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- Political Discussion / Debate
-- There are American churches, and then there are normal churches
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quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings Offuckingcourse there is an alignment! Why is this even a discussion. George Bush is as conservative and religious as a man that we will see in office. Of course, the church will be on his side, Geore represents their values. I'm sorry guys, but America is not exaclty the land of the enlightened, therefore George and his values run deep. In a USA Today poll I saw last year a majority of Americans believe in angels. ANGELS! Furthermore, this country was founded by men with deep religious values, therefore the base of this country is a religious one. So please, stop wasting space on this page calling for all religion to just go away in this country. From the beginning religion has helped to guide this country and will continue to do so.

Missing the point of this thread BIG TIME. A completely irrelevant post.

Where the f*ck did I ever say that this country was not founded on religious principles? Of course it was. We're not talking about where religion is important, and where it's not important. Yeah, the USA is more religious than Europe. We are not talking about that here. If you wanna make a separate thread about that - go ahead.

What we are talking about is different views by the SAME INSTITUTION, namely the church, in two countries. Do you understand the words "same institution"?

And the claim is that this institution itself, even in the socially similar UK, is different from its American counterpart -- not to mention the even stronger differences if you go further into Europe. For example, the Hamburg church in Germany issued a joint condemnation of the movie "Passion of the Christ" when it came out -- something that most Americans would find shocking -- due to the movie's potentially bad effects on people. The church did that!

Do you now understand what this topic is about? or some more logic lessions are necessary?

Europe is a continent...not a country.

Passion of the Christ is blasphemy just like the Last Temptation of Christ or at least that's what I heard religious leaders proclaim.. People should see movies before proclaiming they are something or other.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z +1 I totally agree with you. It's really annoying when people disregard popular trends becuase exceptions exist.

The phrase I use here is:
"the exception that proves the rule"

IMHO Bush is far too outwardly religious considering he is representing a state and not a person when he talks to the US people (and indeed the world).

These are not rare exceptions, they are incredibly common. Especially at the churches that are dominated by black people, who tend to follow christianity much more passionately. I would normally just watch you kids blast your stereotypes but you really have no idea what portion of churches are politically aligned and you act as if they all are. The 700 club does not represent every church, the whole country is not completely blinded by their religion, these are gross exagerations of a probelem but you would rather beleive them because you enjoy the rebelious america sucks attitude, get over yourselves.

Most people realize that the religious stuff that comes on the TV is bullshit, but we are basing our opinion on the christians that are on the TV, guess what, the real christians dont control the media, only the corrupt ones that mobilize stupid people can accumulate enough support to get a voice that strong. There is no such thing as this huge movement of churches supporting the bush agenda, those kind of churches are the exception, the common ones are divided and stay divided because they would rather not isolate people who do not agree on the issues, it would shrink their attendence.

Here is the division of religions in america:
Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 EST)

76% christian, 78 if you the mormons as christians even though they said that the jesus they beleive in is a different jesus than the bible's jesus(but they seem to support bush ideals). With that overwhelming majority being christian the people who aren't just have to put up with appeals to christianity made by leaders such as the president. The gov't has to appeal to the majority and the majority are religous. Sure us non-christians think that we are right and they are wrong but they outnumber us and we just have to deal with it until we outnumber them, but the non-religous also tend to be less willing to have children so it might happen that christians become an even stronger majority in the future. We have no hope for secularizing the government when christians outnumber all the votings, I don't like it either but it is something we have to live with because living in a democracy means losing out to the majority from time to time.

I am not denying that the churches in Europe are different, but the churches here are not all marching the streets thumping bibles and lynching gay people and stuff like that either. They are diverse and inconsistent.

Evangelical Christians in America(not just "churches") will vote Republican because Republicans best match their views on social and moral topics. Most Evangelical Christians will vote just based on four things: abortion, homosexual marriage, death penelty, and possible Supreme Court vacancies. There is a sense of guilt if they dont vote Republican because it would be turning their back on core beliefs of the church. However, I think the majority of churches will not preach straight politics and not tell you who to vote for.

Democrats will also vote Democrat based on their opinions with those issues.

Because Britain and other countries in Europe do not understand this partisan divide on these topics they look at things that Americans should look at; foreign policy and domestic policy. Looking at those two things they disagree with what the administration is doing.

In the end it is because of ignorance that people vote only based on social issues. Granted there are some well informed voters out there, but they are the minority.

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