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-- structuring a track
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i mean i kinda had his idea in mind, but not as far out and cool as he put it... but the best way to cure a crackaddict is to gradually subtract little bits from daily doses... meaning I probably won't do an all out electro trance structure by the next track, since it's not my taste and vision right now, but seeing with this very good advice, I will slowly rely less on other trance tracks to supply an arrangement for my own.

Hej man!?
I somehow don't understand this - or your problem.
Your tracks sound great - one gets released on Vandit and on the probably most often sold EDM Mix-CD worldwide -
why are you pretending or thinking that you don't know what your doing??
just keep on doing - you'll invent your own theory about arrangements, because you - in contrast to most of the other guys around here - are so many steps ahead that you can afford not wasting time on thinking about theory.

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Originally posted by Djack you can afford not wasting time on thinking about theory.

Well if everybody did that, we'd still be listening to elvis.

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Originally posted by Aquarian Well if everybody did that, we'd still be listening to elvis.

I didn't mean that.
I just wanted to say - there's that sentence in German, I don't know if it exists in English too, similar to "Don't put your own light under ...", means don't make yourself smaller than you are. That's just what I meant.

no critizism or anything intended!!

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Originally posted by gerrycueto I mean you guys catch that because you're producers, arrangers, musicians, but as far as the average listener is concerned? Does having the same arrangement as a previous track they liked help them enjoy your track more? So far I've noticed that it does... it must be some sort of psychological thing... people want to know what's gonna happen next.

Here's my take on it - and this isn't genre specific, because throughout the years I've listened to a huge amount of trance, house, breaks, D&B, etc., so this applies to any kind of music:

Tracks that sound "familiar" in any way - melody, drums, synth design, arrangement - increase its chances of being *instantly* liked. It's like when you see a girl on the street that looks exactly like your ex, you'll always stare for a few seconds at least. With music it's a little less obvious - a track may remind someone of another track they really liked, but they're not as likely to realize *which* track, so they don't realize it's been "ripped off" so to speak (I'm not saying you're a ripoff, just trying to speak in the clearest terms possible).

However, as the saying goes, familiarity breeds contempt. And just as a familiar track is more likely to get some lovin' on the first listen, people who've heard many similar tracks are also going to get sick of it much faster. That's why so many TAs (and music listeners in general) are so fickle - one day they are saying "OMG YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO THIS NEW TRACK*&#@%!!!!one" and 3 days later they have another flavour of the week. It's because they've heard the sound before, whether they realize it or not, and after they've had their little fling listening to it 10 times in a row, they've had enough.

If you're trying to be original, it's obviously much harder to have your track(s) noticed and liked. But if you do a good job, IMHO the rewards are greater. First of all, you get a track that YOU can still listen to and enjoy in 6 months, even after you've heard it 10,000 times in the studio. If you're lucky, you'll get the "progressive" label - not progressive as in the genre, but progressive as in making progress in the world of music production. It might take longer for an original track to get recognized for what it's worth, but when it does, it stands a better chance of being the next blockbuster that's loved by everyone and played on every single DJ mix from now to next year.

Some perfect examples of truly original work have already been given:

• Hybrid - Finished Symphony is one of the most obvious (many other Hybrid tracks too - these guys are truly brilliant, and a great source of inspiration to me personally).
  
• Basement Jaxx crossed the boundary between house music and mainstream listeners with the sleazy sound in "Rendez Vouz" that could just as well have come out of a porn soundtrack.
  
• I don't think I even need to explain about Aphex Twin, who paved the way for the entire IDM genre of music.
  
• I also don't think I need to explain about Sasha, who brought his "progressive" genre into the mainstream with Xpander.

See what I'm getting at here... there are thousands upon thousands of "good" tracks out there, and if you're going for "good" then by all means, don't do anything that has not been done before! But if you want a track that's going to be remembered 10 years later or even 1 year later, you have to be original.

That's my take on it, anyway. You're all fully entitled to disagree.

I think this is what genre classifications are for. You can innovate all you want, and there's nothing wrong with that - that's how new kinds of music get created. But you can't always do something that's never been done before - and sometimes you really do want to hear tracks that sound like other tracks. That's why we're able to say terms like "anthem trance" or "psy-trance" and etcetera. Because there's hundreds of tracks that sound similar enough to name a genre after them. That's a good thing. People have specific tastes, and when they find a track they like, they'll typically try to find other tracks that sound similar.

Indeed, we have genres like anthem trance and psytrance, and tracks within them sound similar.

And yet, somehow, almost everyone can tell an Infected Mushroom track apart from any other psytrance. Most people would recognize a new Ferry Corsten production, even if they haven't heard it before, because of his recent electro/rock influences.

Paul van Dyk made his mark on the trance world years ago with For An Angel nearly a decade ago. And sure, there have been lots of imitations, remixes, and similar tracks done since then - but do any of them actually stand out? Does anybody remember "PvD - For An Angel (xxxx Mix?)" or any of the other lame rip-offs/mash-ups?

Plagiarism can get you surprisingly far in life. But it will never get you to the top.

My two cents on arranging: You should get five to ten of yr favorite traxxx together, put them on a mix cd, and listen to said cd every other day or so, and dance yr ASS off while you listen. after a couple of weeks, yr body will know by feel how to build a trance track, and then yr ideas will bypass yr analytical brain and come straight out into yr music. Yr ass knows what kind of music it wants, and it will soon know how to make it. Trust the ass, trust the ass...

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Originally posted by I_LUV_PVD My two cents on arranging: You should get five to ten of yr favorite traxxx together, put them on a mix cd, and listen to said cd every other day or so, and dance yr ASS off while you listen. after a couple of weeks, yr body will know by feel how to build a trance track, and then yr ideas will bypass yr analytical brain and come straight out into yr music. Yr ass knows what kind of music it wants, and it will soon know how to make it. Trust the ass, trust the ass...

That will only lead to the generic trance structure which is exactly the thing we don't want here...

i think my arrangement suffers a little bit, but it all comes with practice just like everything else.

when im arranging my track, thoughts just pop up into my head as i listen and i come in with wot i think should be next, and these thoughts continue until ive progressed to the end of my track. i dont think this is a bad idea as it all comes from my own head although it is probably just a bunch of everyone else's transitions etc that i remeber, but atleast its still mainly original. i still use a basic structure tho, intro, small breakdown, back in and build tension, breakdown, -i like big epic buildups here-, then its the apex of the track, then start breaking it all down and out it goes.

i think ive lost myself as im writing this so i'll stop now, lol.

This idea of producing with different styles is an awesome one. I have found that I can make tracks in other genres much easier than in the trance genre. I think this is because I have heard so much of it and tried to make so much. When I tried a drum n bass track, I pounded it out in a couple days. Then I tried to go back to trance... didnt work. Then I tried an industrial sound. Smacked that out in about 10 minutes. My friend likes it (listened to it on repeat until it stopped working :crazy... I dont know if its really that great. The thing I have come to realize is that when I try to remake something I listen to all the time, I fail. When I put on my creative hat, I can really get working.

its all about experimenting and trying new things, & being different!

quote:

[b]Originally posted by gerrycueto [/b So like I guess what was posted... it's probably not a wrong or right thing to do, just there's the difference between a copy and an original.

Well personally i don't think its at all ripping someone off if you simply copy the arrangement style. I mean essentially its like copying the foundation for the design of a building. Everything else is gonna be completely different, and no one will be able to tell that you in any way took an idea from someone, because you didn't.

I mean the basslines, synths, break downs, drum patterns and fx will be different, therefore the song is different.

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