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-- Why France is Burning: Real Interviews with the youths
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Originally posted by Subey Doesn't a "successful" Islamic terrorist make life more difficult for all the law abiding muslims than it does for the rest of us? Do Islamic "insurgents" in Iraq make life more difficult for the people of Iraq or for american soldiers? Jyhad isn't a war fought by muslims agains the west. Jyhad is a war fought by muslims against themselves. Just so happens that attacking the west is the most efficient way of doing it...

What I don't understand is why "all the law abiding muslims" aren't more vocal about their position regarding extremism. In predominantly Christian and Jewish societies you have very heated debates between extremists/fundamentalists (e.g. the evolution debate, the gay-marriage one, the pull out of Gaza, etc.), but we very rarely hear of similar schisms among muslims. My personal experience is that my muslim friends, who are not extremists, tend to get defensive of the extremists when I talk to them about current events, but I have yet to have any of my friends defend Bush and his policies. It seems kinda unbalanced.
About a month ago I heard a talk by the head of the danish institute on human rights and equality, and he concluded at some point that the problem today was to get attention away from the "other faiths/cultures vs. my faith/culture" paradigm, and focus on the "fundamentalist vs. slackers" paradigm. I agree with that view point.

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Originally posted by trancaholic I heard a talk by the head of the danish institute on human rights and equality, and he concluded at some point that the problem today was to get attention away from the "other faiths/cultures vs. my faith/culture" paradigm, and focus on the "fundamentalist vs. slackers" paradigm. I agree with that view point.

Exactly. Islamic terrorism isn't about Muslims attacking the West, its about providing a catalyst for Muslims to attack themselves (i.e. Moderate vs Fundamentalists). It just hasn't reached critical mass yet.

Since you mention the danes i'd be remiss if I didn't mention that my favourite novel was written by Cees Nooteboom (The Following Story)

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Originally posted by Subey Since you mention the danes i'd be remiss if I didn't mention that my favourite novel was written by Cees Nootboom

Oh man, I've got no clue as to who you're talking about?

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Originally posted by trancaholic What I don't understand is why "all the law abiding muslims" aren't more vocal about their position regarding extremism.

Many of them are. It's rarely covered in the media though. But most of them are ALSO aware of Western prejudice against Muslims and how they're constantly portrayed as subhuman savages in all sorts of mediums (press/entertainment etc). Just look at what "your democraticaly elected" leaders have been doing to the Middle East for decades (the current war, cases of torture, sexual asube, arrests without any proof and then people being released without charge after being tortured the shit out of). But I don't really thing there is any point in trying to explain it to you since you're likely to disregard what I or anyone else will tell you as BS or an "unsubtantiabted claim" (since that basically how you've responded to this information when I brought it up earlier). Most Westerners are bascially obvlivious to the horrible shit their Goverments have been doing to "those" countries/people for decades (and the press and Goverments choose to keep the people in the dark about it). And ofcrouse you're gonna say something like, that's not true/is an exagerration or we have a free press or whatever.

Why don't you tell me something instead, why is it, that when I start a thread about torture, unreasonable arrest plus torture, war crimes, or anything regarding the plight of Muslims and Arabs, virtually no one responds? Is it becuase people agree with it on or support it? No, it's cuz they don't know what to say.

2 facts you're going to have to face if you want to understand the answer your question:

1. There is an anti-Muslim/Arab bias in the press.
2. Muslims/Arab nations have been opressed (many times very violently) by the main Western powers for decades now for their own greedy self-interests.

EDIT: I'm sick of saying the same thing over and over agian without anyone paying attention to it or simply saying/thinking that it's BS.

Last week, 3 cars were burned in a range of 100 meters from home.
According to CNN and Fox News, France need the help of the army...

rofl, i must admit i'm fed up with these youngs who set up everything on fire, but i'm still alive and i don't want any fucking humvee in my street!!!

things are calming down, let's see what will happen in the next days

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Many of them are. It's rarely covered in the media though. But most of them are ALSO aware of Western prejudice against Muslims and how they're constantly portrayed as subhuman savages in all sorts of mediums (press/entertainment etc). Just look at what "your democraticaly elected" leaders have been doing to the Middle East for decades (the current war, cases of torture, sexual asube, arrests without any proof and then people being released without charge after being tortured the shit out of). But I don't really thing there is any point in trying to explain it to you since you're likely to disregard what I or anyone else will tell you as BS or an "unsubtantiabted claim" (since that basically how you've responded to this information when I brought it up earlier). Most Westerners are bascially obvlivious to the horrible shit their Goverments have been doing to "those" countries/people for decades (and the press and Goverments choose to keep the people in the dark about it). And ofcrouse you're gonna say something like, that's not true/is an exagerration or we have a free press or whatever. Why don't you tell me something instead, why is it, that when I start a thread about torture, unreasonable arrest plus torture, war crimes, or anything regarding the plight of Muslims and Arabs, virtually no one responds? Is it becuase people agree with it on or support it? No, it's cuz they don't know what to say. 2 facts you're going to have to face if you want to understand the answer your question: 1. There is an anti-Muslim/Arab bias in the press. 2. Muslims/Arab nations have been opressed (many times very violently) by the main Western powers for decades now for their own greedy self-interests. EDIT: I'm sick of saying the same thing over and over agian without anyone paying attention to it or simply saying/thinking that it's BS.

Actually I don't really agree with you here. There might be a lot of bad stuff about Muslims in the media, but that's because there are a few Muslims who do horrible acts. The media has never cared to report the good things, so I don't see why this is any different than any other event. For example, you often hear that *all Muslims aren't like that* in the media, but I never heard that *all americans aren't like that* when we read about all the stupid things your government does, this despite the large anti-American movement that actually exists. To me the "anti muslim" bias in the media is simply the wrong of how media works, not anything particular against Muslims.

That said I don't think it is good in any way at all, but it's just the way it is. And to fight this Muslims must speak up much lauder against this, show that they are too normal peaceful ppl who don't support this kinds of things at all. A much larger lobby group that knows how to work westerners is needed for sure.

As for why few replies to your threads about torture, first of all, people do reply. Second of all, at least not from my side, there is not a whole lot to argue with. Sometimes I would just reply with some boring one liner about how terrible it is, sometimes I would just subscribe to the thread to see whats being said in it if anything. Of course there are probably a few who don't respond for the reasons you outlined, BUT those are in a minority, at least in this forum.

^^^ +1 on all three parts.

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Originally posted by severnayaprods Last week, 3 cars were burned in a range of 100 meters from home. According to CNN and Fox News, France need the help of the army... rofl, i must admit i'm fed up with these youngs who set up everything on fire, but i'm still alive and i don't want any fucking humvee in my street!!! things are calming down, let's see what will happen in the next days

Well, I'd certainly prefer having a humvee patroling around than having my car burned. Besides, tanks and humvees look cool.

Re: Re: Re: Why France is Burning: Real Interviews with the youths

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Originally posted by occrider Yea I'm wondering that too. I pretty much heard the same arguments from kids they interviewed on NPR. The only difference is that the kids NPR interviewed were much more articulate and rational.

corn fed intelligence

Keep in mind that a lot of these rioters are just punks. They see stuff burning, so they get in the act.

To me, a lot of these guys are expecting a free ride through life and just pissed that they aren't getting it. Rebellious youths. Need a swift kick in the head.

Yeah, life sucks. Some people are not going to give you a fair chance. Live with it. Try a bit harder. You might go somewhere.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why France is Burning: Real Interviews with the youths

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Originally posted by wizniz corn fed intelligence

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