that both Jordan and Israel exercised 'de facto authority' over those parts of the city and area which each held. After the 1967 war, with Israel occupying all of Jerusalem, the Israeli Government immediately extended its civil law to the whole city, simultaneously greatly enlarging the municipal boundaries into the West Bank. This purported annexation of East Jerusalem was reaffirmed in 1980 when Israel enacted its 'Jerusalem Law', formally declaring East and West Jerusalem together, 'whole and united', to be 'the capital of Israel'. The UK rejects these Israeli measures to change the status of Jerusalem. The UN Security Council unanimously adopted Resolution 478 of 1980 in response to the Israeli annexation, declaring it to be a violation of international law; the British Government has reiterated and amplified this position many times since. HMG's formal position is based on the 1950 statement: it recognises that Israel exercises de facto authority in West Jerusalem and, from 1950 to 1967, recognised that Jordan exercised de facto authority in East Jerusalem. Since the war of 1967, HMG has regarded Israel as being in military occupation of East Jerusalem, and in this connection subject to the rules of law applicable to such an occupation, in particular the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949. HMG also holds that the provisions of Security Council Resolution 242 on the withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the 1967 war applies to East Jerusalem. The Venice Declaration and subsequent statements (both by the UK alone and with EU partners) have made clear that no unilateral attempts to change the status of Jerusalem are valid. The UK believes that the city's status has yet to be determined, and maintains that it should be settled in an overall agreement between the parties concerned, but considers that the city should not again be divided. The Declaration of Principles and the Interim Agreement, signed by Israel and the PLO on 13 September 1993 and 28 September 1995 respectively, left the issue of the status of Jerusalem to be decided in the 'permanent status' negotiations between the two parties. link |
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| Originally posted by ronk the palestinians are scumbags who kill innocent people! did you freaking know that a palestinian women was about to blow herself up in an Israeli hospital (where I was hospitalized a year ago, and you can't even imagine the numerous arabs who were hospitalized there too) if it weren't a soldier who stopped her in the right moment?! or..do you know about the bombing yesterday in Netania, after 5 MONTHS of cease fire?! |
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| Originally posted by George Smiley Also I'm not sure but I dont think Jerusalem was ever part of the Kingdom of Israel (altho I might have got that the wrong way round) as the Kingdom of Israel only compromised [which ever one is the northern region - Judia or Samaria I have no idea which way round they are!] which did not include Jerusalem (I'll try and find a link cos I may be mistaken on that part) |
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| The Bible talks about the great and magnificent united monarchy of David and Solomon in the 10th century BCE, which split into two kingdoms, Israel and Judah, because of the demand by Solomon's son, Rehoboam (Rehavam), for excessive tax payments from the tribes of the northern hills and Galilee, which thereupon angrily seceded from the united monarchy. The result was two centuries of strife, wars and fraternal hatred. The Scriptures treat Israel as a secondary kingdom of no importance, a place of incorrigible sinners, whereas Judah is considered the great and just kingdom whose capital is Jerusalem, where King Solomon established a splendid temple during the glorious era of the united monarchy. Finkelstein is dubious about the existence of this great united monarchy. "There is no archaeological evidence for it," he says. "This is something unexampled in history. I don't think there is any other place in the world where there was a city with such a wretched material infrastructure but which succeeded in creating such a sweeping movement in its favor as Jerusalem, which even in its time of greatness was a joke in comparison to the cities of Assyria, Babylon or Egypt. It was a typical mountain village. There is no magnificent finding, no gates of Nebuchadnezzar, no Assyrian reliefs, no Egyptian temples - nothing. Even the temple couldn't compete with the temples of Egypt and their splendor." Then why was it written? "For reasons of ideology. Because the authors of the Bible, people from Judah at the end of the seventh century BCE, in the period of King Josiah, had a long score to settle with the northern kingdom, with its splendor and richness. They despised the northerners and had not forgotten their dominance in forging the Israelite experience, in the competition for the sites of ritual. Contrary to what is usually thought, the Israelites did not go to pray in Jerusalem. They had a temple in Samaria (today's Sebastia) and at Beit El (Bethel). In our book we tried to show that as long as Israel was there, Judah was small and frightened, militarily and internationally. Judah and Jerusalem were on the fringes. A small tribe. There was nothing there. A small temple and that's all." And the kingdom of Israel? "The archaeological findings show that Israel was a large, prosperous state, and was the main story until its destruction in the eighth century. Its geographic location was excellent, on the coast, near Phoenicia, Assyria and Syria. It had a diverse demographic composition: foreign residents and workers, Canaanites, Phoenicians; there was an Aramean population in the Jordan Valley, and there were mixed marriages. It was only 150 years after Israel's destruction that Judah rose to greatness, becoming self-aware and developing the monotheistic approach: one state, one God, one capital, one temple, one king." What is the root of the tension between archaeology and the text, and what happened during Josiah's reign? "We think these ideas of Judah, that all the Israelites have to worship one God in one temple, and live under the rule of one king, sprang up in the seventh century BCE. If anyone had raised such ideas aloud before 720, he would have been beaten to a pulp by the northern monarchs. Everything started to come together after the destruction of the kingdom of Israel, and it also had a territorial aspect: from 734 to 625 BCE the Assyrian Empire ruled here. Today's American empire is negligible in comparison, in terms of its power and its crushing strength. For example, if someone in Judah had talked about expansion into Assyrian-dominated territories in 720, that would have been the end of him. King Hezekiah tried, and we saw happened to him. Sennacherib, king of Assyria, arrived with a huge army and decimated him. "But a few years later, when Josiah was in power, something incredible happened. Assyria, the kingdom of evil, collapsed in front of his eyes. In the same way we saw the Berlin Wall collapse in 1989, that's what happened to Assyria. It fell apart and beat a hasty retreat from the Land of Israel. By this time the kingdom of Israel no longer existed, so Josiah woke up one morning, looked to his left and to his right, and there was neither an Assyrian nor an Israelite to be seen. And then his officials decided to put into practice their religious and territorial ideas." Still, why was the United Monarchy invented? "Because they wanted to seize control of the territories of the kingdom of Israel and annex them, because, they said, `These territories are actually ours and if you have a minute, we'll tell you how that's so. `Many years ago, one of our kings, David, reigned in Jerusalem and ruled them, and we are the only ones who have a historical claim to them' - and so the myth was created. `The kings of Israel were scoundrels,' the people of Judah said, `but as for the people there, we have no problem with them, they are all right.' They said about Israel what an ultra-Orthodox person would say about you or me: `Israel, though he has sinned, is still Israel.'" link |
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| Do you know every single Palestinian? |
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| Also I'm not sure but I dont think Jerusalem was ever part of the Kingdom of Israel (altho I might have got that the wrong way round) as the Kingdom of Israel only compromised [which ever one is the northern region - Judia or Samaria I have no idea which way round they are!] which did not include Jerusalem (I'll try and find a link cos I may be mistaken on that part) |
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| So Jerusalem was the capital of Judah, not Israel |
). so, Jerusalem belongs to us Jewish, Israel belongs to us Jewish -->> Jerusalem belongs to Israel.
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| Originally posted by ronk no, but most of them support terrorism. |
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| about that link...... the title says it all: "THE UK POSITION ON JERUSALEM" I don't give a damn about the uk position on Jerusalem, because they occupied Israel 50 +/- years ago! who the hell are them to decide whether Jerusalem is a part of Israel or not?! |
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| look, King David occupied the area from the Jebusites who no longer exist, and built the city of Jerusalem in Israel. hence Jerusalem belong to the Jewish people and is a part of Israel. moreover, the Jewish people are all offsprings of the people of Judah (that's why we're called Jewish -> Judah, Jewish, Judah, Jewish, Judah..... ). so, Jerusalem belongs to us Jewish, Israel belongs to us Jewish -->> Jerusalem belongs to Israel. |
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| Originally posted by ronk Israel belong to us, it's only Britain who gave the palestinians a promise about some parts of this land, because they were afraid of terror acts from them against the british who lived and ruled here 50� years ago. but you call us terrorists? the palestinians are scumbags who kill innocent people! did you freaking know that a palestinian women was about to blow herself up in an Israeli hospital (where I was hospitalized a year ago, and you can't even imagine the numerous arabs who were hospitalized there too) if it weren't a soldier who stopped her in the right moment?! or..do you know about the bombing yesterday in Netania, after 5 MONTHS of cease fire?! Jerusalem, by the way, is a part of Israel and its capital ever since it was built by King David. and I'd like a link to the "international community" where they say Jerusalem isn't a part of Israel and isn't Israel's capital city. |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King AHHAHHAHA... i bet you arent even middle eastern.. you are caucasian. You have NO ANCESTRY IN PALESTINE!!! And dont give me your moses shit. KING DAVID??? haahhahah why dont the persians go into IRaq since Darius made Babylon the persian empires capital THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO???? Get real.. you zionists use ancient scriptures and religion to justify an only jewish land. Thats pathetic and lame. You may have a religious connection to Palestine/Israel.. but the indeginous palestinian population has a stronger connection to that land. THey were there for thousands of years after the Jews were exp[elled... generations after generations of palestinians have been residing there, cultivating the land.. living in a peaceful peasant state... up until those horrible zionist monsters ravaged, raped and STOLE this land. THIEVES... thats what you will be ... Your people will continue to be cursed in that region, they will never be accepted. Even Europe condemns you guys. The only friend you have is America...and thats becuase you have a chritian zionist moron as your president along with a strong jewish lobby |
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| Originally posted by ronk heh, you made my left ball smile |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King You have balls? |
now that made my right ball laugh.
So, one ball is smiling while the other is having a hearty laugh?
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| Originally posted by Shakka So, one ball is smiling while the other is having a hearty laugh? |
google does it again:
http://www.luxner.com/cgi-bin/view_...i?articleID=305
4 Embassies in Jerusalem. Article was dated 2000. There might be more in 2005. But its basically like I said, a small number. 2 in Jerusalem 'proper', 2 in the suburbs. All Latin American.
Then again, I don't know how many embassies there are in total in Israel...
Well I take it all back! If El Salvador and Costa Rica recognise Israeli sovereignty then what more do I need!? 
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| Originally posted by George Smiley Well I take it all back! If El Salvador and Costa Rica recognise Israeli sovereignty then what more do I need!? |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus Glad we agree! |
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| Originally posted by George Smiley Apparently America passed an act recognising Israeli soveriegnty over Jerusalem in 2002 (link) but I guess thats not important now I know Costa Rica recognises it too! |
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(Also, do these countries recognise all the city or just the West? |
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In fact does Israel even claim the East? I know Israel want the PA to have its capital in al-Quds which is cheating slightly but do they claim the East of the city for themselves?) |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r My point exactly. Thanks. |
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| Originally posted by ronk no, but most of them support terrorism. |
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| look, King David occupied the area from the Jebusites who no longer exist, and built the city of Jerusalem in Israel. hence Jerusalem belong to the Jewish people and is a part of Israel. moreover, the Jewish people are all offsprings of the people of Judah (that's why we're called Jewish -> Judah, Jewish, Judah, Jewish, Judah..... ). so, Jerusalem belongs to us Jewish, Israel belongs to us Jewish -->> Jerusalem belongs to Israel. |
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| hmmm they are fighting the occupation and that doesnt make them a terrorist. |
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| lol so because of the pussy zionists are allowd to occupy any land where and whenever they want? well I say fuck King David then |
but I didn't say we're allowed to occupy any land we want.Re: Re: Re: Re: Hamas to keep on killin'....
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King WOW!!.. what a smart response!!! |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus The cool part was that if the President did not move the embassy and did not exercise the "security risk" option Congress would cut the State Department's budget by 50%. Now that I would like to see!!! |
oh and yes by the way George, Jerusalem was the capital of Israel in the bible. the fact that the kingdom splitted to Northern Israel and Judah doesn't change the fact that when we're talking about Israel, not a part of it (Northern Israel or Judah) - then its capital is Jerusalem.
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