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-- Diffrent between Trance, techno and dance??
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quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 that is not the Space Brothers Chakra. This is Chakra from Israel.

hmm. it even sounded similar! (a little)

and here I was wondering how come I had never come across that tune before..

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Originally posted by stevieboy32808 Well...yeah! Can you give me some good songs that spew the essence of techno. Classics, current techno, the whole nine yards. Whatever you can think of. Conjure me up a small but powerful list please....

What does that gotta do with this? You just said that Cave doesn't do techno which is pretty funny because he is one of the fastest rising stars of the european techno heaven.

www.cave.no

I believe Ambient can be close to the earlier Techno.
But then again some Ambient is more like Trance without the beats.
It's problably because of the development of the synthesizers. They can produce sounds which weren't available at the beginning of Techno.
That's why I think Duo Safri is a good example that Trance is a sub-style of Techno, which in this example is close to the Detroit Techno without the melody and synths.

In my view examples of Techno almost can be everything.
The name sub-genre or sub-style proves to me that it will remain difficult to give examples of Techno without being able to also place it in a sub-style.

That is why it is difficult to place early work of The Prodigy in a sub-style. True, they had a style (sound) of there own, but since I see Techno as the mother of father of many sub-styles it would be Techno, just sounded different from everything made before.
It's alway difficult to place a experimental group in a box.

Trance is a sub-style of Techno, so maybe it's better to ask for the difference between Detroit-Techno and Trance (or differences between other sub-styles like Rave, Hardcore, Happy Hardcore, Ambient etc.)

Since many Techno fans at this forum are fans of the Detroit Techno sound, I believe it is good to keep this in mind when someone mentions Techno.

Examples of Techno in time: 10 Years Of Techno:
http://www.discogs.com/release/121988

Speedy J - Pullover

Speedy J, like the Prodigy had a sound of his own, but still developed out of Techno. Maybe it's only experimental Techno. Not all sounds should become a sub-style.

The Prodigy is Big Beat. Speedy-J isn't Detroit Techno, and he used to make "IDM", made some trance, and ambient, and Techno.

quote:

BIG BEAT The term "Big Beat" started being used during the 90's to name the style of artists such as THE CHEMICAL BROTHERS and PROPELLERHEADS, who where mixing savage Rock riffs and beats with Techno sequences and Breakbeat loops. The combination is a powerful and fury "Rock" version of Techno. Other representative Big Beat artists are FATBOY SLIM, OMAR SANTANA, LUKE SLATER, and THE PRODIGY.

http://www.intuitivemusic.com/tguidebigbeat.html

"The combination is a powerful and fury "Rock" version of Techno."

Like I said, all sub-style of Techno.
Big Beat is a small one.
But also The Prodigy combined other sub-styles of Techno. The beat was like their signature.

I believe there are to many sub-styles.

hmm i like that techno clip

i dont think that cheese song could be "dance"
dance is just all music that is electronic
MTV calls it stuff like missy elliot and madonna, pop with synths

quote:

Originally posted by mndeg hmm i like that techno clip i dont think that cheese song could be "dance" dance is just all music that is electronic MTV calls it stuff like missy elliot and madonna, pop with synths

no euro dance is actually a genre of its own.

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-MB I believe Ambient can be close to the earlier Techno. But then again some Ambient is more like Trance without the beats. It's problably because of the development of the synthesizers. They can produce sounds which weren't available at the beginning of Techno. That's why I think Duo Safri is a good example that Trance is a sub-style of Techno, which in this example is close to the Detroit Techno without the melody and synths. In my view examples of Techno almost can be everything. The name sub-genre or sub-style proves to me that it will remain difficult to give examples of Techno without being able to also place it in a sub-style. That is why it is difficult to place early work of The Prodigy in a sub-style. True, they had a style (sound) of there own, but since I see Techno as the mother of father of many sub-styles it would be Techno, just sounded different from everything made before. It's alway difficult to place a experimental group in a box. Trance is a sub-style of Techno, so maybe it's better to ask for the difference between Detroit-Techno and Trance (or differences between other sub-styles like Rave, Hardcore, Happy Hardcore, Ambient etc.) Since many Techno fans at this forum are fans of the Detroit Techno sound, I believe it is good to keep this in mind when someone mentions Techno. Examples of Techno in time: 10 Years Of Techno: http://www.discogs.com/release/121988 Speedy J - Pullover Speedy J, like the Prodigy had a sound of his own, but still developed out of Techno. Maybe it's only experimental Techno. Not all sounds should become a sub-style.

Yeah...and you people say that *I* give others the wrong idea about electronic music.

people, if you have no idea what you're talking about, you'd better just say nothing at all really

im starting to think that alot of people in this forum,, you know,, really get *orf* on putting art into pigeon holes.

the discussion so far must have half of you getting hard and wet by this point. 'look over there! a newbie has the wrong idea about techno! time to get my peener out and wave it in his face until he shuts up! YEA! I SURE SHOWED HIM.'

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Originally posted by RebeL9 What does that gotta do with this? You just said that Cave doesn't do techno which is pretty funny because he is one of the fastest rising stars of the european techno heaven. www.cave.no

I just listened to that whole set and it screams house. I mean, sure it's actually techno, but there are elements in that set that are extremely familiar to house. This similarity I'm talking about is the fun, feel-good melodies which is usually centered on heavy bass and banging drums. The same elements which make house such a nice music to listen to. And when I said that your techno sample sounded like house I did NOT mean this:

house
house2
house3

I meant something along these lines:

sample
sample2
sample3
sample4
sample5

I know it's a pitiful explanation, but the second set of samples show what I mean by feel good melodies and my comparison to techno. Of course, there's still a lot to be learned on my part.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 i suppose yes. since trance is an offspring of techno its natural that without all the synths and effects it would become techno. but you can't just take a random trance tune and remove the melodies and make it into a techno tune. techno is made in a completely different way than trance. other things to keep in mind.

Totally agree there. Trance uses fairly fixed melody structures and a very predictable flow and structure a lot of the time. Techno is very loop based and more akin to progressive in terms of structure and flow. Lots of subtle changes over a long period of time compared to trance.

Theres also a different though process behind techno too in terms of use on the decks. Generally the tracks are made to be played on top of one another or at the very least mixed into each other a lot more than trance which typically is designed to be played back to back with minimal layering by the DJ. The sounds used are very different also. I would say in general trance is a cleaner, more polished sound compared to techno which favours a rougher more abstract take on sound production.

quote:

I just listened to that whole set and it screams house. I mean, sure it's actually techno, but there are elements in that set that are extremely familiar to house.

"Big Fun" and "Good Live" (first sample "house") of Inner City (Kevin Saunderson) are considered to be among the first World Wide Techno hits.

Give It Up - The Good Men (first sample "sample") was released serveral times in the 90's and with huge succes.


But I found a site which explains it all (very clearly):

http://www.eurodancehits.com/dict.html

quote:

Throught all the phases and trends and ups and downs that TECHNO has endured, one man maintained his position as an instigator and innovator and is now consider the godfather of the TECHNO movement - Talla 2XLC. born and Raised in Frankfurt, Germany, he founded the first club exclusively devoted to TECHNO, conceived Frontpage Magazine, and launched, with Zoth Ommog SUCK ME PLASMA, the first TECHNO-HOUSE label. He has lived by the TECHNO motto" "Forcing The Future", like no other DJ before or since. Never ego-driven or spotlight-hungry he became a quet but enormously influential mastermind behind every aspect of TECHNO's eveolution. Although the seeds of TECHNO were planted in Frankfurt's Rhein-Main district, it soon spread internationally through 80's and 90's. Now, Tall 2XLC is still in top form and widely regarded as the creative genius behind TECHNO-HOUSE current popularity. Attributes: Hard synth-keyboard riffs, pounding Belgian style bass, often combining male rap and female vocals and always delivering the most intense, frenetic eneregy possible. 130 to 150 BPM. Examples: L.A. Style, Moby, Fierce Ruling Diva, Tyrell Corp., Robotico Rejecto, Klangwerk, Quadrophonia, many of the releases on Radikal on Bounce labels, Suck Me Plasma releases and everything from Rotterdam.

Please read the entire site...

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-MB "Big Fun" and "Good Live" (first sample "house") of Inner City (Kevin Saunderson) are considered to be among the first World Wide Techno hits.

Those tracks are tech-house, if not house. Of course, because Kevin was trying to emulate Chicago producers with those tracks.

quote:

But I found a site which explains it all (very clearly): http://www.eurodancehits.com/dict.html Please read the entire site...

Too bad it explains it wrong. The club was called "technoclub", however, they played a lot of trance too. And talla2xlc wasn't the godfather of the techno movement in germany/europe, Sven Vath was, when he founded his label and Das Omen.

Interestingly, Suck Me Plasma released what many consider to be the first bona-fide trance track: We Came In Peace by Dance 2 Trance.

quote:

Originally posted by stevieboy32808 I just listened to that whole set and it screams house. I mean, sure it's actually techno, but there are elements in that set that are extremely familiar to house. This similarity I'm talking about is the fun, feel-good melodies which is usually centered on heavy bass and banging drums. The same elements which make house such a nice music to listen to. And when I said that your techno sample sounded like house I did NOT mean this: house house2 house3 I meant something along these lines: sample sample2 sample3 sample4 sample5 I know it's a pitiful explanation, but the second set of samples show what I mean by feel good melodies and my comparison to techno. Of course, there's still a lot to be learned on my part.

sorry but none of your samples sound anything like the Cave track. of course there are tribal elements in various styles. there is tribal trance, tribal house, tribal techno. but its not the "tribal" what makes it techno.

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