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quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Yea, the mod's comments for closing the thread certainly were strange... "...try to keep things simple and hebrew"? wtf? lol!

thanks guys for all of your thoughts and responses as well as attempts to talk to the 'other side' and for not turning this into a flame war b/c this is not what this thread was about.

however, it does prove a point and shows again how uncompromising, extreme and short-sighted their points of views actually are.

in this case, this is not a problem that resides in the hands of the powerful few ...


AND that is EXACTLY where we differ and WHY Canada as a SOCIETY just IS for what it is known for internationally.

with your responses and behaviour in this thread, you have proven an important point b/c we have stood our ground in what we identify with not only in Canada but also as part of this smaller community and what we represent as a whole in this scene. ...

call us dull, call us boring but at least we have peace in this country, meaning that we don't have to walk around watching our backs everywhere we go, frightened to get our heads bashed in or be the target of rocks or bullets, or even to be forced out of our homes by force just b/c we have an 'opinion'. these so-called opinions and beliefs we share are based on mutual understanding and respect (most of the time anyways).

the Canadian accepting attitude and a certain open-minded mentality towards each other's differences is what sets us apart. Canada is a country built on the foundations of immigrants from all over the world. we each have our own stories to tell of why we are here. that IS what 'Canadians' are! and that is why people, who flee turmoil, torture and oppression come here. they seek to live a life on a daily basis with some kind of sanity and normalcy without the fear of persecution for whatever reason.

'Canadians' focus on the things that each and every ethnicity, culture and religion in this country has in common. on the grander scale of things, at least we can claim that we try to make it work! i think the majority of immigrants or newcomers do not want to continue their internal wars here on this territory. but it is those who cannot stop harping on passed-down historical grievances from generation to generation, who keep adding fuel to the fire, and who keep that fire simmering below the surface, who are the real problem - which I cannot denying we also have to deal with in Canada, but at least not to those extremes.

however, if one party doesn't back off once and for all, and change its outlook and attitude from the ground up, this ping-pong game of retaliation will go on eternally until the end of times...until we destroy ourselves before mother earth will disintegrate back into the universe...

thank you for restoring some of my faith in the human kind.

PLUR!

Most people that come to Canada from Israel find it very boring here simply because it's a completely different lifestyle...you have to live in both places to get it type of thing

Oh well

quote:

Originally posted by disko-kandi 'Canadians' focus on the things that each and every ethnicity, culture and religion in this country has in common.

No, actually, Canadians focus on the differences between groups, and therein lies the problem with our joke of a "multicultural" culture.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut No, actually, Canadians focus on the differences between groups, and therein lies the problem with our joke of a "multicultural" culture.

Hey this might be the first time diginut and I ever agreed on something....I'll drink to that!

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut No, actually, Canadians focus on the differences between groups, and therein lies the problem with our joke of a "multicultural" culture.

exactly... if we focussed on being canadians instead of hyphonated canadians maybe we'd all be better off.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DigiNut
No, actually, Canadians focus on the differences between groups, and therein lies the problem with our joke of a "multicultural" culture. [/QUOTE

your statement is not definite and is, at the end of the day, up to everyone's own interpretation through their own opinions and and experiences. it's the way this difference is handled that makes the difference!

BAHAHAHA

quote:

Originally posted by disko-kandi your statement is not definite and is, at the end of the day, up to everyone's own interpretation through their own opinions and and experiences. it's the way this difference is handled that makes the difference!

It's not definite? It's written directly in our Charter of Rights!

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut It's not definite? It's written directly in our Charter of Rights!

The Charter of Rights is to protect the people from the government, not from the opinions of each other...

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut It's not definite? It's written directly in our Charter of Rights!

please cite the article no.


yes, theoretically, you have to first focus on the differences of what makes each unique in order to provide equal rights and freedoms for everyone, - without discrimination.

by way of your interpration of the charter you are distorting the true meaning behind it and its application thereof.


Equality Rights

Equality before and under law and equal protection and benefit of law

15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

Affirmative action programs

(2) Subsection (1) does not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration of conditions of disadvantaged individuals or groups including those that are disadvantaged because of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.


AGAIN, it's the 'WAY' not the 'WHAT'!

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut No, actually, Canadians focus on the differences between groups, and therein lies the problem with our joke of a "multicultural" culture.

please let me in on this joke. i'm curious to hear this.

quote:

Originally posted by disko-kandi AGAIN, it's the 'WAY' not the 'WHAT'!

That's meaningless rhetoric. You posted the section yourself - it explicitly says that different people are entitled to different levels of freedom depending on their race/colour/ethnicity/sex/etc.

That's not focusing on what we have in common as a society - it's a divisive clause hell-bent on destroying equal opportunity in the name of guaranteeing equal results (and even if that worked, which it doesn't, it is still anti-individualist).

Since Trudeau came to power, Canadian law has been predicated on "group rights", not individual rights.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut That's meaningless rhetoric. You posted the section yourself - it explicitly says that different people are entitled to different levels of freedom depending on their race/colour/ethnicity/sex/etc. That's not focusing on what we have in common as a society - it's a divisive clause hell-bent on destroying equal opportunity in the name of guaranteeing equal results (and even if that worked, which it doesn't, it is still anti-individualist). Since Trudeau came to power, Canadian law has been predicated on "group rights", not individual rights.

i'm not even going to respond to the blow below the belt b/c that is the whole point of the existence of this thread. and neither am i going to start arguing with you about the interpretation of the charter.

my point is, and it seems i have to repeat myself again, that it is the PEOPLE who make the structure of a society and it is their attitude, respect and acceptance for each other's difference of opinions and beliefs that makes this living organism of a society work.

the charter is merely an instrument which sets out certain parameters that society should use to orient themselves on. (the law is necessary, unfortunately, due to those who choose to overstep certain boundaries just b/c they don't have common sense of what is wrong or right. you don't need a government or a court to tell you this.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Since Trudeau came to power, Canadian law has been predicated on "group rights", not individual rights.

And that is the way it should be. In a society a single individual should not stand alone. However, there are too many groups that think they should have certain rights just because of their unique status.

quote:

Originally posted by disko-kandi my point is, and it seems i have to repeat myself again, that it is the PEOPLE who make the structure of a society and it is their attitude, respect and acceptance for each other's difference of opinions and beliefs that makes this living organism of a society work.

I agree completely. It is the INDIVIDUAL that matters in society, not the collective. We should accept each other's differences as long as those differences fall within the normal parameters of what's acceptable to society at large (for example, if someone's religion includes cannibalism, that is not acceptable to society).

That's pretty far off from the original point though, which is that the "multicultural" ideal is all about creating divisions between people rather than bringing them together.

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced In a society a single individual should not stand alone.

And why "shouldn't" an individual stand alone?

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I agree completely. It is the INDIVIDUAL that matters in society, not the collective. We should accept each other's differences as long as those differences fall within the normal parameters of what's acceptable to society at large (for example, if someone's religion includes cannibalism, that is not acceptable to society). That's pretty far off from the original point though, which is that the "multicultural" ideal is all about creating divisions between people rather than bringing them together. And why "shouldn't" an individual stand alone?

alright. so you've just given yourself the answer.

canada is a mosaic, an amalgation of differing cultures etc.
multi-culturalism is about being able to live life side by side, acknowledging, understanding (or at least trying to) accepting and respecting each other's differences.
(- the mere and simple act of acknowledgment is a sign of respect)

[Multi-culturalism]... values the diverse perspectives people develop and maintain through varieties of experiences and background stemming from racial, ethnic, gender, sexual orientation and/or class differences in our society. It strives to uphold ideals of equality, equity and freedom, and includes respect for individuals and groups as a principle fundamental to the success and growth of our country.

we take pride in being able to practice and cultivate our own cultures together in one country without having to fear for our lives. turn the whole thing around and look at it from this perspective: if that was the case, then i.e. why haven't the english canadians not started persecuting the quebecois and driving out the french canadian minority by armed force, even though there are differing views by a close 49/51 cut?

im sick of group rights, Its out of control. If two or more grannies complain about legitimate noise, the offender has to cease immediately. Thats our new reality.

No one has tolerence for anyone anymore and thats a direct result of the politics of division that has been thrust upon us for the last 30 years.

quote:

Originally posted by [NFC]Wave BAHAHAHA

Oh man that's awesome.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ That cartoon IS AWESOME BUT it also shows the reality of Canada...we have absolutely not problems and no worries, all we really care about is hockey while many other issues play out in other parts of the world...

quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher we have absolutely not problems and no worries

Hmm, I'm not sure how you meant that - I think we have no worries, but we do have problems, and that's precisely what has to be fixed!

Canadians in general are the least politically-aware people in the world. I mean, we're idealistic and believe in causes and such, but most of us have no clue what's actually going on with our own government (and if we do have a clue, we don't care and will go to insanely elaborate lengths to defend the status quo).

We joke about how Americans don't even know who our prime minister is, but I think the PM's name is about the extent of the average Canadian's political awareness.

quote:

Originally posted by disko-kandi alright. so you've just given yourself the answer. canada is a mosaic, an amalgation of differing cultures etc. multi-culturalism is about being able to live life side by side, acknowledging, understanding (or at least trying to) accepting and respecting each other's differences. (- the mere and simple act of acknowledgment is a sign of respect)

Yes, thank you, I'm aware of what's printed in our elementary school textbooks. "Integration not assimilation" and all that hodgepodge. Any reasonable person should automatically be wary of flowery language in government-stamped literature.

The word "mosaic" tends to imply a piece of art, a symmetrical fractal pattern or something like that. Something with a lot of different elements that all come together to form a beautiful design. The word plays on people's emotions, it's supposed to give us a feel-good euphoria about our country and a sense of superiority.

But the Canadian "mosaic" is more like graffiti and paint splatters on a brick wall. Our ACTUAL political model, contrary to the gross generalizations we read about in the textbooks, is divisive and isolationist. Separating groups based on their differences does NOT create unity or symbiosis. "Diversity" has to happen naturally - it can't be enforced without unfair policies. And when it is enforced this way, it's almost invariably based on superficial qualities like skin colour. Well let me ask you, where is the diversity of opinion in Canada? Where is the intellectual diversity? Americans were split almost 50/50 between Bush and Kerry, whereas Canadians polled some ridiculous number like 85% against Bush.

The mosaic is better than the melting pot in concept only. When put into practice, the mosaic is a societal disaster. The melting pot, on the other hand, works great because it reinforces a common culture but allows every individual to bring their own elements to it, INCLUDING those individuals' CULTURAL BACKGROUNDS.

You can't build a working invention out of random components without any practical design for how they're supposed to interact. This is why I always laugh when I hear the words "Canadian Culture" - because we have no culture, only isolated groups that barely speak the same language.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Hmm, I'm not sure how you meant that - I think we have no worries, but we do have problems, and that's precisely what has to be fixed! Canadians in general are the least politically-aware people in the world. I mean, we're idealistic and believe in causes and such, but most of us have no clue what's actually going on with our own government (and if we do have a clue, we don't care and will go to insanely elaborate lengths to defend the status quo). We joke about how Americans don't even know who our prime minister is, but I think the PM's name is about the extent of the average Canadian's political awareness.

I meant things like wars, deaths, people attacking us....I mean REAL SERIOUS problems...not the BS we have in Canada (althouth admit a lot of these issues do deserve more attention)...I just find that many people prefer to have it easy and chill

already then....i don't about you guys, but i think this discussion has come to an end.

thanks for dropping in.

Holy shit Jews. Never fail to amaze me.

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