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-- Jihad on Denmark - freedom of expression rears its ugly head once again...
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@ Trancaholic: Could you post the Muhammad pictures here so I could see what all this nonsense is about?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z @ Trancaholic: Could you post the Muhammad pictures here so I could see what all this nonsense is about?

http://www.di2.nu/files/Muhammed_Ca...nds_Posten.html

Some of them are really provocating.... But I guess that was the point!

I thought pic 2 was actually kind of funny . Althought 3 of them were a little distasteful and smack of ignorance/bigotry. They reinforce the negative stereo type about Muslims and Arabs. The one with the bomb strapped to his head. And the other two which suggest he opresses women. Althougt even I'm a little confused now as to why Muslims got SOOOO worked up about this (yes, I know, the taboo thing on visual representations of the Prophet, but I have never seen anything in the Quran stating such a thing nor has anyone ever supported this argument with scripture).

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z I thought pic 2 was actually kind of funny . Althought 3 of them were a little distasteful and smack of ignorance/bigotry. They reinforce the negative stereo type about Muslims and Arabs. The one with the bomb strapped to his head. And the other two which suggest he opresses women. Althougt even I'm a little confused now as to why Muslims got SOOOO worked up about this

I think the post from tranceaholic pretty much answers it, the religion in many cases is stuck in an outdated world, especially in europe & the US where things are different from what they're used to. I have no problems with muslims wanting to pray or follow their religion in any country, but there's many misconceptions about all religions, and as a multi-cultural society & world, we're going to have to learn to be educated & at least respectful, regardless. Sadly a lot of problems come with the muslims vs hindus or muslims vs christians or muslims vs jews. It's time (i mean come on its 2006, not the year 12ad or whatever, that people learn tolerance & even if they don't agree with what religion people follow, they accept freedom of choice. sadly i don't see this getting better soon

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I thought pic 2 was actually kind of funny .

I liked number three as well - had sort of a recursive world within world idea to it. Another comment that I thought I'd make, is that the small woman-Mohammed standing next to the hippie in picture 5 is a charicature of Pia Kjaersgaard, who is the current president and founder of the right-wing nationalistic party in Denmark. That being said, I don't recognize any of the others in that picture, and don't really get the joke. The same goes for 6, 8, 9, 10, and 11.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I thought pic 2 was actually kind of funny .

Yea me too

Althgouth I really liked the thought that went into #7, I thought that was quiet clever.....


Oh the guy in 11 and 5 (right-end) look the same, am thinking it is probably the editor of the paper... As for the rest of the people in #5, one is obviously Jesus...

Just thought I would post the latest update: Apparently, a large part of Saudis have initiated a boycott of products produced by danish companies - a way of behaviour that is expected to spread to nearby countries. There's even reports of chains of dealers who have thrown out large quantities of merchandise because of its origin. It is not totally clear what the purpose of the boycott is, but companies might be able to escape it by publicly condemning Jyllandsposten. Moreover, I saw in a danish paper that Norwegian products might be subject to boycott as well.
Considering the general injustice handed down to the arab population by foreign powers over the years, I think it's insane to chose this incident as the most worthy of organised revenge in the form of a boycott. Furthermore, I don't understand why Sweden avoids this fate - or any other country who contains a citizen who've published the drawings on his web-site.

Anyway, two articles I found on the net. One is
from CanadaFreePress.com and one is from Aljazeerah. They report on the same thing, but boy do they do so in different manners:

quote:

European Appeasement Reinforces Muslim Extremism The Brussels Journal has reported on the developments in the Danish cartoon case since it started in October 2005. We are one of the few non-Danish European observers to do so. Last Sunday, instead of linking to a website with the twelve Danish Muhammad cartoons we decided to add them to our article about the case. In a sense we were republishing the cartoons, but as we are only a website with some 5,000 readers a day, have no paper edition and did not make a great fuss about publishing them we only received two �threats.� One e-mail, from a certain �Hayet� said: hello; Les vrais trait de visage de notre profet (que seul les musulmans) les connais sont d�un homme le plus beau de monde donc votre photo est rat� The real trace face of our profet mohamed are the best; he is the best beautiful men in the word. Your photo is misfire The other, from a certain �Siham,� said: good morning you must take us a lot of excuses We respect your profect and all profects; and you you must respect our profect for not to have in futur other problems between us Both emails were sent via the same IP address in Algeria, indicating that �Hayet� is probably �Siham.� The best way to end the whole cartoon affair would be for as many websites, blogs and papers in Europe just to publish the cartoons in an act of defiance to extremists. Moderate Muslims take no offense at the cartoons, as could be seen last week in Denmark where the refusal of the government to give in to demands for press censorship has encouraged the moderates to speak out against the radicals. As Glenn Reynolds wrote in a comment on the affair: �I think that moderate Muslims are a lot more likely to speak out if they feel confident that the government will stand up to the immoderate ones.� This is an appeal to all of us, not just our governments: If we all stand up to the extremist Muslims the moderate ones will be encouraged to speak out. We have been critical (and still are) of the Dutch Somali-born politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali on account of her opposition to religion and religious people but Ms Hirsi Ali had a point yesterday when she said that the only way to confront the radicals is a free and open debate. Sadly, she says, there is no free and open debate �because of the complacency and self-censorship of Europe�s political and intellectual elites, the self-pity of the Muslims, and the threat of violence by the jihadists.� Indeed, it is the appeasement attitude and behaviour of the Europeans that is strenghtening the power of the extremists over the moderate Muslims. Hirsi Ali was speaking in The Hague where she received the �European of the Year Award� from our American friend (and former inhabitant of Brussels) Conrad Kiechel, the editor of the international editions of Readers� Digest. The European commissioner Neelie Croes said in her speech that Hirsi Ali is sometimes criticised because of her confrontational approach. �If you believe in eternal life you can afford to be sophisticated. If you do not, you need rebels on this earth to bring about change. Ayaan is a rebel.� In our opinion the Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen would have been a better candidate for the European of the Year Award. He is not a rebel but a man of principles. Europe does not need rebellion to change things; all it needs is to stand by its principles in order to safeguard its civilization. One of our readers drew our attention to the wise commentary of Mona Eltahawy, a journalist of Egyptian Muslim origin, in today�s Daily Star. Unlike Ms Hirsi Ali, Ms Eltahawy has not turned against religion as the root of all evil, but practices a liberal Islam by speaking out against the militancy and terrorism committed in the name of her religion. She writes about the cartoon case: Can we finally admit that Muslims have blown out of all proportion their outrage over 12 cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammad published in a Danish newspaper last September? [...] The initial printing of the cartoons in Denmark led to death threats being issued against the artists, demonstrations in Kashmir, and condemnation from 11 countries. What did any of this achieve but prove the original point of the newspaper�s culture editor, that artists in Europe were censoring themselves because they feared Muslim reaction? [...] Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen was right not to intervene, insisting the government has no say over media � the argument used by Arab leaders when they are asked about anti-Semitism in their media, by the way. [...] What should have remained a local issue turned into a diplomatic uproar that Muslims otherwise rarely provoke when fighting for their rights around the world. Perhaps the Muslim governments who spearheaded the campaign � led by Egypt � felt this was an easy way to burnish their Islamic credentials at a time when domestic Islamists are stronger than they have been in many years. Must we really boycott Danish products, as one e-mail I received exhorted? [...] Here are a few facts we should remember. However offensive any of the 12 cartoons were, they did not incite violence against Muslims. For an example of incitement, though, one must go back a few weeks before the cartoons were published. In August, the Danish authorities withdrew for three months the broadcasting license of a Copenhagen radio station after it called for the extermination of Muslims. Those were real threats and the government protected Muslims � the same government later condemned for not punishing the newspaper that published the cartoons. Second, the cartoon incident belongs at the very center of the kind of debate that Muslims must have in the European countries where they live - particularly after the Madrid train bombings of 2003 and the London subway bombings of 2005. While right-wing anti-immigration groups whip up Islamophobia in Denmark, Muslim communities wallow in denial over the increasing role of their own extremists. As just one example, last August Fadi Abdullatif, the spokesman for the Danish branch of the militant Hizb-ut-Tahrir organization, was charged with calling for the killing of members of the Danish government. [...] Muslims must honestly examine why there is such a huge gap between the way we imagine Islam and our prophet, and the way both are seen by others. Our offended sensibilities must not be limited to the Danish newspaper or the cartoonist, but to those like Fadi Abdullatif whose actions should be regarded as just as offensive to Islam and to our reverence for the prophet. Otherwise, we are all responsible for those Danish cartoons. We need Muslims like Ms Eltahawy, who speak out against the extremists. We need Western journalists and politicians who support them by not allowing themselves to be intimidated by the extremists. But where are these journalists and politicians? None of his European colleagues has dared to publicly support Mr Rasmussen. On the contrary, both the European Union and the Council of Europe (as well as the United Nations) criticized Denmark over the cartoons. Only a handful of Europe�s papers and magazines has publicly supported a Danish newspaper�s decision to publish the cartoons. Most European mainstream media have not even dared to write about the case, leaving the European public in complete ignorance of a very important international conflict that has been going on for four months now.

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Islam and the West: Who Hates Whom? The Danish Case By Fahmi Howaidi The Danish government�s attitude toward the blasphemous caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) published by a newspaper in the country should not be dismissed lightly as it is typical of the manner in which Western governments and intellectuals treat topics related to Islam. The lethargic reaction of the Muslim governments to the European newspaper�s outrageous treatment of the Prophet too deserves censure. It was on Sept.30 last year that a popular Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published 12 caricatures of the Prophet. Matters were further exacerbated by the chief editor of the newspaper who in a comment expressed his �abhorrence� at the veneration of their Prophet by Muslims. The drawings were more than a shock to the 180,000-strong Muslim community who represent three percent of Denmark�s population. The Muslim diplomats in Copenhagen felt outraged. Eleven of them held a meeting and demanded an immediate apology from the newspaper. As the chief editor refused to comply with their demand, the envoys requested a meeting with the prime minister of the country to register their protest at this insult to Islam. Anders Fogh Rasmussen refused to meet them but informed the envoys through his office that since the issue involved the freedom of expression his administration could not interfere in the matter. They were told to resort to legal action if they desired. On learning about the affront to the Prophet, Secretary-General of the Organization of the Islamic Conference Dr. Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu wrote to the Danish prime minister and the top officials of the European Union and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) requesting them to stop the hate campaign against Islam and take a stern stand against attempts to malign the Prophet. The gist of their response was that nothing could be done to stop the campaign, as the freedom of expression was the cornerstone of the Danish democracy. In the meantime the ambassadors of the Muslim nations in Geneva complained to the Human Rights Commission saying that the Danish newspaper was inciting racism and hatred against the Muslims. The commission agreed to look into the matter and prepare a report by the 24th of this month. At the Islamic summit meeting held in Makkah last month, the Muslim leaders discussed the issue and expressed deep concern over the media campaigns against Islam and the Prophet. The participants emphasized the responsibility of all governments to guarantee respect for all religions without allowing anyone to make the freedom of expression a cover for insulting a religion. After three months of silence, the EU commissioner for Justice Franco Frattini commented that publishing such cartoons was not a wise move as such acts would only inflame passions and encourage extremism in Europe. While 22 Danish ambassadors with working experience in Arab countries criticized their government for its stand on the issue, a delegation of Danish Muslims representing 21 organizations visited Cairo and met with the Sheikh of Al-Azhar and the secretary-general of the Arab League. The foreign ministers of the Arab countries too criticized the negative attitude of the Danish government. The OIC secretary-general informed Danish authorities of the OIC decision to boycott a Danish exhibition entitled �Impressions of the Middle East� the cost of which was to be shared by Denmark and some Arab countries. He asked the Muslim countries to stick to this decision to register their protest against the European country�s position in the matter. Finally, the Danish premier�s response came in his New Year message to the nation in which he said that his government condemned any expression or conduct that offended the sentiments of any community. If the Copenhagen authorities thought that this was the end of the matter they were mistaken. It is quite evident that the wound is too deep to be healed by some generalized statements issued reluctantly. In the meantime some Muslim organizations in Denmark filed a suit against the newspaper. The public prosecutor refused to admit the case on the ground that the publication of the cartoons came under the purview of the freedom of expression, which enjoys legal protection in Denmark. The issue became more complicated with another conservative Christian daily in Norway reproducing the cartoons. It is not surprising that some media persons behave impudently against the symbols of Islam as fanatics and hatemongers are found in every society, particularly in the West and often their intolerance of Islam rises above the voices of the intellectuals who speak with reason and fairness. What is most disturbing is the careless attitude of the Danish government, which should have taken a stand consistent with justice and public decency. No system of law in the world claims that desecrating the symbols of Islam and the Prophet, or any other religion for that matter, is the right way to exercise one�s freedom of expression. The freedom of expression is conditional on public good. Anglo Saxon and Latin legal systems, apart from the Islamic law, give protection for the freedom of expression as long as it serves the interests of society as a whole and does not lead to inflaming passions and disrupting social harmony. The highest constitutional courts in the United States stipulate that the freedom of expression is guaranteed only as long as it carries a minimum of redeeming qualities. Every legal system considers it a crime to abuse and malign others. Abusing is an aggression on another individual. Abusing the Prophet of Islam is a serious crime because nearly one quarter of the world�s population believes that he is the Messenger of God. Dr. Ahmad Kemal Abul Majid, an expert on international law, said that even if an offending publication can�t be hauled into court of law there was a moral and political obligation on the part of the government to condemn such acts in the interest of the religious and cultural diversity of a country. It is also disturbing to note that the Muslim governments have not been forthright in expressing their displeasure at the Danish government�s reluctance to condemn the affront to the sentiments of Muslims. Are we to understand that abusing the Prophet is a less serious offense than an insult to an Arab head of state that would have triggered angry reactions accompanied by withdrawal of ambassadors and threat of severing diplomatic and economic relations. Should it not be feared that official silence over such issues in the Muslim and Arab world would play into the hands of extremists in the Muslim communities who are waiting for an opportunity to choose the path of violence . The Danish drawings also reopen the question that is often raised whenever the topic of the relations between Islam and the West comes up: Really who hates whom?

I won't purport to be impartial to the two accounts, but nevertheless it is quite clear to me that with views so opposite to each other, it seems hard to find a common ground. However, that being said, I want to point out that the piece from Aljazeerah falls below decent reporting, in effect calling Jyllandsposten a "conservative Christian" paper. It's liberal, and have been so since its conception. Furthermore, I think it's indecent to accuse others of hating you, and then dismiss their attempts at reconciliation as "generalized statements issued reluctantly" without stating what you feel is needed instead.
But most importantly, I think that the description of the legal status of free speech in the West is quite a distortion. Stating that you're only allowed free speech if what you're saying can be justified as constructive, is hardly correct.
I would love to hear someone point out the flaws in the piece from CFP .

This just prooves a point I've made in the past that multiculturalism does not work when you have people that disrespect and even hate the values possessed by those in their adoptive country. There are alot of people from many countries all over the world who would like to live in Denmark who would be thankful for the opertunity. To live in a country that you were not born in is a privilege, not a right.

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Originally posted by St_Andrew And I must say it pisses me off more and more for each day... Those who don't believe in free speech defently don't belong in our free societies...

+1

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Originally posted by trancaholic

I also read that Saudi Arabia recalled a diplomat from Denmark?

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Originally posted by St_Andrew I also read that Saudi Arabia recalled a diplomat from Denmark?

Yes - their ambassador. The Danish People's Party have asked him to bring a letter back with him to his government, in which it is explained how the Danish society is divided into institutions, and how the relations of power are between these. The reason for giving him this letter is that "he has obviously failed in his duty to explain these matters to his people".
Anyway, I just saw that the Norwegian Foreign Ministry had emailed their ambassadors in muslim countries, and encouraged them to denounce the printings in Magazinet, and state that the Norwegian people abhor anything that could offend other cultures/religions. Way to go Norway! Sometimes I wonder why it's more ok to offend liberalists than members of any other minority?

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Originally posted by trancaholic Yes - their ambassador. The Danish People's Party have asked him to bring a letter back with him to his government, in which it is explained how the Danish society is divided into institutions, and how the relations of power are between these. The reason for giving him this letter is that "he has obviously failed in his duty to explain these matters to his people".

For once I might actually agree with something the DPP has said...

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Anyway, I just saw that the Norwegian Foreign Ministry had emailed their ambassadors in muslim countries, and encouraged them to denounce the printings in Magazinet, and state that the Norwegian people abhor anything that could offend other cultures/religions. Way to go Norway! Sometimes I wonder why it's more ok to offend liberalists than members of any other minority?

Wow, that is reeeeally stupid by Norway. I'm actually suprised my incompetent goverment hasn't done the same. Guess they don't wanna stir in the debate any further (they got the major newspapers against them even before it started). Although the pic I saw was only a very moderate one, and not very provocating, though I *think* some other newspaper published drawings as well.

You know the USA has KKK, does that mean the entire America is anti-semitic?

Bill Maher sometimes makes insensitive comments about religions, does that mean America should be boycotted?

Yet another example that Arabs lag behind in education: Their students do not study logic they commit the fallacy of singling out and generalizing based on particular examples I call for more logic classes in Arab schools.

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Abusing the Prophet of Islam is a serious crime because nearly one quarter of the world�s population believes that he is the Messenger of God.

...

Because we believe, you have to believe you!

Because we revere him, you must revere him too!

We have laws regarding our religion, therefore you must follow those laws as well!

...

Muslim extremists ftl.

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd You know the USA has KKK, does that mean the entire America is anti-semitic? Bill Maher sometimes makes insensitive comments about religions, does that mean America should be boycotted? Yet another example that Arabs lag behind in education: Their students do not study logic they commit the fallacy of singling out and generalizing based on particular examples I call for more logic classes in Arab schools.

1. I dont understand how the KKK is more tollerated than Janet Jackson showing a boob at the Super Bowl.

2. He does but so do all comedians the christian yahoo's in this country pick apart each world and most of the time he tells the truth about how religion is so fucked up

3. I would like to see some facts about this although the thing I have against not Arabs but Muslims is that their religion is so lacking in modernness(lol) I mean you cant even say 1 bad thing about their religion imagine Bill Maher saying a joke about the quiran or whatever...death is certain then

So apperntly the boycott is having an effect. Sevral danish companies (especially Arla), is going nuts over this. And also the editor of Jyllands Posten wrote an open letter explaining he didn't mean to offend anyone... Interesting...

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Islam and the West: Who Hates Whom? The Danish Case By Fahmi Howaidi The freedom of expression is conditional on public good. Anglo Saxon and Latin legal systems, apart from the Islamic law, give protection for the freedom of expression as long as it serves the interests of society as a whole and does not lead to inflaming passions and disrupting social harmony. The highest constitutional courts in the United States stipulate that the freedom of expression is guaranteed only as long as it carries a minimum of redeeming qualities.

Looks like the rest of the world is as clueless about the laws of other countries as their locals are...

It so silly, instead of actually trying to look up and understand what the laws of Denmark say, and what free speech actually means in the west, he simply interjects what free speech means in the Arab world and preachs it as truth.

Then, to completely just prove his stupidity, he inserts the claim that "Islamic" free-speech is better because it allows people to say whatever they hell they want.... when clearly he does not champion this right.



Anyway so stupid.

I'm sure you Vikings will give in to these Muslims... Europeans love to appease, and it'll be too late when you wake up and remember what your values are, and remember that they are worth more than being able to make $1 million more in export sales, are more important than the tranquility of your economy, and are more important than your very lives. These values that Denmark and Norway seems so dear to throughout the window are what makes your societies so great and what they are, and to allow your enemies to turn and reverse your ideals to accomadate them and destroy your own society, just seems well, stupid.

Quick update from Reuters:

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Denmark refuses to apologize over Prophet cartoons COPENHAGEN (Reuters) - Denmark's Prime Minister said on Sunday his government could not act against satirical cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed after Libya closed its embassy in Copenhagen amid growing Muslim anger over the dispute. The newspaper Jyllands-Posten had not intended to insult Muslims when it published the drawings, Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen said, referring to an editorial on the paper's Web site in Danish and Arabic. But while Rasmussen tried to assuage Muslim anger, Libya on Sunday closed its embassy in Denmark in protest at the drawings. Earlier this week, Saudi Arabia recalled its ambassador from Denmark and Saudi religious leaders have urged a boycott of Danish products. "Because the Danish media had continued to show disrespect to the Prophet Mohammed and because the Danish authorities failed to take any responsible action on that, Libya decided to close its embassy in Copenhagen," the Libyan Foreign Ministry said in a statement. It also threatened to take unspecified "economic measures" against Denmark. EU trade chief Peter Mandelson met a Saudi minister at a meeting in the Swiss mountain resort of Davos on Sunday and "urged the minister to convey the seriousness of this issue to his government," his spokesman said. "Any boycott of Danish goods would be seen as a boycott of European goods," said spokesman Peter Power. Islam considers images of prophets disrespectful and caricatures of them blasphemous. Since Jyllands-Posten published the drawings in September, the Danish government has repeatedly defended the right of free speech. "The government can in no way could influence the media. And the Danish government and the Danish nation as such can not be held responsible for what is published in independent media," Fogh Rasmussen said. The newspaper has not apologized for publishing the drawings, which have caused widespread anger among Muslims around the world. In a demonstration on the West Bank, members of Fatah's al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades threatened Danes in the area and told them to leave immediately, the Danish news agency Ritzau reported on Sunday. The demonstrators burned the Danish flag and called on the Palestinian authorities to cut diplomatic ties with Denmark, Ritzau said. "We are sorry the matter has reached these proportions and repeat that we had no intention to offend anyone, and that we as the rest of the Danish society respect freedom of religion," the newspaper's editor-in-chief Carsten Juste said in the editorial. Fogh Rasmussen was speaking at a joint news conference with visiting Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who said he was satisfied with the newspaper's explanation and the Danish government's view. "Prime Minister Rasmussen explained Denmark's position on that (the drawings), which was very satisfactory to me as a Muslim," Karzai said. The Danish government has broad public backing for it stance on the cartoons. An opinion poll showed that 79 percent of Danes think Fogh Rasmussen should not issue an apology and 62 percent say the newspaper should not apologize.

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Originally posted by Yoepus I'm sure you Vikings will give in to these Muslims... Europeans love to appease

I hope you're wrong - and the poll cited above seems to indicate that you are.
Anyway, while Arab muslims are of course free to choose the products they want, it is hard to sympathize with what they're doing right now. By boycotting products from Danish companies, they are in effect acting racist. Furthermore, there are several examples of companies, who have been boycotted, which are not Danish at all. Similarly, several of the actual products boycotted are produced locally in the Middle East, and since the boycott is instigated by conclusions drawn from several steps of severely flawed reasoning, it thus ends up looking like one big costly mistake on the Arabs' part.
What I find very interesting is the EU's response to this. So far the governments of Libya, Kuwait, and Yemen have directly taken steps to hurt Danish interests. This could trigger quite a set back to relations between these countries and the EU. At least if the EU shows some balls this time.
Saudi-arabia has gone about things in a bit more subtle manner, by leaving the religious estabslishment to organize the boycotts.

This situation is so freakin ridiculous!

EDIT: And it's not going to help eigther "party."

@ Trancaholic: So if I were to make a trip to Denmark rightnow, would I be greeted with hostility?

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z @ Trancaholic: So if I were to make a trip to Denmark rightnow, would I be greeted with hostility?

Only if you drove your SUV

Nah, there's about the same xenophobia here as usual. But there's quite a few people who are angry with some of the more radical Danish muslim organizations. (They've been fanning the flames since the beginning of this ordeal.) So far there has been very few direct clashes/threats between muslims and atheists/christians though. I think that's because most Danish muslims are aware of the seperation of power between intitutions, and most Danes know that most muslims know this.

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic Only if you drove your SUV

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Originally posted by trancaholic Nah, there's about the same xenophobia here as usual. But there's quite a few people who are angry with some of the more radical Danish muslim organizations. (They've been fanning the flames since the beginning of this ordeal.) So far there has been very few direct clashes/threats between muslims and atheists/christians though. I think that's because most Danish muslims are aware of the seperation of power between intitutions, and most Danes know that most muslims know this.

Cool .

And the first consequences of the anger in the Middle East have manifested themselves:

- Arla closes down all operations in Saudi-arabia. 800 locals will probably lose their jobs, and a planned investment of $70 mill in a new dairy down there has been cut.

- The Danish Red Cross and Norwegian People's Aid have both withdrawn their staff from Gaza.

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic And the first consequences of the anger in the Middle East have manifested themselves: - Arla closes down all operations in Saudi-arabia. 800 locals will probably lose their jobs, and a planned investment of $70 mill in a new dairy down there has been cut. - The Danish Red Cross and Norwegian People's Aid have both withdrawn their staff from Gaza.

Maybe some good will come of this when the rest of the West finally understands the type of racedup , excited, irrational, people they are dealing with in most of the middle east. Unfortunatley they do not share our sympathies. And they love to blow things out of proportion (remember the Jenin 'massacre' when all of 20 terrorist died at the same time?!)...

Its so silly, when their salvation is right at hand, they go on and get more radical and more fundamental.


On a P.S.
Must suck to be the editor the newspaper right now, I am confident several terrorist groups are all ready planning to take him out. I'm not actually sure what money a newspaper has to buy bodygaurds..

Put I wouldn't leave home (or stay in it for that matter) without them.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus On a P.S. Must suck to be the editor the newspaper right now, I am confident several terrorist groups are all ready planning to take him out. I'm not actually sure what money a newspaper has to buy bodygaurds.. Put I wouldn't leave home (or stay in it for that matter) without them.

One would hope he gets protection...

Anyway, this is getting ridiculous indeed...

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Originally posted by St_Andrew One would hope he gets protection...

He does - 24h "police protection", whatever that may be.
Anyway, I must say that I'm an extremely disappointed man today: I'm disappointed in the EU, for its failure to act in unison in this matter. I'm even more disappointed/puzzled by all the foreign media, which have so far failed to pick up on the story - I would have guessed that freedom of speech, and foreign demands of censorship would hit at the very core of news organisations.
Then I'm disappointed in Jyllands-posten for issuing not one, but two apologies. Furthermore, Arab media have failed to cover these apologies, with Al-jazeera being the prime offender, having translated all parts of an interview with an editor from JP, except the part where he says he's sorry about the furor.
I'm also somewhat disappointed in Bill Clinton, for seemingly getting on the Arab fundamentalist side in this.
Finally, I'm fundamentally shaken by what seems to become a fact: Danes are subject to censorship from illeterate religious barbarians not even living in Denmark. That's hard to take for a liberal agnostic.


However, it seems like it's the Americans who are the Danes best friends today:

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Buy Danish! to counter the Islamic boycott (updated!) Several months ago an international boycott was launched against Israel by educational unions in the UK. Leftist churches have passed anti-Israel investment policies. For some reason political boycotts always come from the Left, and they are always one-sided. Now Denmark is the target. It�s the �cartoon crisis!� After the newspaper Jyllands Posten published satirical cartoons featuring Mohammed, the Islamic world has been building up a head of steam. How could the Danes laugh at the Prophet, and worse, publish drawings of Allah�s ultimate representative on earth? Pictorial depictions of the human figure are a big taboo; pictures of Mohammed are even worse; and satirical cartoons of Mohammed are the ueber-ueber-taboo to the fundamentalists. The Prime Minister of Denmark, Fogh Rasmussen, has given a simple answer. �Freedom of expression is deeply ingrained in a society where democracy prevails.� So there. Now the Saudis and Libyans have recalled their ambassadors to Copenhagen, and the Yemen Parliament has condemned the �cartoon outrage.� �BAHRAIN�S parliament will meet in an extraordinary session today as outrage grows over offensive caricatures depicting Prophet Mohammed, published in Denmark and Norway. MPs have urged a nationwide boycott of Danish and Norwegian products, until the countries apologise.� The Jyllands Posten now has a 24 hour police guard on its building. Needless to say, the Danes (and later the Norwegians) have apologized for offending Muslims. But apologies won�t be enough�- those countries have to guarantee it will never happen again. �... the harm has been done and our religion has been insulted. What guarantees do we have that this won�t happen again? An apology from the editor-in-chief isn�t enough, we want it from the demonic person who drew them.� Get this � the fundamentalist Muslim world is determined to extend religious censorship over foreign countries. And it won�t stop there. If the boycott works against little Denmark, it will be used again and again. Arabic countries have plenty of oil money for buying and boycotting products. China just got Google to censor its internet users � why wouldn�t the Muslim world do the same thing? They are bound to try. It�s worth remembering that Islamic fundamentalists have been publishing an endless stream of Nazi-style hate cartoons against Israel and the United States. But that�s OK. Killing people is good, if they are infidels and condemned by Allah. Drawing satirical cartoons of Mohammed will get you a death warrant. So for those who believe in free speech, you might consider joining the counter-boycott: Buy Danish! And tell the world if you love Havarti cheese, Lego toys, Georg Jensen designs, Tuborg and Carlsberg beer, Danish ham, and free cartooning. Remember that Denmark was the only Nazi-occuppied European country that came out of World War Two with its moral reputation intact. The Danes just didn�t put up with Jews being sent to concentration camps. They smuggled them out to neutral Sweden. Maybe Denmark will have the honor of being the first European country to stand against today�s Islamic fascism. Two sides can play at this boycott game. Buy Danish! UPDATE: Richard Baehr writes: Hamas began a new charm offensive today, by threatening Danes and Norwegians who visit Gaza. Free speech or free exercise of religion (say not be to be an Islamic fundamentalist) are not part of what free elections have brought to the Palestinian territories. Hamas means to deny free speech elsewhere, not just in their own rump state. Kind of like fatwahs against Salmon rushdie and the murdering Van Gogh. Hamas would obviously approve, having a thuggish record of its own. Hamas may be the gift that keeps on giving for Israel, as Europeans get a taste of Hamas� operating style. EDITOR�S NOTE: Readers have written wanting to see the cartoons. For obvious reasons nobody wants to publish them. But I the very first search engine I chose led to me a slow-loading site where I saw them. BREAKING NEWS UPDATE: Bill Clinton has just denounced the cartoons: Clinton described as �appalling� the 12 cartoons published in a Danish newspaper in September depicting Prophet Mohammed and causing uproar in the Muslim world. �None of us are totally free of stereotypes about people of different races, different ethnic groups, and different religions � there was this appalling example in northern Europe, in Denmark � these totally outrageous cartoons against Islam,� he said. The cartoons, including a portrayal of the prophet wearing a time-bomb-shaped turban, were reprinted in a Norwegian magazine in January, sparking uproar in the Muslim world where images of the prophet are considered blasphemous. Clinton criticised the tendency to generalise negative news of Islamic militancy. DENMARK UPDATE: The Editor-in-Chief of Jyllands Posten points out that various cartoons have been attributed to his newspaper that never appeared there, and explains the entire project: Honourable Fellow Citizens of the Muslim World Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten is a strong proponent of democracy and freedom of religion. The newspaper respects the right of any human being to practise his or her religion. Serious misunderstandings in respect of some drawings of the Prophet Mohammed have led to much anger and, lately, also boycott of Danish goods in Muslim countries. Please allow me to correct these misunderstandings. On 30 September last year, Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten published 12 different cartoonists� idea of what the Prophet Mohammed might have looked like. The initiative was taken as part of an ongoing public debate on freedom of expression, a freedom much cherished in Denmark. In our opinion, the 12 drawings were sober. They were not intended to be offensive, nor were they at variance with Danish law, but they have indisputably offended many Muslims for which we apologize. Since then a number of offensive drawings have circulated in The Middle East which have never been published in Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten and which we would never have published, had they been offered to us. We would have refused to publish them on the grounds that they violated our ethical code. Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten attaches importance to upholding the highest ethical standards based upon the respect of our fundamental values. It is so much more deplorable, therefore, that these drawings were presented as if they had anything to do with Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten. Maybe because of culturally based misunderstandings, the initiative to publish the 12 drawings has been interpreted as a campaign against Muslims in Denmark and the rest of the world. I must categorically dismiss such an interpretation. Because of the very fact that we are strong proponents of the freedom of religion and because we respect the right of any human being to practise his or her religion, offending anybody on the grounds of their religious beliefs is unthinkable to us. That this happened was, consequently, unintentional. As a result of the debate that has been going on about the drawings, we have met with representatives of Danish Muslims, and these meetings were held in a positive and constructive spirit. We have also sought in other ways to initiate a fruitful dialogue with Danish Muslims. It is the wish of Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten that various ethnic groups should live in peace and harmony with each other and that the debates and disagreements which will always exist in a dynamic society should do so in an atmosphere of mutual respect. For that reason, Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten has published many articles describing the positive aspects of integration, for example in a special supplement entitled The Contributors. It portrayed a number of Muslims who have had success in Denmark. The supplement was rewarded by the EU Commission. Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten takes exception to symbolic acts suited to demonise specific nationalities, religions and ethnic groups. Sincerely yours Carsten Juste Editor-in-Chief

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