quote:

Originally posted by Trance-MB I believe Scooter themselves consider the make Techno. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Techno_musicians Do I see MOBY, WESTBAM???

Yeah I never said Westbam and Moby doesnt make techno. Both are old guys in the techno scene. Though Moby haven't made any techno for many years now.
But I don't see Scooter or Mark Oh on that list????

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-MB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techno_music <>

yes that site just confirms what I wrote in my first post. Techno was founded in Detroit but you wrote that it was first made in Germany in 1994. But as that site says techno when it came to Europa took different paths. The more commercial one is the gabber/hardcore sound. This doesnt mean that this is techno. Trance is also an offspring off techno but people doesn't say trance is techno or vice versa. That's why people who say Scooter is techno are totally wrong.

yeah some actual old german techno would be...system 01, klangwerk, abfahrt, interactive, 3 phase, pulse, marco zaffarano, and so on.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 Your choice of arguements are the same as thousands of teenagers I here in Sweden. They believe that everything with a bassline is automaticly techno.

Det �r ju sant. When I lived in sweden, the eurodance they played on the radio always cracked me up. I remember I was in Hemk�p and they playing some cheesy song, and some guy was like "Vad schysst techno" or something like that. Bwahahahaaa too funny.

Sounds like none of you know what Techno is lol, jj, I really don't..

I try to think of it as a more progressive sound to trance.. if that makes sense.

Love the poster who mentioned that EDM techno is like calling all rock the same.. good point.. so many people say "trance? Tahts like that tehcno rave shit"..

Punk? That's like, Nirvana? It's all the same. NO. It's not. Nirvana is grunge and Led Zeppelin is classic rock.. it's not all the same..

God damnit..

lol sorry rant

Also, if any has Markus Schulz live @ Zero DB 08-28-SAT.. could they say whether the first, say, 15 mintues of that set is techno or trance?!

Just curious!

Trance, unlike techno, almost always mixes major and minor chords. This is what allows trance to feel euphoric or melancholic.

I'm also new to techno, and I'm haivng incredible trouble understanding the genre. I know what techno is but I just can't understand it. To me, there doesn't seem to be enough variation between techno songs or within the song itself. Now I'm sure you might say trance is the same way.... so I'd like to know. What makes a good techno song? What elements do you look for to keep you keep you interested, and what makes a bad techno song. I just feel that maybe if I know what to look for in the genre when listening to it I can atleast understand it and appreciate it (although I may never like it).

Most techno songs make you wait and listen closly for the variation in the songs.

However, the aspects that make trance's variation more apparent aren't even aspects of trance. A 'progressive' template is more or less takened from 70's commerical rock (ie boston.) In the mid 90s, house and trance producers started to apply this to tracks, arguably to allow the genre's appeal to expand. Ethierway, initially trance (ie from the mid 80s to early 90s) was very repetitive. And just so happens that techno never adopted the progressive template.

I can remember discussions in the 80's (im 31) about House. Just before the famous Turn Up The Bass series started. Nobody really new how to call it. A name we was used a lot was "Acid".

Is House the name which covers it all? Or is it Techno?
I don't believe there is a clear answer to it.
Who build the first airplane? Who build the first car? Same discussions.

I just took one of my oldest cd's out of the rack: Trance Nation '94
On that cd you find:
-The Age Of Love - The Age Of Love mixed by Jam & Spoon
-Interactive
-Cosmic Baby
-Technohead
-Scooter with "Cosmos" and "Vallee de Lamres" (if this isn't Trance I will need to find a different Forum)
-Marusha
-AND "LSG" AND "PARAGLIDERS" and Techno fans as you know both are from Oliver Lieb. So this Techno dude also made Trance?, or...

So maybe this cd is more Techno then Trance or maybe it is difficult to draw the line.

quote:

yeah some actual old german techno would be...system 01, klangwerk, abfahrt, interactive, 3 phase, pulse, marco zaffarano, and so on.

I think somebody called Interactive, Technohead Hardcore or so, not Techno. But maybe Techno is the name which covers it all. Hardcore fans invented Old School, just because they didn't want to accept the changes in time.

Same thing at festivals (Roskilde, Pinkpop, Werchter) Rockers didn't want to be assosiated to House and called Underworld and Chemical Brothers DANCE.
Theoretically this also could be called Techno (or House?)

That is why I believe Techno develloped fastest in the 90's and should not be denied. Sure the roots may be at a different place and time but the amount of composers has grown so fast that it had a huge impact in the scene. Love Parade in Berlin broke all records and has never been broken until now.
So the Techno of the 90 should be mentioned in the timeline. Only the people who know of the early US Techno will refer to that period but the majority (in Europe) probably would refer to the 90's (like I did).
The early hardcore fans will refer to the old school but younger hardcore fans probably will refer to a later period, a period the in which hardcore scene was at it glory (Gabber). It's the same for Techno.

So, ehhhhh what is Trance...?

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-MB I just took one of my oldest cd's out of the rack: Trance Nation '94 On that cd you find: -The Age Of Love - The Age Of Love mixed by Jam & Spoon -Interactive -Cosmic Baby -Technohead -Scooter with "Cosmos" and "Vallee de Lamres" (if this isn't Trance I will need to find a different Forum) -Marusha -AND "LSG" AND "PARAGLIDERS" and Techno fans as you know both are from Oliver Lieb. So this Techno dude also made Trance?, or... So maybe this cd is more Techno then Trance or maybe it is difficult to draw the line.

it's all trance i think. the interactive track is a DJ Hooligan remix, and DJ Hooligan made trance back then too. that mix of Koma is hard trance. the rest on that CD are mostly trance, if not all trance.

but interactive made more techno than trance. and they did make trance. but i'm thinking of their most popular hit, "who is elvis" which is what they're famous for. also, "dildo", "amok", "elevator up and down" are all techno.

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-MB I can remember discussions in the 80's (im 31) about House. Just before the famous Turn Up The Bass series started. Nobody really new how to call it. A name we was used a lot was "Acid". Is House the name which covers it all? Or is it Techno? I don't believe there is a clear answer to it. Who build the first airplane? Who build the first car? Same discussions. I just took one of my oldest cd's out of the rack: Trance Nation '94 On that cd you find: -The Age Of Love - The Age Of Love mixed by Jam & Spoon -Interactive -Cosmic Baby -Technohead -Scooter with "Cosmos" and "Vallee de Lamres" (if this isn't Trance I will need to find a different Forum) -Marusha -AND "LSG" AND "PARAGLIDERS" and Techno fans as you know both are from Oliver Lieb. So this Techno dude also made Trance?, or... So maybe this cd is more Techno then Trance or maybe it is difficult to draw the line.

Eh I don't really understand what you mean but Oliver Lieb produce both trance, techno, ambient and other stuff. And he is more famous for his trance productions than his techno stuff.

And if you don't think techno have its roots in Detroit then that is your own personal opinion. The majority of the techno people will argue against you.

man. everyone knows juan atkins invented techno.

quote:

Originally posted by Staedtler man. everyone knows juan atkins invented techno.

well this guy thinks Scooter did so... you do the math?

The scary thing is, when I was still an EDM neonate, I used the same arguments as this guy, and thought the same things. (amongst others the "scooter's website says techno, so it is techno").

Luckily I know better now. It comes with time.

EDIT: Rebel9 would know about this... I used to argument that Scooter = techno on sites like Lunarstorm. Arrrhhh... n00bness... embarrassing... memories...

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Cinos The scary thing is, when I was still an EDM neonate, I used the same arguments as this guy, and thought the same things. (amongst others the "scooter's website says techno, so it is techno"). Luckily I know better now. It comes with time. EDIT: Rebel9 would know about this... I used to argument that Scooter = techno on sites like Lunarstorm. Arrrhhh... n00bness... embarrassing... memories...

oh you should hang around on the techno forum there. 90% of all threads are made by kids who asks for new techno tunes by Scooter

quote:

Originally posted by SteveMKIIDub I try to think of it as a more progressive sound to trance.. if that makes sense.

No.

quote:

Originally posted by SteveMKIIDub Also, if any has Markus Schulz live @ Zero DB 08-28-SAT.. could they say whether the first, say, 15 mintues of that set is techno or trance?!

Most probably techno, judging by the definitions in this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by basd No. Most probably techno, judging by the definitions in this thread.

Kinda getting hard to tell what the hell is what..

you can forgive the misunderstanding though (@ rebel9).

alot of people still use techno as a catch all term for all music with a synthesizers and a bass drum in it.

not that its right because its not, but it happens so much i just dont care to respond to it anymore.

quote:

So maybe this cd is more Techno then Trance or maybe it is difficult to draw the line.

i sometimes dislike genre and categorisation of certain artists into pigeon holes. often it is the case that some artists create a wide variety of music that wont fit into a single catch all header. im thinking of something like kaya project, whose output swings from psytrance to new age, to world music to ambient to breakbeat. its not accurate to say kaya project is ambient because it isnt just ambient. and its misleading to think that 1 word can sum up everything that these songs are trying to say.

but yea - that cd is nearly all trance or trance derivative. except for scooter - most of their stuff is happy hardcore. that said, they sometimes have serious moments (as in 'cosmos' and 'rhapsody in e'). they just dont happen very often.

about the difference. easiest way is to just listen to some techno and then some trance. they are completely different but i guess derive from similar musical origins.

12 years ago, the roland tb-303 was all over trance but it was used mainly for arpeggiated melody and so forth. techno has always been about the the 303 mono synth and the roland tr 808 and 909 drum machines.

if you ever get lucky enough to program one of these you will notice that you dont program them like musical instruments - they dont have keyboards. instead they have an integrated 16 step sequencer and you program a series of notes along a single octave and transpose notes up and down.

this reflects in the way that techno is written - its typically minimal, musically it isnt really concerned with consonance. and it consists of alot of repeated loops of 16 steps and variations of loops in 16 steps.

trance also has this looping repetition to some extent but its moved very far away from that now and these days its lost alot of what makes trance, fundamentally trance - the repetition. now it seems fixated with harmony and huge wanky breakdowns. early trance shows more of a concern with rhythm and melody (it derives this i think from indian ethnic music, which often consists a drone sitar, lead sitar and percussion). whereas techno is more concerned with just rhythm and sound.

its probably best to hear the difference yourself though - its immediately evident and theres no way you can mistake techno for trance when you know what to look out for.

quote:

Originally posted by 808303909 It's neophyte, n00b.

ne�o�nate
n.

A newborn infant, especially one less than four weeks old.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Cinos ne�o�nate n. A newborn infant, especially one less than four weeks old.

I've never heard that term used in such a context. 'Neophyte' is used for someone who is new to something, someone newly converted.

quote:

Originally posted by aerial I've never heard that term used in such a context. 'Neophyte' is used for someone who is new to something, someone newly converted.

It's just a less mundane way to say it. I like using divergent ideograms every now and then.