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-- WHAT a disturbing world we live in
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my prom night was more disturbing than this.

quote:

Originally posted by iLLnaDa Sahand hun I think you need a quick review of 2 things 1)Islamic history 2)Iranian/Persian empire

what i was gonna say...she beat me to it

oh and tranceee, at least Iran HAS a womens soccer team

EDIT:

u know whats really disturbing???

women here demanded to be allowed to go topless adn it was passed yet u NEVER see topless women on the streets

quote:

Originally posted by NuERA if the pictures are so degrading and disrespectful, why do you have one in your signature?

b/c i think its shameful and that people should see whats going on in the world of sports which is meant to be pure and free from scenes like such.

isn't the other team from an Arabic/Islamic country?

btw iLLnaDa, I think you are muslim right?
why not cover your hair?

(wondering question, not attacking)

Why don't you do something about it instead of posting on here with your expressions of discontent.

^

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=293805

quote:

Originally posted by iLLnaDa Sahand hun I think you need a quick review of 2 things 1)Islamic history 2)Iranian/Persian empire Now since Iran is a Theocracy (rule of God) there is no distinction btwn religion and politics agreed! so with that said I don't see why there's a problem with women covering since it is stated in the holy Qur'an (sorry i do not have a ref on me im at work). So that is not really the issue? is it??...I think i know what the issue is Iranian regime during the Shah was very different than what it is today, since im not an expert in this subject i will not pretend to know everything lol, however, the point is that women during the Shah's regime had many rights they don't today. For example (these examples come from my thesis supervisor Forough who is an Iranian woman and an academic and was 16 during the Shah's regime) women were able to wear skirts, tank tops and pretty much other clothing that was used in the Western society was pretty much used in Iran and in public places, including make up and flashy jewellery. Sahand would you have had a problem if the soccer player did not have her hair covered?? probably not right? Does it disturb you bc bc the Shah's monarchy ended with the beginnig of what i call the Islamic resurgence in Iran aka THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION which was endorsed by Ayatollah Khomeini and women all of a sudden had very minimal or no rights???(I completely disagree with this revolution bullshit it was AND forever will remain ISLAMIC RESURGENCE/FUNDAMENTALISM) I want to know why it disturbs you so much? For a woman to cover her hair is Islam is in the Qur'an (there are reasons for this); for a women to cover her face 'hijab' (e.g saudi arabia) and wear a 'chador' is more culture based perhaps inspired by the patriarchy and its historic place in religion and most definitely its interpretation. BUT no where in the Qur'an it is stated that a woman must be covered in ALL BLACK ATTIRE from head to toes, at all times.. I would disagree with anyone who refutes this statment!

thanks for actually thinking about this topic as oppose to many others who just come in and go off topic.

well first of all, during the shah era, the country was divided in terms of economic standings. There were the Poor and the Rich . the Rich benefited alot from Shah's regime and very little progress was made.
Unfortunatly, the majority of the population was under the poverty line, and the sought ways to oppose the shah's and his secret police.
khomeini the spiritual leader promised alot of things , the distribution of wealth + more med care etc ...

All through the 1960's and 1970's, people demanded more reforms, more human rights, more freedom, and more democracy!
There were two revolutionary movements. there was the was the religious movement headed by the "ulama" " ayotollahs". they demanded the return to a society based on the ulama administration and Islam. The second movement was a liberal movement that wanted Westernization, but also demanded greater democracy, economic freedom, and human rights. As the revolution proceeded, these two groups gradually merged to form a unified front. but we only saw the "ulema's" promises and soon after the revolution, the country was sunk under a sea of irrational ruling + laws.

point is, I personally am not a religious person. I don't belive in religion and i don't support the ghoran. ( i was raised a muslim)
but thats my own life + opinion.
All I'm trying to indicate by this thread is the fact that ISLAM exists in countries like syria/iraq etc ... and i know that women in saudi arabia are treated alot worse. where in the ghoran does it say women aren't allowed to drive ???


""""I want to know why it disturbs you so much? For a woman to cover her hair is Islam is in the Qur'an (there are reasons for this); for a women to cover her face 'hijab' (e.g saudi arabia) and wear a 'chador' is more culture based perhaps inspired by the patriarchy and its historic place in religion and most definitely its interpretation. BUT no where in the Qur'an it is stated that a woman must be covered in ALL BLACK ATTIRE from head to toes, at all times.. I would disagree with anyone who refutes this statment!""""

it disturbs me because in a country like Iran, millions hate to wear a scarf outside. they constantly seek ways not to wear it or make it look better by pulling their scarf down:







and some LOVE wearing it...
But we're talking about the world of sports.
are you telling me women (muslims from iran) won't ever compete in a swimming competition or if they do , they will wear a scarf + chador in the pool ????

Its the 21st century, traditions are nice to keep , AT SOME POINT. not mandetory and ALL THE time. you should have the freedomw to chose whether you would want to go out wearing a scarf or not ...

the quran also says BEAT your wife if she disobeys you .. its in the women SURAH ... i need to look up and see which line. then i guess if the quran says it , we have to do it !!!

quote:

Originally posted by El Kay Dee ^ http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=293805

...Not the same...But thanks for the effort.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Furious Why don't you do something about it instead of posting on here with your expressions of discontent.

you know why ... b/c im a student at york, and i have my future to look up to ... and this is forum to express your views. and lastly i don't need some anonymous person telling me what to do.

frankly, non of your business. so fak off

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Furious ...Not the same...But thanks for the effort.

Yea. His was something concerning women in sports while urs was just complaining about ur own life...

very true it aint the same.

quote:

Originally posted by TRANCEEEE you know why ... b/c im a student at york, and i have my future to look up to ... and this is forum to express your views. and lastly i don't need some anonymous person telling me what to do. frankly, non of your business. so fak off

...So you just posted it here for attention?

People often say it's ignorant to not have any clue about what's going on in the rest of the world.....I think it's worse to be aware of what's going on, and yet do nothing about it.

Personally, I don't think it's a big deal because they've still come a long way...

"Never discourage a man's progress, no matter how slow the journey" ~plato~

quote:

Originally posted by El Kay Dee Yea. His was something concerning women in sports while urs was just complaining about ur own life... very true it aint the same.

No, I did as much as I could...While being subjected to ridicule, from you as well, while he does absolutely nothing with the excuse "i'm just a student"

Edit: I wasn't complaining about my life...I was bragging, while desperately trying to win the affection and adoration of my peers.

WOW man ... you read my mind ...
Fak ...

PEOPLE LOOK AT ME ... I'm an attention whore.


I'd look at the history of my own threads + thoughts , before i post ... thanks for coming out

the girl talking on the cellphone doesnt look to concerned with it

quote:

Originally posted by TRANCEEEE PEOPLE LOOK AT ME ... I'm an attention whore.

?....

quote:

Originally posted by NuERA the girl talking on the cellphone doesnt look to concerned with it

!?? wow
you can read peoples minds off a random pic
genius

truthfully, some of the pictures in the avatars and sigs on this board are far more dehumanizing to women than the pictures of women playing soccer in their traditional headresses.

Ok, here's my attempt at a serious post.....

Those very women pictured conform to such "unfair human rights" so aren't they partially to blame?

Futhermore, it's their very country that forces them to wear these clothes.

If you ask me, it's not any one thing that can be the magic solution to erradicate such unfair and mysoginistic behaviour. In addition, saying "i'm just a student, what can I do?" is self defeating. There's lot of things you can do, it's just a matter of whether or not you do it. There's power in numbers, and in this case, that statement is more pertinent than anywhere else.

Everyone has to congregate together and rise up against such injustices so that they can be heard. One man or woman isn't going go make a difference, but hundreds of people speaking out against the same common goal can make a big difference.

Furthermore to that, the title "what a disturbing world we live in" is subjective. It's a big world and there's much more disturbing things out there than this....Not that I'm trivialising it, but it's not the worst that could happen....The fact that some women are forced to practice female circumcism is so much worse than this.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper truthfully, some of the pictures in the avatars and sigs on this board are far more dehumanizing to women than the pictures of women playing soccer in their traditional headresses.

I have to agree with this...

Perhaps the wearing of veils and such isn't so much dehumanizing, but more traditional.

I don't know too much about the countries' in question, so I can't say much more on the subject.

...But what about the cultural implications...The crime rate rose 200% in the Soviet Union after the fall of communism. Don't you think having women wearing mini skirts in Iran might have some sort of similar reaction?

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Furious Ok, here's my attempt at a serious post..... Those very women pictured conform to such "unfair human rights" so aren't they partially to blame? Futhermore, it's their very country that forces them to wear these clothes. If you ask me, it's not any one thing that can be the magic solution to erradicate such unfair and mysoginistic behaviour. In addition, saying "i'm just a student, what can I do?" is self defeating. There's lot of things you can do, it's just a matter of whether or not you do it. There's power in numbers, and in this case, that statement is more pertinent than anywhere else. Everyone has to congregate together and rise up against such injustices so that they can be heard. One man or woman isn't going go make a difference, but hundreds of people speaking out against the same common goal can make a big difference. Furthermore to that, the title "what a disturbing world we live in" is subjective. It's a big world and there's much more disturbing things out there than this....Not that I'm trivialising it, but it's not the worst that could happen....I think getting your hand cut off for stealing is a lot more disturbing.

the title represents only a small fraction of our disturbing world. there are OF COURSE worse things out there.

"Im a student @ york, and i have my future to look up to" not JUST a student... meaning, right now all i care about is my future and at this instant i have no intention to make my voice sound as it will require my time + dedication for such complex issues... unless i find some spare time to browse forums and grasp peoples opinions on such subjects/matters.

the mullah's in iran are far too powerful to be overthrown or influenced ... the laws hardly change as there is instability in the supreme court + parlimant. at this moment, the hardliners, president ahmadinejad is in power and he will impose tough censorship and less freedom of speech ,hence practiaclly non existant.



on his forhead there is mark ... maybe photoshoped ... but most likely not ... as I've witnessed such idiotic acts in iran myself ...
his forhead is brused because apparently he's such a religious hardliner that he spends alot of time praying, bowing and planting your forehead on a stone in the long run would cause an imprint on ure forhead !

Before labeling something as degrading or disrespectful the viewpoint that it comes from needs to be acknowledged. Although you may be of Iranian decent, you are also male, live in a Western country and go to a Western University.

As a Western society I don't believe we should try and alter laws in other countries to fit 'our' views of what is appropriate.

If Western society wants to step-in I feel it should be to help organize these commuties at a grassroots level to help them attain the rights and freedoms they want.

quote:

Originally posted by NuERA Before labeling something as degrading or disrespectful the viewpoint that it comes from needs to be acknowledged. Although you may be of Iranian decent, you are also male, live in a Western country and go to a Western University. As a Western society I don't believe we should try and alter laws in other countries to fit 'our' views of what is appropriate. If Western society wants to step-in I feel it should be to help organize these commuties at a grassroots level to help them attain the rights and freedoms they want.

Well said.

quote:

Originally posted by NuERA As a Western society I don't believe we should try and alter laws in other countries to fit 'our' views of what is appropriate. If Western society wants to step-in I feel it should be to help organize these commuties at a grassroots level to help them attain the rights and freedoms they want.

no contry should interfere with another. Each country has a defined culture except "western society" which is a mashup of every other country and is basically quite confused.


PS. its time Bush got the fuck out of Iraq

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Furious Well said.

word. maybe i have a degree in global studies?

quote:

Originally posted by NuERA Before labeling something as degrading or disrespectful the viewpoint that it comes from needs to be acknowledged. Although you may be of Iranian decent, you are also male, live in a Western country and go to a Western University. As a Western society I don't believe we should try and alter laws in other countries to fit 'our' views of what is appropriate. If Western society wants to step-in I feel it should be to help organize these commuties at a grassroots level to help them attain the rights and freedoms they want.

for your information. I've lived there for 11 years. I've seen it all. i label it disrespectful b/c many are FORCED to wear veils against their will. If it was a tradition, then i would have to agree with you. Its not a tradition. It's forced upon people. People in Iran no longer care about politics/religion as much as before. 70 % of the population is under 35 years old ... the 10-15 million in tehran SMUGGLE alcohol / drugs, theres prostitution everywhere (secretly/underground) there are many issues ... this is just one ...
SPORTS + RELIGION/POLITICS should not mix

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