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-- Producer? DJ? There's a difference?
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Originally posted by The Master I know DJ means Disk Jockey. But we are not in the 80's anymore. If you take the term Disk Jockey explicitly then you should leave out artists who mixes on laptops for example, not meaning that they aren't DJs.

I said in the post you quoted that DJ means "someone who plays music". I'm not being deadly literal about the definition, but no matter what technology is used, that definition will not spill over to include writing music.

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The fair thing to do is to have both aspects in mind.

It isn't fair. There was a time when DJs didn't make music at all. It's only the media's obsession with pimping up DJs to the level of rock stars and performers that has given everyone this idea that a DJ should make tracks and have as much profile as possible. There is a daft school of people who think that Sasha dropping Xpander is somehow superior to any other DJ dropping Xpander, because Sasha wrote it. Now we have the likes of Tiesto marketing themselves as performers and playing nothing but their own music.

Even if you do consider production work to be an intergral part of DJing, Armin or A&B are never, ever going to be brilliant musicians, and technically they aren't masterful DJs. They just have their tracks hammered by the trance community, which is why people vote on these tracks. Should we be voting based on how hammered DJs' tracks are, regardless of quality?

I gave the solution to this problem already. Remove the DJ prefix from your name when releasing artist albums, and newbs will understand the difference. Easy as pie. End of discussion.

Most DJs do. Once you reach a certain level of superstardom you erase the "DJ" and are known by a single word legend. Oakey doesn't even use Paul anymore - even his mother probably calls him Oakenfold.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I said in the post you quoted that DJ means "someone who plays music". I'm not being deadly literal about the definition, but no matter what technology is used, that definition will not spill over to include writing music. It isn't fair. There was a time when DJs didn't make music at all. It's only the media's obsession with pimping up DJs to the level of rock stars and performers that has given everyone this idea that a DJ should make tracks and have as much profile as possible. There is a daft school of people who think that Sasha dropping Xpander is somehow superior to any other DJ dropping Xpander, because Sasha wrote it. Now we have the likes of Tiesto marketing themselves as performers and playing nothing but their own music. Even if you do consider production work to be an intergral part of DJing, Armin or A&B are never, ever going to be brilliant musicians, and technically they aren't masterful DJs. They just have their tracks hammered by the trance community, which is why people vote on these tracks. Should we be voting based on how hammered DJs' tracks are, regardless of quality?

I stand firm by saying it is the most fair thing to do.

Just imagine if there was no production skill considered ever. Where would be Sasha, Tiesto, Armin, A&B, and basically all the artists who constructed the musical part of the EDM scene?

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J And you're going to accomplish what with whining about it in this very thread?

You made this thread not me, why would I take the initiative on something YOU care about?

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What the hell do you think we're discussing in this thread? Anybody who reads this is gonna get a clear picture of what parameters a DJ should be voted for, aren't they?

Or you could, you know, be more constructive about it instead of ranting about the very people you're trying to reach.

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Don't give me that "people like you are harming TA" crap, because that's blatant "I care for this community, now praise me" attention-seeking. You flaming me for flaming others is hypocrisy.

I'm not flaming you for flaming other people, I'm flaming you because the method you're trying to reach the masses with is nothing more than a bandwagon rant that just promotes a stroke fest. I never claimed to "care" for this community, so I don't know where the hell you're getting that from. A lot of the vocal parts of this community is made up of people like you who sit here all day regurtitating the same complaints that other people have already posted.

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If you think flaming should be cut out of TA, then don't respond to flames. Fuelling a flame thread by flaming in it isn't very high and mighty is it shogun?

I don't think flaming should be cut out, never said that. Also, apparently I'm a shogun now who thinks he's high and mighty? Ok buddy you might want to adhere to your own policy of not assuming characteristics of people.

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I'd say it's dickheads like you who encourage people to shoot their opinion off when they don't know what they're talking about that is dragging TA down, and cultivating a general consensus that people here are blind fanboys.

How am I encouraging to people to shoot off their opinions when they don't know what they're talking about? Where the hell are you getting all of this garbage? I'm also not cultivating any kind of general consensus - there ARE a lot of blind fanboys here, but they're a vocal minority.

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And to paraphrase: this is the Internet, where people can rant if they want, asshat.

You are so witty! If you don't like someone flaming you, ignore it and move on if you really think your thread is trying to accomplish something. Of course you won't though, so keep trying to defend your INTERNET HONOR@@

quote:

Originally posted by The Master I stand firm by saying it is the most fair thing to do. Just imagine if there was no production skill considered ever. Where would be Sasha, Tiesto, Armin, A&B, and basically all the artists who constructed the musical part of the EDM scene?

Let's say the actually DID construct the musical part. They'd still be recognizes as top producers.

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Originally posted by The Master I stand firm by saying it is the most fair thing to do. Just imagine if there was no production skill considered ever. Where would be Sasha, Tiesto, Armin, A&B, and basically all the artists who constructed the musical part of the EDM scene?

Have you ever listened to a Sasha set?? I have no clue how you're stating that Sasha wouldn't be big if production skills weren't included in the evaluation.

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Originally posted by The Master Just imagine if there was no production skill considered ever. Where would be Sasha, Tiesto, Armin, A&B, and basically all the artists who constructed the musical part of the EDM scene?

They'd still be popular for their productions, it just wouldn't affect their placing on the DJ lists.

Believe it or not, the DJ List is not the last word on popularity for DJs.

Oh, and apart from Sasha, none of the names you mentioned have constructed much significant to EDM. They just took the tracks from people who did pioneer musical trends and popularised them.

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Originally posted by akkare You made this thread not me, why would I take the initiative on something YOU care about?

I wasn't asking that. I'm asking why you are bothering to post in a topic you evidently don't consider to be of any merit or import. Because it looks like you are only doing it to grab a little attention. The discussion is going on fine, and you aren't contributing to it. And if you aren't, you are spamming and can fuck off.

Yikes, I have no idea why akkare and System J are arguing like this, I always imagined you two as people who would get along well together. I have read J's posts many many times on here, and I have talked to akkare on our local forum and even met him in person once, and both of you appear to have the same views on alot of things. Akkare I think it was a bit presumptuous calling system j a bandwagon jumper. He has alot of ideas that he has thought up all on his own and posted here before.

You two should really be getting along better than this, you seem to have alot more in common than you realize.

It seems that the definition of "DJ" is changing, I think back in the day there was a very strong defining line for what a DJ was, but now that people are performing in the same fashion as a DJ but without technically spinning records, it is harder to define who is a DJ and who is not. Many would simply define a DJ as a person who provides a musical perfomance for a dancefloor, especially since there are so many shades of gray between DJ and producer that didnt exist before. That being said I do tend to think that DJ's should not be judged by their CD releases but rather on the performances that they give at parties.

In some ways the quality of a performance depends on those production releases because they help attract a crowd of people, and that crowd of people has a very strong influence on how much fun the party is, and the amount of fun had at a party is a very important factor in judging the quality of a DJ. So in some way the production work of a DJ does have an effect on their live performances, because you don't have much of a party without first attracting a crowd of people, and one has to put alot of effort into attracting the right people. I wish more DJ's would put effort into making sure that they attract the right people to their performances, it is an important factor that not everybody considers when they try to make a party. The crowd that shows up to the party is always an important factor in judging the quality of a DJ.

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Originally posted by Zombie0915 Yikes, I have no idea why akkare and System J are arguing like this, I always imagined you two as people who would get along well together. I have read J's posts many many times on here, and I have talked to akkare on our local forum and even met him in person once, and both of you appear to have the same views on alot of things. Akkare I think it was a bit presumptuous calling system j a bandwagon jumper. He has alot of ideas that he has thought up all on his own and posted here before.

I called him out for shitting on the very people he was trying to reach, and posting a thread on something that is essentially regurgitated from a couple other places on TA. He kept trying to defend himself leading to the branching flame war. We may have the same views on a lot of things, but mine aren't tainted with elitism and looking down upon the masses - I prefer to educate them, rather than insult them.

One approach (starting a thread to discuss on what exactly defines a DJ to help educate the masses for the next time) is very different from the other (flaming the masses, then discussion).

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Originally posted by akkare I called him out for shitting on the very people he was trying to reach, and he kept trying to defend himself leading to the branching flame war.

Actually, this began because you jumped to a massive assumption to try and gain a free put-down, and have since been arguing pointlessly over everything I've said.

you're both idiots.

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Originally posted by WingDing you're both idiots.

Lovely. Now can everyone who isn't on topic just leave this thread?

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Actually, this began because you jumped to a massive assumption to try and gain a free put-down, and have since been arguing pointlessly over everything I've said.

What massive assumption? You posted a thread flaming the masses which has already been done in multiple other places, there's nothing to assume.

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Originally posted by akkare What massive assumption? You posted a thread flaming the masses which has already been done in multiple other places, there's nothing to assume.

The assumption is that I only posted this thread to latch on to the bandwagon, when it's part of my TA manifesto to get people to stop associating the two.

Now, will you leave the thread? This must be the fifth time I've told you to get out, but you just stick around. I didn't make this thread to argue over why I made it.

this thread rules.

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Originally posted by Ishkur this thread rules.

Can you add to its glory by plagarising one of your older musings on the subject?

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Originally posted by akkare I called him out for shitting on the very people he was trying to reach, and posting a thread on something that is essentially regurgitated from a couple other places on TA. He kept trying to defend himself leading to the branching flame war. We may have the same views on a lot of things, but mine aren't tainted with elitism and looking down upon the masses - I prefer to educate them, rather than insult them. One approach (starting a thread to discuss on what exactly defines a DJ to help educate the masses for the next time) is very different from the other (flaming the masses, then discussion).

very true, I'm just a bit sad that you two aren't getting along better.

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Originally posted by Zombie0915 very true, I'm just a bit sad that you two aren't getting along better.

holy shit

that post was short

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J The assumption is that I only posted this thread to latch on to the bandwagon, when it's part of my TA manifesto to get people to stop associating the two.

Well, whether you want to or not, you're latched right onto that bandwagon by writing that scathing rant to begin with

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Now, will you leave the thread? This must be the fifth time I've told you to get out, but you just stick around. I didn't make this thread to argue over why I made it.

lol @ you telling me to "leave your thread", it's cute.

If you didn't want to make an argument over it, then you shouldn't have responded to my post.

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Originally posted by akkare Well, whether you want to or not, you're latched right onto that bandwagon by writing that scathing rant to begin with

How am I following a bandwagon by continuing an agenda I've pursued for ages on TA? That my post was triggered by the TA Top 100 DJs thread does not mean I jumped a bandwagon, as I didn't make this thread to emulate other threads.

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lol @ you telling me to "leave your thread", it's cute.

As soon as a mod comes into MD, I'll have you removed from it, as is my right. You're spamming up the thread and so breaking forum rules.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J As soon as a mod comes into MD, I'll have you removed from it, as is my right. You're spamming up the thread and so breaking forum rules.

Right, I'm spamming up your thread because I called your post repetitive, and criticized your method of reaching the masses? I hope the mods leave my posts in just to show you and others that this should NOT be the norm for discussion, by starting off it off with shitting on the community.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Cinos I'm telling you DJ's should be renamed "Recordspinners".

u obviously dont have the slightest clue about DJing...

I agree with System-J on this subject. This is something which can't be stressed enough. Hopefully this will enlighten people and won't make fool of themselves by having Above & Beyond ranked higher than Sasha in a top DJ vote. LOL! It's really hard to grasp.
akkare: this has nothing to do with bandwagons and I don't know what you are about but this is something which people really should think about and which clearly shows in this and other threads; alot of people actually don't have a fuckin clue about the difference betweend DJ and producer. And still alot of those who knows the difference thinks that a DJ must be a good producer to become a good DJ. Since when does good production skills make good DJ skills?
Give me a break.

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