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Posted by Ang ' ela_ie on Jul-26-2005 04:42:

Bam!

Good post, Tree.

Posted by flavdave on Jul-26-2005 04:46:

You guys should've posted in the Jay-Z thread.

Anyway, Eminem has loads of talent (as evidenced by his freestyles and battles), but the singles he has released have been crap for the most part. His schtick of making fun of other artists and celebrities is wearing thin. The whole thing with Moby just blew out of control in my opinion.

Posted by n0bben on Jul-26-2005 11:58:

quote:
Originally posted by jupiterone
Eminem would be the only kind of rap id listen. The rest is gay. Omfgz baby i want your sweaty boobz adn taht money cash hoez. fucking n00bs.

obviously you only listen to commercial "gangsta" crap then

Posted by isoterra on Jul-26-2005 12:09:

quote:
Originally posted by n0bben
obviously you only listen to commercial "gangsta" crap then

aka hip-pop

Posted by {b.s.e.} on Jul-26-2005 12:13:

quote:
Originally posted by jupiterone
Eminem would be the only kind of rap id listen. The rest is gay. Omfgz baby i want your sweaty boobz adn taht money cash hoez. fucking n00bs.

you obviously have no idea what good hip hop is.

Penny for a thought - Saul Williams

Posted by Lepanto on Jul-26-2005 14:41:

quote:
Originally posted by tribu
I respectfully disagree.

Black people have developed well beyond their african roots and their continental cultural heritage. These are, of course, wonderful things to celebrate and be educated on. However, many people do not have this oppurtunity. They grow up in poor neighborhoods where violence and street smarts are far more rewarding than any of the cultural norms which we tend to celebrate in America. To ignore these poorer people, their emotions, atmospheres, and lifestyles is to ignore (in a capitalistic society) more than a population, but an entire market.

Whether people care to admit it or not, brute force, unchecked sexuality, and lavish displays of wealth are no stranger to American (or any other powerful) culture. Some people are much more willing to embrace it than others, including, I would submit, Tu-Pac and Notorious B.I.G. Their music displayed this and for me this is fine. However, as I argued before, their success (money, fame, women) attracted every person who was interested in similar ends to the same scene and imitators came (and are still coming) at a mile a second. Record companies found a lucrative successful formula and continue to cash in on it. But does this mean Hip hop is dead? No, it just means that commercial hip-hop is based more on money than on quality. You could likely argue the same for Tupac and BIG, but most people didnt bother listening to their full albums, opting only for the radio-"friendly" songs that were released instead and forming opinions based on these topically and musically limited montages.

There's lots of hip-hop out there, just as there are lots of kinds of EDM. Some of it is "gangsta" in nature, some of it is more pensive, and some is incredibly artistic. Extremely rare is a comibnation of these and other successful factors and I feel B.I.G. and Tupac had these cominations; to write them off because they spawned a generation of carbon copies, because you cant see through their topical material to appreciate their genius, or because of nostalgic longing for the past is a diservice to music critique.

Gangsta rap may have killed hip-hop (which I don't really think is dead. People are still making it, aren't they?), but dont blame Tupac and B.I.G. who were merely doing their thing (and quite well). Blame the legions of unoriginal copycats, the money hungry record labels, and the innane fans who bought the crap albums.

Retort:

This has nothing to do with what I said or what hip-hop is. There is nothing to ignore. How does listening to it change or does anything towards the problem except make it worse. Now let's break this down, shall we? By celebration, in musical sense, it suggets, pride and heritage. Not saying tribal African drums, but the African's life here in America. Blue and Soul all "celebrated" Africanism, even when they talked about problems, yet they never used "that nigga gonna steal muh shit, then ima rip him to bits" <--that's nonsense. Everything you said has nothing to do with how hip-hop evolved and turned into commercial nonsense within the exception of a few artist who still try to be smart and, didn't want to go here but I will, not be conditioned like Mos Def and Talib Kweli's song talks about.

If you think that mainstream or gangsta rap music really talks about these problems in the sake of making them better you're clearly mistaken and should go listen to a couple of songs from The Game's album and then tell me how is insightful or whatever it's "supposed" to be.

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