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-- Wire Tap all Mosque's? Yes or No?
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quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto On contrary, shows that you don't know much. During wars rules change. Things like treason come into effect. But you know more about the US than the people who live here ofcourse.

Sort of how you know more about Germany than those who live there?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Lepanto, you are insane. I've rarely seen/sensed the kind of hostility you have towards Muslims on the TA forums.

I don't think he's insane - he's just extremely selfish. (Not that it's necessarily better to be selfish than insane...)

quote:

Originally posted by Streakfury If it wasn't such a widely known fact that Mosques are used to recruit terrorists and show propaganda to Muslims on a mass scale ... But until it's shown that churches and synagogues are also being used for the same illegitimate purposes, they should be left alone.

You seem to have a confused grip of terms like "know", "fact" and "show". Just because something is widely suspected, doesn't necessarily make it the truth. There's no more proof that "mosques are used to recruit terrorists" is a fact than "british football stadiums are used as recruiting grounds for nazis" is one.

I think there better be justification and a warrant; no different than in a court case.

I don't agree with an unchecked government just randomly laying down wiretaps all over the place; that's government run amok IMHO.

I do agree, with strong justification, with a 'particular' mosque that may be suspect however.
Terrorists being recruited overseas is one thing, to have that type of scorage in your own backyard is something totally different.
When a country's sovereignty becomes threatened, then I would say justification is warranted.

Lets look at it this way.
If I was the owner of a 20 story apartment complex and I knew that say, the first couple of floors were filled with crackheads and prostitutes that wandered into the local neighborhood at night, I think I'd take action too.

(and no I'm not comparing members of Islam to crackheads and prostitutes so forget about that connection... )

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r I do agree, with strong justification, with a 'particular' mosque that may be suspect however.

I don't think anyone think this is more wrong than witetapping anything else. Of course if there is strong proof that terror recruiting is going on in one particualar mosque you can wiretap that one. However that is legal today so it's not really what we are discussing (if I'm not misstaken?)

No im preety sure the discussion is about wiretapping all the mosques in the USA. And i think its a damn great idea! Becouse as we see in the news there is a wery thin line between terrorism and islam these days, so we all know islam = terrorism. And I say wee need to find at once who those bad bad terrorists are and shoot them in the face with a bazooka!

Oh and while we are at it why not tap all the churches also, becouse there is a wery thin line between christianism (spelling?) and child porn these days, and we all know that being a priest = fucking a 7 year old boy up his ass.

So im all for tapping, just why stop at mosques, lets tap everything and remove the DNA of those bastard from the gene pool

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew I don't think anyone think this is more wrong than witetapping anything else. Of course if there is strong proof that terror recruiting is going on in one particualar mosque you can wiretap that one. However that is legal today so it's not really what we are discussing (if I'm not misstaken?)

Don't worry, I understand the subject topic.
I was simply agreeing with the current legal tapping of a particular, singular mosque and not this blanket, paranoid vision of tapping all...

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto Vlad the show you were listening to wouldn't happen to be Howard Stern would it? Because I heard that as well and...IT'S HOWARD STERN.. Also, by wire tapping do you mean it's done legally or through the Homeland Security?

No I dont listen to that dumbass.

What you guys need to do is read "Prophet of Doom", in there the entire Quran is taken apart and deciphered... no in articles or paragraphs, but they take entire chapters and literally translate what they mean. After that, youre thoughts and ideas of Islam being a religion of peace will slowly melt away.


This is something that my friends father said...

"Not all Muslim's are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim."

What do you think?


__________________________________________________

My thoughts on the wire tapping, are for it. Why shouldnt we tap places where terrorists can be taken refuge? Why shouldnt we tap places that might be plotting against us in our own backyard? These people are in OUR house and are trying to destroy it, how could you allow that to happen? Of course the liberals are gonna come out of their shell and say you cant do that, thats not right, blah blah blah, but it IS right. This country has become so feminized its embarrassing, we have no balls left.

And as well, I would tap churches and sinagogues just to make it evened out.

quote:

Originally posted by Vlad What you guys need to do is read "Prophet of Doom", in there the entire Quran is taken apart and deciphered... no in articles or paragraphs, but they take entire chapters and literally translate what they mean. After that, youre thoughts and ideas of Islam being a religion of peace will slowly melt away. This is something that my friends father said... "Not all Muslim's are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim." What do you think?

I think if you were actually informed about Islam and didn't consume hateful propoganda like you mentioned earlier, your thoughts of Islam as a [insert negative term here] religion would "slowly melt away."

quote:

Originally posted by Vlad __________________________________________________ My thoughts on the wire tapping, are for it. Why shouldnt we tap places where terrorists can be taken refuge? Why shouldnt we tap places that might be plotting against us in our own backyard? These people are in OUR house and are trying to destroy it, how could you allow that to happen? Of course the liberals are gonna come out of their shell and say you cant do that, thats not right, blah blah blah, but it IS right. This country has become so feminized its embarrassing, we have no balls left. And as well, I would tap churches and sinagogues just to make it evened out.

So now are you suggesting that we discriminate against religion?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I think if you were actually informed about Islam and didn't consume hateful propoganda like you mentioned earlier, your thoughts of Islam as a [insert negative term here] religion would "slowly melt away."

How is it hateful when its taken straight out of the book. Its not like hes criticizing one or to lines or words (which you could do with any religion), hes taking full chapters and explaining them word for word.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z So now are you suggesting that we discriminate against religion?

Where in what I said does its say that you discriminate religion?

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto On contrary, shows that you don't know much. During wars rules change. Things like treason come into effect. But you know more about the US than the people who live here ofcourse.

You know, I actually think St_Andrew does know more about America than you!

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic There's no more proof that "mosques are used to recruit terrorists" is a fact than "british football stadiums are used as recruiting grounds for nazis" is one.

Actually, there is. I don't know anything about football stadiums being used to recruit Nazis (although it wouldn't surprise me) but there have been numerous undercover reporters that have made documentaries about the subject of terrorism recruitment within British mosques. The video evidence in these documentaries speaks for itself. And no, it's not just some lame guy who's posted a home-made video on the internet. These documentaries have been shown on national television here in the UK. Although the main subject of the documentary was terrorism itself, it clearly depicts the recruitment of young Muslims by their leaders to be trained as terrorists. It was actually quite worrying to see this happen in my own country.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z You just said, twice, that's there's a thin line between Islam and terrorism. Well I'm Muslim, and am far more familiar with "real" Islam than you. I wonder, would you have been a Nazi 50 yrs ago? EDIT: Not to mention that you just suggested wiretapping mosques would be a good idea.

So, as a Muslim, how would you go about stopping the recruitment of potential terrorists in Mosques? Clearly you're against the idea of wiretapping or using other methods of "keeping tabs" on what happens in Mosques, so how would you personally like the situation to be dealt with? Do you, in fact, think that there's a problem at all?

It's funny, I always hear on the news about how terrorism suspects have been arrested or questioned. Whenever it's revealed that the suspect happens to belong to a minority group, that particular minority group (more often than not) get very upset, and usually protest, and often make claims that the local law enforcement agencies are knowingly persecuting them in the local area. I guess my question is, how are we supposed to curb the recruitment of terrorists, if, whenever a suspected terrorist is arrested, the local communities scream blue murder? Are the police supposed to just let this recruitment process continue, just incase a minority group decide to make accusations of racism etc? How would you personally like to see things handled?

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley You know, I actually think St_Andrew does know more about America than you!

But you don't know more about the US than I do!
"Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslis" I think you got that from a NEO-Con wake up u stupid bastard!

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid But you don't know more about the US than I do! "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslis" I think you got that from a NEO-Con wake up u stupid bastard!

I need to wake up? Right. Tell me, when was the last time you saw a non-muslim terrorist?

Lets stop pussy footing around the truth already.

quote:

Originally posted by Vlad I need to wake up? Right. Tell me, when was the last time you saw a non-muslim terrorist? Lets stop pussy footing around the truth already.

would you consider gangsters as terrorists since they terrorize the neighborhoods they live in? Oh and what about the utah bomber or the oklahoma bombing? Were they muslims and was that not a terrorist action?

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid would you consider gangsters as terrorists since they terrorize the neighborhoods they live in? Oh and what about the utah bomber or the oklahoma bombing? Were they muslims and was that not a terrorist action?

Utah and Oklahoma was a different purpose, and it was just 1 person. As for gangsters, there are so many illegal things that police departments do to push down on them - and we should take those measures against all other threats to our home.

God states in the 6th commandment "Thou shall not Kill" and in the Quran, "Slay the Idol worshippers wherever you find them" (Because they refuse to worship Allah).

metal, are you an idol worshipper? If so than to them, you should be killed - and here you are defending them.

quote:

Originally posted by Vlad This is something that my friends father said... "Not all Muslim's are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim." What do you think?

Bollox is what I think to that!

Ever heard of the IRA? The Loyalist terrorist groups in Northern Ireland as well? ETA from Spain? The fact that half the terrorist groups in Palestine are not Muslim? The dozens of militias in America? The anti-abortionists also of America? Animal rights activists?

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Bollox is what I think to that! Ever heard of the IRA? The Loyalist terrorist groups in Northern Ireland as well? ETA from Spain?

I was talking about in America specifically.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley The fact that half the terrorist groups in Palestine are not Muslim?

Maybe they werent born Muslim, but most, if not all, of them have converted, why? Because non-worshippers would be killed.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley The dozens of militias in America? The anti-abortionists also of America? Animal rights activists?

Every country has its political activists that do things to get their points across.

"Christianity and Judaism too have their own share of bad things. But they pale in comparison to the deeds of Islam. Islam in the name of religion have killed more people that all of the other religions put together. Even as late as 1915, Turkey was 30% christian. So what happened to them? They were taken and dumped in huge pits and buried alive. Many others were loaded inside barges and sank in the Mediterrean sea. A total of 1.8 million christians were killed. Reason - They were non-Muslim. Again consider this, Pakistan had 23% Hindus, Christians and Sikhs as late as 1977. 23 years later, the non-Muslims number 3%. What has happened to the rest 20%? Killed, Molested, Forcibly Converted. A few have been lucky to escape to India. In my own state Kashmir(India), the plight of Kashmiri Pandits (Hindus) is well known. They have been gunned down for not converting to Islam. This is the true essence of Islam. This is the reason also why there is a mad rush among Kashmiri's for Christianity i.e. From the Sword to Peace. As in 2005, the number of hidden muslim believers in Christ in Kashmir was estimated to be about 30,000 apart from the 30,000 traditional christians. i.e. A 50,000 increment in the last 15 years."

quote:

Originally posted by Vlad I was talking about in America specifically.

No you weren't stop bull shitting

quote:

Maybe they werent born Muslim, but most, if not all, of them have converted, why? Because non-worshippers would be killed.

Didn't you listen?! I said STOP bull shitting!

And if you want to come out with crap like that a link is generally considered appropriate...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley No you weren't stop bull shitting Didn't you listen?! I said STOP bull shitting! And if you want to come out with crap like that a link is generally considered appropriate...

Why would I be talking about other nations?

Theres no link to it, its part of a review from a book. If youd like to see the full review Ill post it.
Edit: Let me rephrase, there is a link but its bunched in with alot of other reviews.

quote:

Originally posted by Vlad Why would I be talking about other nations?

Well, obviously it's news to you but terrorism actually happens outside of America as well...

quote:

Theres no link to it, its part of a review from a book. If youd like to see the full review Ill post it. Edit: Let me rephrase, there is a link but its bunched in with alot of other reviews.

So this magical link proves that all Palestinian terrorists are Muslims does it?

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Well, obviously it's news to you but terrorism actually happens outside of America as well... So this magical link proves that all Palestinian terrorists are Muslims does it?

I know it happens else where, as per the quote stating how the terrorists slaughter non-muslims.

Read it and believe what you want.

The book is called, "Prophet of Doom : Islam's Terrorist Dogma in Muhammad's Own Words"

This is the book that changed my life. I am extremely grateful to the author for writing this book and saving my soul from eternal damnation. God is not hatred, He is love. He is not a Jihadi, He is a Savior. He does not tell to kill, but to forgive. His heaven is not a place of all sorts of perversions but a place of peace, truth and love. I give 10 out of 10 for this book and salute the author and the publisher for bringing out this book. It will save the souls and lives of many more muslims from eternal damnation.

Before I go any further, a word or two about perception. Everyone thinks that what he/she believes is true; What others believe is immaterial or incorrect. But the fact remains that out of the 4 major religions - Judaism/Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Athetism/Communism, only one is true. Believing in one, automatically makes the others false. People might not realize this; but it is precisely this mutual exclusion principle that holds. There is another group which states that all worship the same God, even though the paths of worship are different. They compare God to a mountain top and religion to different paths to get there. Is this is so, then why do our holy books contradict one another. Which is true - Killing/Jihad will get us to Heaven(Islam) or Forgiving(Christianity), Reincarnation(Hinduism) or Resurrection(Christianity), Man is God(Hinduism) or God became Man(Christianity), There is a God(Religion) or there is no God(Athetism), Idol worship is the greatest sin on Earth(Christianity) or God wants all Idol Worshippers killed(Islam) or Idol worship is the path to God(Hinduism). This diffence is one thing that Craig Winn brings out in his book.

Reading some of the reviews over here amazes me. Fellow Muslims (and some Ladies married to Muslims) are trying to defend Islam saying that it is fastest growing religion. Does fastest growing mean that it is not bad? Islam is fastest growing because it is concentrated in the underdeveloped tropical regions where the population is multiplying faster than rabbits. Conversion wise, the number of people who become Muslims (mostly ladies married to muslims are forced to convert) are slightly greater than the people who leave the religion. If conversion is an issue, then know this - Every year about 2,000 Kashmiri Muslims become Christian. In Iran, the figure is 15,000 per year. In Indonesia, it is 30,000 per year.
The above reasoning on the part of muslims reminds me of the Quran where the fact that birds can fly, the existence of the sky and heaven etc are used to prove that Allah exists!! This is the height of Foolishness. Craig Winn has nicely highlighted this in his book.

Fellow Muslims like to fool themselves by saying that the God of the Muslims is same as the God of the Jews and the Christians. Is this true? Consider the following (extracted from Craig Winns Book):

1. The essence of the Bible is the 10 commandments. Where are 10 commandments in the Quran? The Apostle of Allah broke every one of the 10 commandments.

2. Is it possible that God who states in the 6th commandment "Thou shall not Kill" will say in the Quran, "Slay the Idol worshippers wherever you find them"? (Because they refuse to worship Allah). No this comes from Satan.

3. Is it possible that the God who promised Isreal through Abraham "I will bless thee who blesses you and curse thee who curses you" will say through Muhammad "Kill any Jew who falls in your Power" and "The Bestial transformation occured when Allah converted the Jews into Apes"?

4. The Bible was written by 46 people over 1200 centuries, yet none of the verses are abrogated(cancelled out), while the Quran which is the work of a Man has lot of verses abrogated out even though it was revealed over a period of only 20 years. Reminds me of the verse from the Bible "God is not a man, that he may be threatened; neither is he as the son of man, that he should be WAVERING"(Judith 8:16). The Quran is not the work of God, but of Man.

5. The Quran has satanic verses in it. How did they land there if the Quran is the work of God and Muhammad is the greatest prophet?

6. The Quran claims that Jihad is the only sure way to reach Allah's paradise. Killing is a sure shot way in Judaism/Christianity to reach Satan's paradise. Does this mean that Allah and Satan are the same? Because YAHWEH claims in the Bible "For I desire mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings" (Hosea 6:6)

7. Allah wants to be feared, Yahweh wants to be loved. Allah wants all Muslims who leave their religion like me killed. But Yahweh is all about free will.

8. Allah has created woman as pleasure things for Man, Yahweh has created woman as a equal partner for Man.

Being an ex-muslim and knowing the Quran and the Bible in and out, I can state that what Craig Winn has written is true. He does not mince words. He calls a spade a spade. The world needs more of such people. Like Craig Winn, People like Socrates and Jesus too had to suffer because of such Truthful behaviour.

Reading the Hadiths/Sunnah gives the clearcut picture of Muhammad. He is what Craig Winns calls him in his book... Problem is most fellow muslims have never even seen the Hadiths, forget about reading them. And the Quran is a mystery of its own. Most of the verses in the Quran are open ended, leaving a lot to guesswork, unlike the Bible. Out of 6000 odd verses, only 700 can be understood in their entirety. Out of the rest, another 1200 are completely beyond the understanding of man. Only Allah can understand them.(Quran 3:7).

Whats more, Muhammad's great commandment is "If a Muslim leaves his religion, then kill him". Isa Al-Masih's(Jesus) great commandment was "Love one another and pray for those who persecute you". Can there be any comparison between Jesus and Muhammad. One is life, the other death.
The word Muslim means "True Believer" or "Believer of the True Religion". As True Believers, I will advise all Muslims to read this book by Craig Winn with an unbaised mind. (Most of the Muslims who have written the one star reviews have not read Craig Winn's book). I am sure you will leave Islam like I did 1 year back. This books correctly depicts Muhammad as a thief, a raider, a pervert and whatever the Hadiths describes him as. But most importantly you will realize that Muhammad is what I have come to believe - Allah himself.

Christianity and Judaism too have their own share of bad things. But they pale in comparison to the deeds of Islam. Islam in the name of religion have killed more people that all of the other religions put together. Even as late as 1915, Turkey was 30% christian. So what happened to them? They were taken and dumped in huge pits and buried alive. Many others were loaded inside barges and sank in the Mediterrean sea. A total of 1.8 million christians were killed. Reason - They were non-Muslim. Again consider this, Pakistan had 23% Hindus, Christians and Sikhs as late as 1977. 23 years later, the non-Muslims number 3%. What has happened to the rest 20%? Killed, Molested, Forcibly Converted. A few have been lucky to escape to India. In my own state Kashmir(India), the plight of Kashmiri Pandits (Hindus) is well known. They have been gunned down for not converting to Islam. This is the true essence of Islam which Craig Winn brings out in his book. This is the reason also why there is a mad rush among Kashmiri's for Christianity i.e. From the Sword to Peace. As in 2005, the number of hidden muslim believers in Christ in Kashmir was estimated to be about 30,000 apart from the 30,000 traditional christians. i.e. A 50,000 increment in the last 15 years.

The greatness of a religion is seen in the behaviour of its people. As you sow, you shall reap. It is just a cause and effect relationship. In every Islamic country there is hell. Look at countries like Bangladesh, Pakistan and even Kashmir. The Kafirs(Infidels - Non Muslims) have been wiped clean by the Muslims. The life of non-muslims in these countries is worse than the life of Dogs and swines. Islam is not about Heaven, it is about Hell; not about life, it is about death. I once again salute Craig Winn for bringing out this book. Hats off to him. I recommend everyone - muslim or non-muslim who is in seach of the true to purchase this book. It is a must have.

An Ex-Muslim
Haroon Rasheed,
Kashmir, India.

he might be an ex-muslim but hes still a neo-con working for the republicans.

You're off yer ed mate!

Edit: to Vlad

quote:

Originally posted by Vlad "Christianity and Judaism too have their own share of bad things. But they pale in comparison to the deeds of Islam. Islam in the name of religion have killed more people that all of the other religions put together. Even as late as 1915, Turkey was 30% christian. So what happened to them? They were taken and dumped in huge pits and buried alive. Many others were loaded inside barges and sank in the Mediterrean sea. A total of 1.8 million christians were killed. Reason - They were non-Muslim. Again consider this, Pakistan had 23% Hindus, Christians and Sikhs as late as 1977. 23 years later, the non-Muslims number 3%. What has happened to the rest 20%? Killed, Molested, Forcibly Converted. A few have been lucky to escape to India. In my own state Kashmir(India), the plight of Kashmiri Pandits (Hindus) is well known. They have been gunned down for not converting to Islam. This is the true essence of Islam. This is the reason also why there is a mad rush among Kashmiri's for Christianity i.e. From the Sword to Peace. As in 2005, the number of hidden muslim believers in Christ in Kashmir was estimated to be about 30,000 apart from the 30,000 traditional christians. i.e. A 50,000 increment in the last 15 years."

Yeah right, that is bullshit. Ever heard about the crusades? or the kings in europe that used christianity as a reason to kill endless of ppl? Or all the Indians that were killed and forcefully converted in north america? Or the witchhunts?

Islam I think was the first major religion to actually let ppl with different religons live in the same country.

There is no way on earth Islam has killed more than all other religions.

And how can a statment like:

quote:

"Not all Muslim's are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim."

only be valid for americans, you dont make sense at all :S

quote:

Originally posted by Streakfury So, as a Muslim, how would you go about stopping the recruitment of potential terrorists in Mosques?

How do you solve any problem? Well, first you need to understand what the problem is and the root cause of it. Pre-9-11 US foreign policy in the Middle East, the US support for corrupt regiemes that supress any positive change, shift towards democracy, and complete irresponsiveness to the wishes and interest of the people; The US virtual control of the resources of the region (support the status quo and help the ruling class maintain their power, and wallah, you got yourself partners). US support for Israel (billions of dollars of aid and weponds tank etc) as opposed to having a nuetral stance focuding on a peace process, continous vetos of US resolutions etc. etc. Post-9-11 US foreighn policy hasn't really been any improvement eighter (i.e. Iraq). Just to mention a few things you might not know about :

1947-48: U.S. backs Palestine partition plan. Israel established. U.S. declines to press Israel to allow expelled Palestinians to return.

1949: CIA backs military coup deposing elected government of Syria.1

1953: CIA helps overthrow the democratically‑elected Mossadeq government in Iran (which had nationalized the British oil company) leading to a quarter‑century of repressive and dictatorial rule by the Shah, Mohammed Reza Pahlevi.

1956: U.S. cuts off promised funding for Aswan Dam in Egypt after Egypt receives Eastern bloc arms.

1956: Israel, Britain, and France invade Egypt. U.S. does not support invasion, but the involvement of its NATO allies severely diminishes Washington's reputation in the region.

1958: U.S. troops land in Lebanon to preserve "stability".

early 1960s: U.S. unsuccessfully attempts assassination of Iraqi leader, Abdul Karim Qassim.2

1963: U.S. supports coup by Iraqi Ba'ath party (soon to be headed by Saddam Hussein) and reportedly gives them names of communists to murder, which they do with vigor.3

1967‑: U.S. blocks any effort in the Security Council to enforce SC Resolution 242, calling for Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in the 1967 war.

1970: Civil war between Jordan and PLO. Israel and U.S. discuss intervening on side of Jordan if Syria backs PLO.

1972: U.S. blocks Egyptian leader Anwar Sadat's efforts to reach a peace agreement with Israel.

1973: Airlifted U.S. military aid enables Israel to turn the tide in war with Syria and Egypt.

1973‑75: U.S. supports Kurdish rebels in Iraq. When Iran reaches an agreement with Iraq in 1975 and seals the border, Iraq slaughters Kurds and U.S. denies them refuge. Kissinger secretly explains that "covert action should not be confused with missionary work."4

1975: U.S. vetoes Security Council resolution condemning Israeli attacks on Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon.5

1978‑79: Iranians begin demonstrations against the Shah. U.S. tells Shah it supports him "without reservation" and urges him to act forcefully. Until the last minute, U.S. tries to organize military coup to save the Shah, but to no avail.6

1979‑88: U.S. begins covert aid to Mujahideen in Afghanistan six months before Soviet invasion in Dec. 1979.7 Over the next decade U.S. provides training and more than $3 billion in arms and aid.

1980‑88: Iran‑Iraq war. When Iraq invades Iran, the U.S. opposes any Security Council action to condemn the invasion. U.S. soon removes Iraq from its list of nations supporting terrorism and allows U.S. arms to be transferred to Iraq. At the same time, U.S. lets Israel provide arms to Iran and in 1985 U.S. provides arms directly (though secretly) to Iran. U.S. provides intelligence information to Iraq. Iraq uses chemical weapons in 1984; U.S. restores diplomatic relations with Iraq. 1987 U.S. sends its navy into the Persian Gulf, taking Iraq's side; an overly‑aggressive U.S. ship shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing 290.

1981, 1986: U.S. holds military maneuvers off the coast of Libya in waters claimed by Libya with the clear purpose of provoking Qaddafi. In 1981, a Libyan plane fires a missile and U.S. shoots down two Libyan planes. In 1986, Libya fires missiles that land far from any target and U.S. attacks Libyan patrol boats, killing 72, and shore installations. When a bomb goes off in a Berlin nightclub, killing three, the U.S. charges that Qaddafi was behind it (possibly true) and conducts major bombing raids in Libya, killing dozens of civilians, including Qaddafi's adopted daughter.8

1982: U.S. gives "green light" to Israeli invasion of Lebanon,9 killing some 17 thousand civilians.10 U.S. chooses not to invoke its laws prohibiting Israeli use of U.S. weapons except in self‑defense. U.S. vetoes several Security Council resolutions condemning the invasion.

1983: U.S. troops sent to Lebanon as part of a multinational peacekeeping force; intervene on one side of a civil war, including bombardment by USS New Jersey. Withdraw after suicide bombing of marine barracks.

1984: U.S.‑backed rebels in Afghanistan fire on civilian airliner.11

1987-92: U.S. arms used by Israel to repress first Palestinian Intifada. U.S. vetoes five Security Council resolution condemning Israeli repression.

1988: Saddam Hussein kills many thousands of his own Kurdish population and uses chemical weapons against them. The U.S. increases its economic ties to Iraq.

1988: U.S. vetoes 3 Security Council resolutions condemning continuing Israeli occupation of and repression in Lebanon.

1990‑91: U.S. rejects any diplomatic settlement of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait (for example, rebuffing any attempt to link the two regional occupations, of Kuwait and of Palestine). U.S. leads international coalition in war against Iraq. Civilian infrastructure targeted.12 To promote "stability" U.S. refuses to aid post‑war uprisings by Shi'ites in the south and Kurds in the north, denying the rebels access to captured Iraqi weapons and refusing to prohibit Iraqi helicopter flights.13

1991‑: Devastating economic sanctions are imposed on Iraq. U.S. and Britain block all attempts to lift them. Hundreds of thousands die. Though Security Council had stated that sanctions were to be lifted once Saddam Hussein's programs to develop weapons of mass destruction were ended, Washington makes it known that the sanctions would remain as long as Saddam remains in power. Sanctions in fact strengthen Saddam's position. Asked about the horrendous human consequences of the sanctions, Madeleine Albright (U.S. ambassador to the UN and later Secretary of State) declares that "the price is worth it."14

1991-: U.S. forces permanently based in Saudi Arabia.

1993‑: U.S. launches missile attack on Iraq, claiming self‑defense against an alleged assassination attempt on former president Bush two months earlier.15

1998: U.S. and U.K. bomb Iraq over the issue of weapons inspections, even though Security Council is just then meeting to discuss the matter.

1998: U.S. destroys factory producing half of Sudan's pharmaceutical supply, claiming retaliation for attacks on U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya and that factory was involved in chemical warfare. Evidence for the chemical warfare charge widely disputed.16

2000-: Israel uses U.S. arms in attempt to crush Palestinian uprising, killing hundreds of civilians.

Point being, the anger and resentment that drives some people to commit acts of terror are a DIRECT CONSEQUENSE of US policy and its allies.

quote:

Originally posted by Streakfury Clearly you're against the idea of wiretapping or using other methods of "keeping tabs" on what happens in Mosques, so how would you personally like the situation to be dealt with? Do you, in fact, think that there's a problem at all?

Well, obviously, unless Muslims are second class citizens and don't have the same rights and liberties as everyone else, then, yes, a blanket surveillence of all mosques is out of the question.

quote:

Originally posted by Streakfury It's funny, I always hear on the news about how terrorism suspects have been arrested or questioned. Whenever it's revealed that the suspect happens to belong to a minority group, that particular minority group (more often than not) get very upset, and usually protest, and often make claims that the local law enforcement agencies are knowingly persecuting them in the local area. I guess my question is, how are we supposed to curb the recruitment of terrorists, if, whenever a suspected terrorist is arrested, the local communities scream blue murder? Are the police supposed to just let this recruitment process continue, just incase a minority group decide to make accusations of racism etc? How would you personally like to see things handled?

You're obviously not aware of the kind of flimsy and insubstantial evidence involved in most cases.

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