GM cuts 3900 jobs and closes 2 Ontario plants

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-- GM cuts 3900 jobs and closes 2 Ontario plants
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Posted by Moral Hazard on Nov-21-2005 20:44:

quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
im sure the massive increase in business taxes that mcsquinty has implemented hasnt helped either. Not to mention the fact that the federal government withheld it's promised tax cuts to businesses promised last year in order to get into bed with the NDP to prop the government up over the summer.

Those things haven't helped but they are insignificant given the gravety of GMs pension burdons, present labour cost, and static/declining market position. This is the CAW/UAW's doing. And GMs to a degree, if they would have had the back bone to resist the union years ago this wouldn't be happening now. When you let labour dictate the terms of production you will inevitably end up with a situation like this.... why? Because labour is interested in their immediate needs, they pay no mind to succession.

Posted by Jayx1 on Nov-21-2005 20:49:

quote:
Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Those things haven't helped but they are insignificant given the gravety of GMs pension burdons, present labour cost, and static/declining market position. This is the CAW/UAW's doing. And GMs to a degree, if they would have had the back bone to resist the union years ago this wouldn't be happening now. When you let labour dictate the terms of production you will inevitably end up with a situation like this.... why? Because labour is interested in their immediate needs, they pay no mind to succession.

You should read Linda Leatherdale's column about how government neglect has led to 45,000 lost jobs in ontario in the last year.

Posted by CanadaBoyTRANCE on Nov-21-2005 22:37:

gm sucks anways..its all about ford for me..or vw...

Posted by Orko on Nov-22-2005 01:31:

quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
im sure the massive increase in business taxes that mcsquinty has implemented hasnt helped either. Not to mention the fact that the federal government withheld it's promised tax cuts to businesses promised last year in order to get into bed with the NDP to prop the government up over the summer.

Wouldn't these conditions have the same negative effects for all the car companies?

This is not about tax cuts. If GM is relying on tax cuts to help them sustain a profitbale business, then they are in trouble anyways.

The responsible factors are:
- declining sales, the reason they had the employee pricing plan
- aging work force, which is now claiming more benefits and pensions
- overpriced labour, in comparison to labour available in Mexico

Posted by DigiNut on Nov-22-2005 01:35:

quote:
Originally posted by Moral Hazard
the CAW strikes again! Sorry to say it folks but if not for the outragous wages autoworkers are paid these lay-offs would not be necessary. Let's all thank the unions for raping industry and making it unprofitable to maintain plants here.

quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
im sure the massive increase in business taxes that mcsquinty has implemented hasnt helped either. Not to mention the fact that the federal government withheld it's promised tax cuts to businesses promised last year in order to get into bed with the NDP to prop the government up over the summer.

Yes.

Posted by DigiNut on Nov-22-2005 01:40:

quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
You should read Linda Leatherdale's column about how government neglect has led to 45,000 lost jobs in ontario in the last year.

I believe you mean this one:

http://money.canoe.ca/Columnists/Le...316477-sun.html

She also points out the ridiculous insurance premiums and gas prices, which for the naive reader are both largely because of the taxes on that industry.

Posted by Orko on Nov-22-2005 04:19:

Not just a Canadian problem:

If you think this is purely down to Canadian politics/economics, you have some more thinking to do:

Car giant GM to cut 30,000 staff(click)

Posted by bass drive on Nov-22-2005 04:38:

quote:
Originally posted by rabbitjoker
Please list the G8 public-ownership auto manufacturers.

I have no idea about this subject

VERTiG0
they manufacture ford focus in Germany also. (I don't live in canada anymore, if that's what's confusing you)

Posted by Stingray on Nov-22-2005 06:10:

Aye, its a shame whats happening

I'm the proud owner of 2 GM cars. ('78 Trans Am and '96 Buick Roadmaster)
The Trans Am is the most reliable car I've driven. Less problems then my friends who own brand new Hondas and VWs (not to mention my bro's Ford)

The Buick scored 5 out of 5 stars for reliability in every report I've read. (one reason I bought it) GM can do things right when they actually try. Look at the Corvette! It's obviously no Ferrari, but at that price you wouldnt expect the same fit and finish.

Domestics have improved alot over the past couple years, but they still have a long way to go if they are gonna make it in the long run. On the other hand all the imports should stop building cars in the US and Mexico. Move production back to Japan. They are known for reliability, so they should keep it that way. People will pay the extra money for the better built car.

Posted by VERTiG0 on Nov-22-2005 06:16:

Ah, gotcha bass drive. FYI, your European Focus is a completely different car than the one we get here.

Also HAHAHAH at Ferraris having a good fit and finish. Their quality is actually piss poor. I'd take a C6 Corvette Z06 over an F430 anyday, methinks.

Posted by Cosmic Fur on Nov-22-2005 06:16:

I will die a happy man if I get to witness both GM and Ford go completely under.

Posted by VERTiG0 on Nov-22-2005 06:17:

quote:
Originally posted by Cosmic Fur
I will die a happy man if I get to witness both GM and Ford go completely under.

It'll never happen. Ever. EVER. Why the fuck would you want that anyway? Less competition is bad. BAD. Also, the world is not worth living in without Corvettes.

Posted by Fir3start3r on Nov-22-2005 06:18:

quote:
Originally posted by TheVrk
It mostly applies to economy cars imo.
I think it boils down to longevity.

I'm by no stretch of ANY imagination a car buff, but its pretty obvious that the avg N.American economy car is hurting by 200 000 kms.
Whereas as a German or Japanese economy car EASLIY clears 300 000 or more...

That's not necessarily true either.
I have a '97 Grand AM with over 350,000km that is working just fine...

Posted by Stingray on Nov-22-2005 06:19:

Posted by Stingray on Nov-22-2005 06:21:

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
That's not necessarily true either.
I have a '97 Grand AM with over 350,000km that is working just fine...

And I know Hondas dieing at 150,000.

ANY car has to be taken care of. And if you take care of it, then it will last! Domestic or import.

Posted by VERTiG0 on Nov-22-2005 06:25:

quote:
Originally posted by Stingray
I love 'Vettes

Me too.

Oh you lustful Blue Devil you ;-*

Posted by Cosmic Fur on Nov-22-2005 06:29:

quote:
Originally posted by VERTiG0
It'll never happen. Ever. EVER. Why the fuck would you want that anyway? Less competition is bad. BAD. Also, the world is not worth living in without Corvettes.

You're probably right. I don't know about GM, but Ford will just fall back onto full-scale truck production and just keep living off of that. at least in NA. Plus it'll take forever for such giants to come down. GM is what, 300 bill in debt? And Ford is losing a bill every quarter. That's gonna catch up sooner or later.

And less competition? How many car brands does GM own? If anything, it'll give those brands a chance at being independent again because GM will sell em off one by one in its glorious downfall. Although I doubt the damage done to Jaguar can ever be repaired (yes, I know it's owned by Ford); ******s destroyed such an historic car make.

As far as Corvettes, new cars will come out to replace em. There are lots of automakers gunning for the cheap sportscar segment.

Posted by Stingray on Nov-22-2005 06:35:

quote:
Originally posted by VERTiG0
Me too.

Oh you lustful Blue Devil you ;-*

Aye! I was thinking more along these lines though...and what beautiful lines they are...

BTW Cosmic Fur, $80000 for a ZO6 is hardly 'cheap'

There's no point in bickering back and forth about this. Time will tell. Hell Chrysler was on the brink of bankruptcy in the late 80s. You never know what can happen.

Posted by Cosmic Fur on Nov-22-2005 06:39:

quote:
Originally posted by Stingray
Time will tell.

Agreed. i'll warm up the popcorn and enjoy the show.

Posted by Stingray on Nov-22-2005 06:41:

quote:
Originally posted by Cosmic Fur
Agreed. i'll warm up the popcorn and enjoy the show.

I'll roll a fattie, Cale you bring a 12 of Steam Whistle.

Posted by VERTiG0 on Nov-22-2005 06:48:

quote:
Originally posted by Stingray
Aye! I was thinking more along these lines though...and what beautiful lines they are...

My mom owned a '76 Stingray splitback with the t-roof. My parents sold it when I was born, and I hate myself for it.

Okay so I don't hate myself at all, I just wish they had kept the damn car

Posted by Stingray on Nov-22-2005 06:53:

Yeah my parents used to be cool too...

Before I was born they had a 70something Cutlass with a 305 and t-tops.

Posted by Cosmic Fur on Nov-22-2005 06:57:

my parents are cooler than yours.

Posted by Stingray on Nov-22-2005 06:59:

quote:
Originally posted by Cosmic Fur
my parents are cooler than yours.

No argument there

Posted by TheVrk on Nov-22-2005 11:02:

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
That's not necessarily true either.
I have a '97 Grand AM with over 350,000km that is working just fine...

Wow... I gotta say tho that that's the first time i've heard
of such a story. I seriously doubt that's the norm

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