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-- Did the Bush administration deliberately mislead the public of Saddams WMD'S?
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Yes.
I just think that if Saddam had the weapons the US claimed he had, Sattelite images would easily prove that.
*Puts on tin hat and waits for the flaming to begin*

I was not one who subscribed to the view that the administration �lied,� though certainly I believed they had exaggerated the threat Saddam posed. I believed from the start the Iraq war was a mistake and unnecessary.

Even that sense of guarded skepticism has been shattered.

Yes I do now believe the administration intentionally misled (read: �lied to�) Congress (by withholding key intelligence) and the public (through shills in the media like Judeth Miller) to build support for war.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10164478

quote:

Report: 9/11-Iraq link refuted days after attack Magazine says administration refused to give key docs to Senate committee Updated: 7:09 p.m. ET Nov. 22, 2005 Ten days after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, President Bush was advised that U.S. intelligence found no credible connection linking the attacks to the regime of Saddam Hussein, or evidence suggesting linkage between Saddam and the al-Qaida terrorist network, according to a published report. The report, published Tuesday in The National Journal, cites government records, as well as present and former officials with knowledge of the issue. The information in the story, written by National Journal contributor Murray Waas, points to an abiding administration concern for secrecy that extended to keeping information from the Senate committee charged with investigating the matter. In one of the Journal report's more compelling disclosures, Saddam is said to have viewed al-Qaida as a threat, rather than a potential ally. -more

This unquestionably warrants impeachment.

quote:

Originally posted by Jackson Yes. I just think that if Saddam had the weapons the US claimed he had, Sattelite images would easily prove that. *Puts on tin hat and waits for the flaming to begin*

If there are satellites that can find natural resources buried underground for a few miles they would have found those darn WMD's they keep lusting for and found none.

Shoot, they prolly could have that Tim Osman err I means that Osama fellow.

vote

Deliberatly mislead is a euphamism for one word: "lie." The question is: Did President Bush lie to send our troops off to war? The press has tried to skew this as following poor intelligence to place the blame on the CIA and NSA, and has tried to blame the sources like "curveball" but the fact is they lied. The Niger documents were forged. Powell's presentation to the UN on Saddam's weapons capabilities was a plagarized report from a graduate student's project. Curveball was a known drunk and liar by the CIA and Ahmed Chalabi was shown to be passing state secrets to Iran. The OSP (run by Feith and Wurmser) was recieving intel from the Mossad and was going over old intel on Iraq to find stuff that fit their agenda. The OSP was set up inside the Pentagon and none of the intel they recieved or created was screened by the CIA or NSA. CIA agents have testified that, in the time leading up to the war, Cheney frequently visited the CIA and pressured them to find Intel linking Iraq to 911 and to find WMD. Blix testified he found no indications of WMD. Moreover, the PNAC group authored and signed a document sent to Bill Clinton near the end of his 2nd term that layed out a case to attack Iraq (despite the fact that UN reports showed the sanctions were having devistating effects, albet mostly on the poor civilians) that begged Clinton to launch a preemptive strike on Iraq. These are some of the facts, but one should, of course, judge for themselves.

it sounds to me like Rummy's DIA was at fault, too

quote:

Iraqi defector duped CIA, report says excerpt: quote: The CIA never had access to Curveball. Instead, he was controlled by the German intelligence service, which passed along the information it collected to the United States through the Defense Intelligence Agency, a Pentagon spy agency that handled information from Iraqi defectors. Between January 2000 and September 2001, the report said, the DIA disseminated "almost 100 reports" from Curveball, who was seen as a valuable new source. Among his most alarming claims was that Iraq had assembled a fleet of mobile labs to manufacture biological weapons and evade detection. The reports triggered a flurry of escalating U.S. intelligence assessments on Iraq, even though the DIA "did not even attempt to determine Curveball's veracity," according to the report. Curveball's claims were critical to the case for war. An October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate that concluded Iraq had biological weapons was "based almost exclusively on information obtained" from Curveball, according to the report. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...MNGCLC1Q5U1.DTL

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/zbig.html

Bush and his advisors talked of invading Iraq since 1999 when he was a candidate for president. They needed a pretext and 9/11 and WMDs, with the help of a compliant media invested heavily in the war effort, provided the means to rally popular support.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14479271/
Do you think the Bush administration misled Americans on the Iraq war? * 80980 responses
Yes - As Sen. John McCain said, statements like "mission accomplished" underestimated the task ahead.
85%
No - The administration has always made clear the challenges facing the military in Iraq.
14%
I don't know or don't care.
1.2%


OK before those with short memory reply:
The ORIGINAL REASON for the Iraq invasion was that the Saddam Regime had Weapons of Mass Destruction (TM) and he was gonna use them according to both democrats and republicans.
So far the new missions' objectives have been changed more than a baby and his diaper.

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Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC You're still dodging the question ^.

What question is that?

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At the time everyone in the world believed he had WMDs, and Bush didn't know for a fact and purposely lied. Not saying 'there being any wmd's in Iraq'. Thou you already dismissed the Sarin they found...

Sarin doesn't count because Bush and Co. aren't shouting from the rooftops that these are counted as WMD's. But keep ignoring that the hunt for WMDs are over. If you're going to hang onto antiquated sarin from the first gulf war as a means to invade then your diluted. I bet you don't even know what those investigators were looking for. You just stomped on down the recruiters office so you can play real life playstation socom.

quote:

So your arguement fails. You keep going 'NO WMDs OMG, and he knew it yadayadayad!'. Well every intelligence agency in the world thought he did. You must think the CIA is uber that it knows all and Bush knew for a fact all WMD programs were verifiably dismantled according to UN resolutions huh? Shish lol. You give the CIA too much credit.

Your argument fails when you keep saying that there are WMDs. The hunt for them is officially over if you actually read a paper or looked online for news articles to find this out.

The CIA is not in the business of finding facts. You are the one that gives them credit. If they and other intelligence agencies say that they thought that Saddam had some NBC stockpiles and were found out to be wrong then it makes them out to look as if they can't do their job. On the other side of that coin you have to believe that their possible mandate was not to look for any WMDs but just say anything to lie to get this war started. After all while you schlepped across the desert in Iraq there was a document titled "Rebuilding Americas Defenses by the Project for a New American Century which states things like "while adversaries like Iran, Iraq and North Korea are rushing to develop ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons as a deterrent to American intervention in regions they seek to dominate." or "U.S. nuclear force planning and related arms control policies must take account of a larger set of variables than in the past, including the growing number of small nuclear arsenals � from North Korea to Pakistan to, perhaps soon, Iran and Iraq � and a modernized and expanded Chinese nuclear force." or "Though the immediate mission of those forces is to enforce the no-fly zones over northern and southern Iraq, they represent the long-term commitment of the United States and its major allies to a region of vital importance. Indeed, the United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein."

quote:

Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event � like a new Pearl Harbor.

This document was written in September 2000.

It doesn't take a caveman to figure out just what interests there are in the Gulf region.

quote:

Israeli Subcommittee Faults Intelligence on Iraq An investigation into Israel�s failure to provide accurate intelligence on Iraq�s weapons capabilities found that Israeli intelligence agencies suffered from a closed �information loop,� as well as other failures. The conclusions are the result of an eight-month investigation by the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Subcommittee for Intelligence and Secret Services that questioned intelligence officials, military officers, and Cabinet members. On March 28, the subcommittee released an 81-page declassified report pending the completion of a longer, classified version. The report criticized Israeli intelligence agencies for a number of failures, concluding that the agencies overestimated Iraq�s ability to strike at Israel directly. Likud Knesset member Yuval Steinitz, who headed the investigation, cited an �escalation� between 1998 and the beginning of the war in the number of missiles believed to be possessed by Iraq for which there was �no explanation.� The subcommittee found that Israeli intelligence agencies used information from foreign intelligence services without recognizing that the other states obtained the data from Israel in the first place. The result, according to Steinitz, was that speculation was passed in circles �without any substantiation from the field.� However, Steinitz rejected suggestions that the Israeli agencies intentionally misled the United States and others in hopes of encouraging them to go to war against Iraq, a longtime enemy of Israel. Steinitz criticized Israeli agencies for their failure to develop sources of hard data within Iraq, noting that the United States and the United Kingdom were able to obtain superior intelligence because of their direct access to Iraqi airspace.

Don't forget the Downing Street Memo.

Re: Did the Bush administration deliberately mislead the public of Saddams WMD'S?

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 Did the Bush administration deliberately mislead the public of Saddams WMD'S? Yes No Discuss Flame But be on topic. Other related polls: Can the United States establish a stable, democratic government in Iraq? Did the Bush administration deliberately mislead the public of Saddams WMD'S? Can the United States win the war in Iraq? United States in Iraq Poll: Leave or stay

Why shift from one person that being Bin laden to Saddam in which he knew fine well if the US public were lead to belive of his links with Bin laden he wouldn't have any problem wacking him one again , and also he wanted to finish the job he dad never did .

Also he needed to get UN backin to make it all legal like which itself adds more proof that the US Admin was talking crap , consider Regan never botherd going to the UN after the Pan Am107 looking for permission to attack Lybia he just went and did it .


Lets not forget if there was any truth .. in the supposed links why bother goin thro the UN claimin about WMD , all he should have done was taken him out simple as that saving his court appearance . Surely after 9/11 main priorty was getting Bin laden instead they wasted many months fucking about talking shite just to invade Iraq all what for ,, there natural resources simple as that


And Bin laden is laughin at the US still ..

Poll results are no surprise to me.. he delibretly lied to people.

This unquestionably warrants impeachment. And a war crimes trial in Hague.

i think the administration believed its own lies to a certain extent.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i think the administration believed its own lies to a certain extent.

it happens, it's called groupthink, must of the blunders of the bush administration can be traced to this psychological phenomenon in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by venomX it happens, it's called groupthink, must of the blunders of the bush administration can be traced to this psychological phenomenon in my opinion.

their reallt full .........

GWB the mark2 model doesnt seem to be able to think, speak (or much less make sense doing both at the same time) and find his own arse with both hands, so it doesnt really suprise me he couldnt find something which at best seemed to be rumours. Seemed to sell the idea to a few others as well though along with the fact that he thought Saddam was in cahoots with Bin Laden and god told him to go do it.
I mean the last one was the real nail in the whole debacle dooming it to failure when the guy in charge is hearing things from god to apparently go give it to them.

That should be a warning sign to anyone really.

But bleh, some days its not worth chewing through the straps to convince people otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by venomX it happens, it's called groupthink, must of the blunders of the bush administration can be traced to this psychological phenomenon in my opinion.

I dont think Bush beleived in his lies, he always knew he was lieing... but his subordinates like Powell, Rice believed in him.

quote:

Originally posted by Purple I dont think Bush beleived in his lies, he always knew he was lieing... but his subordinates like Powell, Rice believed in him.

Groupthink doesnt involve believing one's own lies or half-truths. It's just the phenomena present in their group decision making process that lead them to not evaluate the information as objectively as they should've, and lead to an erroneous decision.

quote:

60 Minutes: CIA Official Reveals Bush, Cheney, Rice Were Personally Told Iraq Had No WMD in Fall 2002 Tonight on 60 Minutes, Tyler Drumheller, the former chief of the CIA�s Europe division, revealed that in the fall of 2002, President Bush, Vice President Cheney, then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and others were told by CIA Director George Tenet that Iraq�s foreign minister � who agreed to act as a spy for the United States � had reported that Iraq had no active weapons of mass destruction program. Watch it:

According to the Project For A New American Century the short list is:

Iraq
Iran
North Korea

But not in that order.

^^ You beat me to it .

Yes, we were decieved. Thank god president's only have 2 terms.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Yes, we were decieved. Thank god president's only have 2 terms.

the deception is we were decieved.

the deception obviously benefits NOONE, but the people who would like you to think you are being decieved.

this is called politics

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo the deception is we were decieved. the deception obviously benefits NOONE, but the people who would like you to think you are being decieved. this is called politics

Geez, are you really THAT naive?

The deception obviously benefitted the Bush administration, seeing as how they're still in power and not in jail for treason.

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