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quote:

Originally posted by Aiwendil Yeah, there is industrial rock right there. You're right, Industrial Rock is a subgenre of Rock. And there's industrial techno, EBM, Noise, and other industrial EDM. I don't think you read what I typed correctly. Industrial is a sound that describes a number of subgenres within EDM and Rock music.

i have no idea what it is you're pointing to or if you even read and not skimmed through the history of industrial. But there's no industrial rock, maybe you're refering to industrial metal? lol. Also, industrial started as a fusion of old school synths and punk. Do you remmember what older synths were? without MIDI? Not really electronica just yet dude.

This is why I don't like classification, it really helps one find stuff when the categories are well established but when the borders of these styles are harder to find people argue over definitions and the terms used for the categories get quite useless. I can kinda notice how EBM might be a goa precursor though, the synths and stuff between the kickdrums sound somewhat goaish. I dont really care what the category is called I just want to know what section of the bloody music shop that I need to look in to find this certain sound. The heavy beats and hypnotic yet kinda evil sounding synth lines are quite energetic.

I have also heard the term "futurepop" before, mainly referring to apoptygma berzerk, who I've been enjoying since audiogalaxy still worked. I actually saw a futurepop DJ at an EDM party one time, it was great fun, I wonder why they are so uncommon, I imagine they are more easily found at different types of clubs than the ones I usually go to. I've never really been into metal and I guess the metal type places are where one has to go to find this sort of sound. I am just guessing though. It is kinda surprising that this sort of sound seems to be more associated with metal than it is with EDM, it looks alot like a "gateway genre" between the 2.

It used to be alot easier to track down interesting sounds when audiogalaxy worked, you click on one artist, and at the top of the page are links to others in the same style that people also have in their file collections. I sure wish that audiogalaxy type interface still existed somewhere just so I could find music better, it would be worth it even if the downloads were replaced by samples or something, just so one could figure out what songs people are collecting and what else one might like given that they enjoy one certain tune. Are there any sites out there that do something similar?

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto i have no idea what it is you're pointing to or if you even read and not skimmed through the history of industrial. But there's no industrial rock, maybe you're refering to industrial metal? lol. Also, industrial started as a fusion of old school synths and punk. Do you remmember what older synths were? without MIDI? Not really electronica just yet dude.

Industrial rock
Industrial music

I don't have any crayons or colored blocks with me...

quote:

Originally posted by Aiwendil Industrial rock Industrial music I don't have any crayons or colored blocks with me...

apparently you don't have any skills on clicking links for MUSIC websites or reading either.
next thing you're going to tell me "rock" is a style of music as well right?

This is what happens when kids invent sub-genres and sub-sub-genres.

Stop fucking classifing things into this and that, with a bit of this, and a bit of that, to form a bit of this. The only classification that needs to be made in electronic music is that trance and progressive suck.

The only one here who knows what he is talking about is Aiwendil. I suggest you all stop talking and read what he is typing, even if he is a **** face.

And Lepanto, you have no clue what you're talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 It used to be alot easier to track down interesting sounds when audiogalaxy worked, you click on one artist, and at the top of the page are links to others in the same style that people also have in their file collections. I sure wish that audiogalaxy type interface still existed somewhere just so I could find music better, it would be worth it even if the downloads were replaced by samples or something, just so one could figure out what songs people are collecting and what else one might like given that they enjoy one certain tune. Are there any sites out there that do something similar?

Read what I had posted in your other thread last week or so and that should help you out on how to find/download/buy music.

What you said in that thread was quite useless, you mentioned some obvious sites and said some stuff that pretty much amounted to "try harder"

I am trying to work smarter rather than work harder. AG allowed music hunting with minimal time and effort and ever since its fall nothing has arrived to replace that functionality, or if something has then nobody bothered to mention it in that thread despite me clearly asking.

There just isnt enough time in my day to scour sites for news and waste time with the trial and error approach of listening and deleting, not to mention the time required to find people on soulseek who have the files I want and waiting through the queues, I am lucky if I can even leave my network connection in long enough to get through the queues before I have to unplug the laptop and go do something else.

Some people cannot sit in front of their computer for 4 hours a day and scour the web for songs, I on the computer at work for about 8 hours a day and when I get home I get friggin sick of it, and I am not allowed to look up music while I am working because most of the sites are blocked(but I am allowed to chat on message boards)

That other thread was my attempt to figure out how other kids can manage to deal with those factors. I know that there are university students here, I know there are other kids who work 40 hours a week, yet alot of them still seem to have enough time and money to travel all over the country and accumulate massive song collections. Therefore there has to be ways to travel that require very little money, and ways to find music that require very little time. But nobody will release the friggin info.

quote:

Originally posted by Linden Flowers This is what happens when kids invent sub-genres and sub-sub-genres. Stop fucking classifing things into this and that, with a bit of this, and a bit of that, to form a bit of this. The only classification that needs to be made in electronic music is that trance and progressive suck. The only one here who knows what he is talking about is Aiwendil. I suggest you all stop talking and read what he is typing, even if he is a **** face. And Lepanto, you have no clue what you're talking about.

pansy. Yes, I have no idea what I'm talking about I guess that's why REAL links i provided were also made by people who have no idea what they're talking about.

but making a statement such as " The only classification that needs to be made in electronic music is that trance and progressive suck." make you a GENIOUS!


edit: Rammstein
Rob Zombie
Nine Inch Nails
ministry
Bile
Pig
KMFDM

also, none of these use real instruments associate with the rock gengre or the metal subgenre, moreover the industrial-metal style.


out of the radio's list only a few bands were actualy pure industrial and/or alternative industrial or something of that sort.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 What you said in that thread was quite useless, you mentioned some obvious sites and said some stuff that pretty much amounted to "try harder" I am trying to work smarter rather than work harder. AG allowed music hunting with minimal time and effort and ever since its fall nothing has arrived to replace that functionality, or if something has then nobody bothered to mention it in that thread despite me clearly asking. There just isnt enough time in my day to scour sites for news and waste time with the trial and error approach of listening and deleting, not to mention the time required to find people on soulseek who have the files I want and waiting through the queues, I am lucky if I can even leave my network connection in long enough to get through the queues before I have to unplug the laptop and go do something else. Some people cannot sit in front of their computer for 4 hours a day and scour the web for songs, I on the computer at work for about 8 hours a day and when I get home I get friggin sick of it, and I am not allowed to look up music while I am working because most of the sites are blocked(but I am allowed to chat on message boards) That other thread was my attempt to figure out how other kids can manage to deal with those factors. I know that there are university students here, I know there are other kids who work 40 hours a week, yet alot of them still seem to have enough time and money to travel all over the country and accumulate massive song collections. Therefore there has to be ways to travel that require very little money, and ways to find music that require very little time. But nobody will release the friggin info.

Well then, I really question your passion for EDM and the importance of music in your life. You seem to want the easy way out and for this whole entire scene and all its knowledge to come knocking on your backdoor simply because "you don't have time" and unfortunately since dance music is not mainstream in this country, chances are it is not going to find you. You must find it to a certain extent. Honestly, if I would have thought like that, I'd still be listening to hip-hop and r&b like I used to because the above is just not all that plausible. If you really want to know more, you'll find a way to go about it, even if your time is limited. Any person who is into something deeply will tell you that. I think you are just a casual music listener and unless you want to free some time to pursue your musical interests further, then that is all you'll be.

If you have other priorities, fine, I do too. I also attend college and have a job as well, but I think it really depends on how much you want it and if you are willing to take the time to explore on your own. You can call my information useless all you want, but then please quit whining because of those on this board who actually put in the time, energy, and effort to learn and gain more knowledge. If you think my post stressed working harder as opposed to smarter, then I think that is your main problem because I have never viewed my passion for music as something that is going to get in the way and cause a great deal of conflict with my other routines. Maybe that is how you feel, I don't know, but music is something fun and very special to me (hell, I'm a music marketing major), so I almost demand to expand my frame of reference in search of new and different music.

Oh well, to each their own though and with that said, you may find you will have to answer some of your own questions and really think about how you yourself need to go about finding music on your own. I gave you the internet idea, which is probably one of the best and richest ways to surround yourself in musical knowledge, but you obviously have shot that explanation down and have no attempts to even consider doing what I wrote before. You have to want it and it does seem like you truthfully want to, but since you think a person needs to spend 4 or more hours a day searching for music (which is an absurd assumtion), I don't know what else to tell you. IMO, you are turning a mountain into a molehill and making this harder than it has to be.

I NOSTRI SOGNI SONO SEMPRE PRESENTI

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/193426

Nice charts guys.

Unlike trance, Industrial is not a strict genre. Pick up any industrial album and you'll find styles that us EDM cripples would classify as drum'n'bass, psytrance, ambient, rock and yes... trance. Its a very broad genre with a massive ammount of talent and experimentation having gone on. Not that hard to imagine considering it probably predates techno as the earliest form of electronic music. The only real requirement for Industrial is that its dark, brooding, cold and machinelike. BPM, beat structure... they all go out the window which is why people have trouble classifying it.

In answer to the thread posters question. The tracks you are reffering to are fairly straight forward club style industrial NOT in any way EBM like. I know someone claimed that Front 242 were EBM, but personally I'd say their style is more industrial than EBM in nature. Also, I've found most driving/ trancy industrial comes out of acts remixing each other. Industrial producers seem to delight in butchering each others tracks and adding pounding beats to it.

Front 242, 808 State, Front Line assembly, Cubanate and their associated remixes would be a good place to start. KMFDM are good too, but their trance style tracks are fewer and far between. Also, Fear Factory though not technically industrial, have some really good remixes of their tracks. Look for their album Remanufacture.


And heres an intersting connection between industrial and trance for those who didnt know...

Front Line Assembly are none other than Delirium. As in Delerium - Silence (Tiesto ISOS mix). I shit you not.

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange i hardly think that one or several cd titles with "EBM" a genre make.

then you know nothing.

Just because you don't pay attention to it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


PS: No, I mean it. You really DO know nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by AlphaStarred Trance should not remotely sound like Industrial, or any other genre that is often coupled with Industrial. That would be a disgrace to the edm scene as a whole.

Wrong.

Trance came from EBM/New Beat more than anything else. It's roots lie completely in the realm of the industrial ethos.

What's disgraceful is you don't know that.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Wrong. Trance came from EBM/New Beat more than anything else. It's roots lie completely in the realm of the industrial ethos.

Wrong? Where did you catch sight of me making an informed statement? I averred an opinion, nothing more. I couldn't give 3 shits as to where its******* roots lie.

quote:

What's disgraceful is you don't know that.

Perhaps you should take notice that none of my posts in this thread, nor any other, is apropos of a certain style's or genre's origin. If I wanted to know what burgeoned from what, and when Trance originated, etc, I would avail myself to do so. But instead, I listen to what I like, and if I care to know it's history, I make it a point edify myself. So, to be concise, your retort to my statement is wholly impertinent and serves no use to me whatever.

you can say whatever you want, it still makes you wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto Rammstein Rob Zombie Nine Inch Nails

Please...just stop. Calling them industrial is like calling 50 cent true hip hop. Lurk the Discogs forums for a while, maybe you can learn something.

...and thank you kindly for the genious statement. I has completly destroyed my internet ego, man.

Oh, and stop relying on Ishkur's music guide, because those names came straight from it.

I have alot of respect for industrial bands. I love Laibach and Covenant (They're actually one of my favourite bands all around) oh and KMFD are great too! That list was tops man!

LoL.. this is great. Suddenly everyones an industrial expert. Have we completely bagged the shit out of trance to the point where we are laying into industrial now?

Fukn Trent Reznor... fukn trainwrecks 'n' shit

I dont know whats gayer... the current state of trance or the fact that industrial bands wear make up... shit, I'm so confused.

I could start ragging on psy, its just as fucking repetative.

I enjoy a healthy dose of repitition personally. One doesnt get into trance music if they don't like repitition, trance is repitition, without it there would be no trance. I guess that doesnt appeal to everybody though, you certainly don't get into trance if you are looking for variety.

This thread really had a promising start, people were being helpful and informative, actual artist recomendations, an attempt to identify the title of the specific sound that I was enjoying, but then the usual suspects came in to have yet another dick measuring contests over who knows the most about music, bleh.

How about we continue to mention more of this music that falls under the industrial umbrella yet sounds like trance music would sound if it had never forked in that fluffy direction, evil sounding trance music is great fun but evidently that used to be called industrial or EBM or something. I know none of you will bother with the being helpful, it seems to be in our nature to argue over pointless topics like where trance came from and where the style fits in our silly genre trees.

But thanks to the people who have contributed useful information, I rarely am able to squeeze this much good information out of you monkeys.

quote:

Originally posted by Linden Flowers I could start ragging on psy, its just as fucking repetative.

Uh... just as repedative as pretty much all other forms of EDM. What the fucks psy got to do with this discussion anyway? I thought it was about industrial or industrial sounding trance to be more specific. Shit lets bring up tek house while were at it

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 How about we continue to mention more of this music that falls under the industrial umbrella yet sounds like trance music would sound if it had never forked in that fluffy direction, evil sounding trance music is great fun but evidently that used to be called industrial or EBM or something.

Fluffy trance doesnt really have any roots in industrial really so not surprising it doesnt share many elements. Early goa was influenced by it a bit but thats a different brand of category bullshit in itself. Uplifting/fluffy is more from the european club scene as far as I know and derived much more from house and rave music. Completely different audience if you think about it catering for opposite end of the emotional spectrum compared to industrial.

If you want to see what happens when these two genres crossbreed, check out Future Pop. Thats some scary shit. Angsty goth poetry recited over eurotrash supersaw melodies. If it wasnt so rediculous it would have died a dead already. Check out VnV Nation for starters. Think DJ Sammy meets the Cure... oh the hilarity

Probably not what your after considering you want good industrial trance, but its important to see the bad side of things too...

Just to recap on what Axolotyl said, Futurepop... think steve balmer reciting poetry on stage while dancing around like a tool, it's scary stuff, although VNV Nation takes it to the extreme.

As for the industrial discussion, one element that seems to be overlooked in this discussion is that a lot of the industrial artists being discussed tend to produce one or two tracks on their albums which can actually be played at clubs / radio. People seem to be taking the tracks they hear on the radio / clubs as an example of all industrial. This is not the case.

Most 'industrial' is not fashionable to play at a club, as it often contains erratic BPM changes, and harsh progression which makes it rather impossible to dance to. Thus you tend to hear the faster Industrial tracks played at clubs, but if you were to follow up on the artists, you would find a lot of the industrial music extremely different.

To give some examples of common club industrial music, off the top of my head...

Noise Unit - Hollow Ground
Laibach - Tanz Mit
Front 242 - Religion (Bass under prodigy Siege Mix)
Front Line Assembly - Plasticity
Front Line Assembly - Columbian Necktie
Cubanate - Oxyacetylene
Dulce Liquido - Disolucion
Project Pitchfork - Existence
Suicide Commando - Hellrazor
God Module - Ressurection

If you give these songs a listen, they all share vary trance like elements albiet darker and generally slower. However, the rest of the music by these artists will sound quite different to these tracks.

On another note, people seem to have trouble distincting between Industrial and EBM. Allow me to offer some examples to clarify.

EBM examples:
Apoptygma Bezerk
Assemblage 23
Bebon Beton
Covenant
Devision
Echo Image
Colony 5
Icon of Coil
Lost Signal
Neurotic Fish

Industrial examples:
Combichrist
C-Tec
Cubanate
Dulce Liquido
Fear Factory
Front 242
Front Line Assembly
Hocico
Laibach
Ministry
Pig
Suicide Commando

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl Front Line Assembly are none other than Delirium. As in Delerium - Silence (Tiesto ISOS mix). I shit you not.

Slight correction. Delerium is FLA's side project. FLA came first.

5 pages and not a single Skinny Puppy reference!

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