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Posted by djgilla on Jul-24-2005 23:49:

This is a very intereseting thread and I will dive in to it more when I am at home on my comp. For the time being, there are alot of valid comments here. I don't know all too much about Ableton and all its functions but whats with the prerecording? Seemed to me like there was a prerecorded set and some midi action going on thats it. I was asked at 1AM to come back on stage because Acosta was not there yet and the set was about to end. Seems like there is no way to adjust to your environment as a dj if u pre-programmed everything. All I can say is what has happened to the artform and culture of djing? Is it behind laptops now? Yes, I agree its still a form of djing but where is the creativity? Is this where djing is headed for the future?

Posted by Clovis on Jul-25-2005 00:03:

quote:
Originally posted by djgilla
This is a very intereseting thread and I will dive in to it more when I am at home on my comp. For the time being, there are alot of valid comments here. I don't know all too much about Ableton and all its functions but whats with the prerecording? Seemed to me like there was a prerecorded set and some midi action going on thats it. I was asked at 1AM to come back on stage because Acosta was not there yet and the set was about to end. Seems like there is no way to adjust to your environment as a dj if u pre-programmed everything. All I can say is what has happened to the artform and culture of djing? Is it behind laptops now? Yes, I agree its still a form of djing but where is the creativity?

Gil...I gotta show you how Ableton works sometime

Tania was using Live 4, and she had most of the tracks she was going to play oloaded into her Live screen from startup (from what I could see). I watched her screen and the set WAS NOT pre-recorded. It is VERY easy to tell in Live if a set has been pre-recorded.

The problem arose, in the fact that....being that she only expected to play about an hour at both her gigs in the states, I am sure she did not take a very large amount of tracks with her. Ableton 4 uses only .wav files....which for an entire track come out to something like 200-250 MB in size. You can easily see how this could be a problem...four tracks take up ONE GIG of hard drive space. Most Live DJs bring along extra firewire hard drives just to bring more tracks with them...especially if you're going to play 3-4 hours.

The problem Tania faced seemed to be that her "record bag" was not very big...she couldnt just bust out harder tracks while opening for Acosta. But I think she ended up doing a pretty good job in terms of how well her set flowed.

Also...I didnt see any "Midi Action" like you say...in fact I didnt say any Midi being used at all. That M-Audio controller is a Midi keyboard but Tania was just using that to control Ableton. I saw a few of the knobs were handling the effects, while some keys selected the Audio channel in Live. (okay I guess you guys dont know what I'm talking about now...lol)

Anyways...you guys should all give it a try before you start ripping a tool you know nothing about.

My latest Ableton mix will be up shortly...lol

Posted by nchs09 on Jul-25-2005 00:08:

quote:
Originally posted by Clovis86
lol...I like it how when people give reasons why they dont like Ableton...the reasons...never have anything to do with Ableton...

Ableton is a tool, how the DJ uses it is another matter...just like with any medium.
well..... i think it has everything to do with it. here is y

when sasha came here to atl. his set was full of songs WITH other song samples over it. which would be nearly impossible to do with vinyl/ cd unless he recorded only one sound and burn it into a cd.

so the sampling i think its overrated and i do not like it. he also put different bass on different songs and couldnt get it quiet right.
his bass sounded bad. and iv seen morillo do this with just cd and vinyl and got it done better.

now y i say program is to blame because iv heard sasha mix with out it and it sounds compleatly different. maybe he is changing his style sound wise. but mixing should still be up to par and i feel its not.

/ddid that make sence?

Posted by Clovis on Jul-25-2005 00:12:

quote:
Originally posted by nchs09
well..... i think it has everything to do with it. here is y

when sasha came here to atl. his set was full of songs WITH other song samples over it. which would be nearly impossible to do with vinyl/ cd unless he recorded only one sound and burn it into a cd.

so the sampling i think its overrated and i do not like it. he also put different bass on different songs and couldnt get it quiet right.
his bass sounded bad. and iv seen morillo do this with just cd and vinyl and got it done better.

now y i say program is to blame because iv heard sasha mix with out it and it sounds compleatly different. maybe he is changing his style sound wise. but mixing should still be up to par and i feel its not.

/ddid that make sence?

No...Mario...that made no sence

If you think Sasha is not sounding up to par...then thats on HIS end...Ableton is not making him sound bad...he's sounding bad on Ableton (which I disagree with anyway...at least from the sets I've heard).

Posted by Mechgear on Jul-25-2005 00:17:

it has to be said i love ableton, i love bootlegging and producing riffs on the move with it.

That said i have tried mixing with it and didnt get anywhere the same feel as i do when mixin on cd's and vinyl. Thus i dont like it to mix on, which probably makes me biased against dj's that do use it.

(and dont get me wrong about g&d i love the guys as people its just the way they have mixed the past few times i have seen them & always when they are mixing in ableton that i dislike the lack of energy.)

Nick

Posted by Clovis on Jul-25-2005 00:18:

quote:
Originally posted by Mechgear
it has to be said i love ableton, i love bootlegging and producing riffs on the move with it.

That said i have tried mixing with it and didnt get anywhere the same feel as i do when mixin on cd's and vinyl. Thus i dont like it to mix on, which probably makes me biased against dj's that do use it.

(and dont get me wrong about g&d i love the guys as people its just the way they have mixed the past few times i have seen them & always when they are mixing in ableton that i dislike the lack of energy.)

Nick

Fair points mate. In the end Ableton is just another tool...the quality of any show will be determined by the person using it. But I know for a FACT that in the right hands it can be AMAZING.

Posted by Mechgear on Jul-25-2005 00:19:

i suppose once i see zabiella play on it i'll be a convert to the power of it for mixing, but nothing YET has made me feel that hehe

(and im not against being proved wrong on this one for a change lol)

Posted by nchs09 on Jul-25-2005 00:20:

quote:
Originally posted by Clovis86
No...Mario...that made no sence

If you think Sasha is not sounding up to par...then thats on HIS end...Ableton is not making him sound bad...he's sounding bad on Ableton (which I disagree with anyway...at least from the sets I've heard).
i think the tool is ok. i just dont like it its all.

and yes iv heard better usege of it. maybe hes not so good with it.

btw clovis. u suck.

and now back t0 c0r i go

Posted by jethro on Jul-25-2005 20:04:

quote:
Originally posted by Bob_Motamedi
But what stops a dishonest DJ from pre recording a set and playing it?

jump around and pretend that you are playing???

ala BT? lol

Posted by Zombie0729 on Jul-25-2005 22:54:

i've moved to ableton, best decision i've ever made. If anyone could watch the greats on ableton you'd realize where DJing is really going.

Subtlties have always had huge effects on large systems and now with so many options to truly personalizing a mix and a sound there is no doubt that DJing is better for it.

Who wants to sound like everyone else especially in a field like music, where creativity is everything

Posted by Clovis on Jul-25-2005 22:55:

quote:
Originally posted by Zombie0729
i've moved to ableton, best decision i've ever made. If anyone could watch the greats on ableton you'd realize where DJing is really going.

Subtlties have always had huge effects on large systems and now with so many options to truly personalizing a mix and a sound there is no doubt that DJing is better for it.

Who wants to sound like everyone else especially in a field like music, where creativity is everything

Amen Anthony well put!

Posted by Tigo on Jul-25-2005 22:57:

Posted by hoangad on Jul-26-2005 15:45:

you guys are all fools.

Posted by JenniferRene on Jul-26-2005 19:07:

DJ = DISC Jockey

Maybe we should call them LJ�s instead?

On a serious note-I don�t care either way as long as they play my music and make me smile, I�ll remain one happy little girl

Posted by Clovis on Jul-26-2005 19:08:

quote:
Originally posted by hoangad
you guys are all fools.

OMggGGGG DJ SAMMYYYY!!111

Posted by tjpatel on Jul-26-2005 19:09:

quote:
Originally posted by JenniferRene
DJ = DISC Jockey

Maybe we should call them LJ�s instead?

On a serious note-I don�t care either way as long as they play my music and make me smile, I�ll remain one happy little girl

ciao how u doing

Posted by JenniferRene on Jul-26-2005 19:37:

quote:
Originally posted by tjpatel
ciao how u doing

hey...i'm outstanding.

p.s. i hope you're not really 73

Posted by Clovis on Jul-26-2005 19:44:

quote:
Originally posted by JenniferRene
hey...i'm outstanding.

p.s. i hope you're not really 73

Subtract 60.

Posted by Boomer187 on Jul-26-2005 19:51:

i tried out ableton 5, i gotta say, I was bored using it. i loaded in a few mp3's, some loops, and hit play a few times.

I have to say that laptop djin is too bland for me. Yes you can put 45 different basslines over the same song, along with 67 vocal tracks at teh same time, all in perfect time, but thats not my style I guess. I really don't get extra excited to hear an extra lead on a track, or much else on it. It might be useful for accapellas, but I don't really dig much else it can do.

so yes, I do not like ableton.

for now. hehehe, I know it is a producers dream though. They are always notorious for bad djin, but this tool, they can get out and play their tracks just like any ol dj. so its good in that regard.

Posted by JenniferRene on Jul-26-2005 19:51:

quote:
Originally posted by Clovis86
Subtract 60.

LOL

Posted by JenniferRene on Jul-26-2005 19:57:

quote:
Originally posted by Boomer187

for now. hehehe, I know it is a producers dream though. They are always notorious for bad djin, but this tool, they can get out and play their tracks just like any ol dj. so its good in that regard.

i agree. i wonder what some of them out there would do if they got their laptops taken away and had to do a live show without them. i'd like to see who can really DJ and who just likes to label themselves as one.

Posted by Zombie0729 on Jul-26-2005 20:02:

quote:
Originally posted by Boomer187
for now. hehehe, I know it is a producers dream though. They are always notorious for bad djin, but this tool, they can get out and play their tracks just like any ol dj. so its good in that regard.

every 'big' DJ we know is big because of his productions, thats why they get the big gigs.

Very rarely, VERY rarely do you see big DJ's w/ no productions under their belt. So to say, Producers make bad DJ's, you're labeling every major DJ as a bad one

Posted by Clovis on Jul-26-2005 20:04:

quote:
Originally posted by Boomer187
i tried out ableton 5, i gotta say, I was bored using it. i loaded in a few mp3's, some loops, and hit play a few times.

I have to say that laptop djin is too bland for me. Yes you can put 45 different basslines over the same song, along with 67 vocal tracks at teh same time, all in perfect time, but thats not my style I guess. I really don't get extra excited to hear an extra lead on a track, or much else on it. It might be useful for accapellas, but I don't really dig much else it can do.

so yes, I do not like ableton.

for now. hehehe, I know it is a producers dream though. They are always notorious for bad djin, but this tool, they can get out and play their tracks just like any ol dj. so its good in that regard.

The thing is...its not about "who can do the craziest shit" on Ableton (45 basslines, 60 vocals), but more about the fact that you can really just concentrate on the MUSIC instead of the whole beatmatching thing (which is an art that will never dissappear I hope). You got dudes like Digweed who are so fucking good at cueing up and beatmatching its like second nature for him...so it doesnt really matter for him.

Posted by DJFaded on Jul-26-2005 20:19:

quote:
Originally posted by Clovis86
You got dudes like Digweed who are so fucking good at cueing up and beatmatching its like second nature for him...so it doesnt really matter for him.

ummm..... I would hope its like that for any "Professional DJ". if you are still struggling with trying to beat match then maybe you should not be playing. Train wrecks will happen and occasionally records will have a skip it in that you cant control, but if you are exerting a great deal in beat matching.. stay home and keep practicing buddy! BTW, I'm no professional so I'm not speaking for myself.

Posted by tjpatel on Jul-26-2005 20:24:

quote:
Originally posted by Clovis86
Subtract 60.

and add 12

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