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-- 'Cheese'
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| Originally posted by Rockabye Xenatr did u ever attend an event or club where real trance was played by good djs? |
I think your music taste will change if you ever attend a good trance party...
Cheese is often associated with pop music or commercialism, since its essentially cliche music that is designed to appeal to the listener straight away. Subjective opinions aside, people that are into more elite/underground circles have a disdain for such commercialism because it threatens to take away from their eliteness and puts them with the rest of the top 40 massive.
If they actually stopped to think logically about it, they would realise that the more people that listen to 'cheese' the less exposed their underground music is. There is also the re-assuring feeling of bagging something as 'cheese', thus proving to everyone how elite and underground they are. Unfortunately with trance, its all getting a bit cheesy... or atleast more commercial these days so you'll probably encounter a lot of that attitude on these forums, especially from old timers.
Essentially people that have major hangups about cheese are just trying to protect their imaginary indenity that they have made for themselves by associating themselves with the more underground forms of music. If they just liked the music they liked and worried less about others tastes, then they wouldnt really give a toss either way.
good post
can't say it often enough: cheese music in germanys proclaims to be trance music and therefore the trance scene in germany died...
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| Originally posted by Rockabye can't say it often enough: cheese music in germanys proclaims to be trance music and therefore the trance scene in germany died... |
Ignorance is bliss
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| Originally posted by Axolotyl Cheese is often associated with pop music or commercialism, since its essentially cliche music that is designed to appeal to the listener straight away. Subjective opinions aside, people that are into more elite/underground circles have a disdain for such commercialism because it threatens to take away from their eliteness and puts them with the rest of the top 40 massive. If they actually stopped to think logically about it, they would realise that the more people that listen to 'cheese' the less exposed their underground music is. There is also the re-assuring feeling of bagging something as 'cheese', thus proving to everyone how elite and underground they are. Unfortunately with trance, its all getting a bit cheesy... or atleast more commercial these days so you'll probably encounter a lot of that attitude on these forums, especially from old timers. Essentially people that have major hangups about cheese are just trying to protect their imaginary indenity that they have made for themselves by associating themselves with the more underground forms of music. If they just liked the music they liked and worried less about others tastes, then they wouldnt really give a toss either way. |
I've said this before, but I'll repeat it here.
Cheese is defined as music that is fake, canned, and forced. It is trying to be something it's not. It is pretending it is deep and sophisticated, emotional stuff, but in truth it is just going through the motions, playing out some simple, tired cliche. In short, cheese music lies to you. It tries to appeal to your emotions, tug your heartstrings, and get you to feel a certain way toward it. But you feel nothing at all. Why?
Because your intelligence is being insulted. You hate being deceived. You hate being controlled and manipulated. You hate being compartmentalized into a little emotional sponge for this cheese music to fill you with tired formulas. It sounds way too affected to have any meaningful impact on you. Or anyone, for that matter.
Now, because of that....cheese is going to be interpreted differently by people. Some will think DJ Sammy is genius, forward-thinking stuff. I personally see just about 95% of all eurotrance made after 1998 to be unlistenable, cheesy shite. Someone new to trance is going to think the exact opposite.
But if there's one thing I've noticed, it's that the longer people are exposed to certain styles of music, the closer together their interpretations of its cheesy epithets get. So never ask a newb what is cheese. They haven't the wealth of experience to identify it yet. Everything sounds so novel to them. Give him a few years...
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| Originally posted by Ishkur I've said this before, but I'll repeat it here. Cheese is defined as music that is fake, canned, and forced. It is trying to be something it's not. It is pretending it is deep and sophisticated, emotional stuff, but in truth it is just going through the motions, playing out some simple, tired cliche. In short, cheese music lies to you. It tries to appeal to your emotions, tug your heartstrings, and get you to feel a certain way toward it. But you feel nothing at all. Why? Because your intelligence is being insulted. You hate being deceived. You hate being controlled and manipulated. You hate being compartmentalized into a little emotional sponge for this cheese music to fill you with tired formulas. It sounds way too affected to have any meaningful impact on you. Or anyone, for that matter. Now, because of that....cheese is going to be interpreted differently by people. Some will think DJ Sammy is genius, forward-thinking stuff. I personally see just about 95% of all eurotrance made after 1998 to be unlistenable, cheesy shite. Someone new to trance is going to think the exact opposite. But if there's one thing I've noticed, it's that the longer people are exposed to certain styles of music, the closer together their interpretations of its cheesy epithets get. So never ask a newb what is cheese. They haven't the wealth of experience to identify it yet. Everything sounds so novel to them. Give him a few years... |
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| Originally posted by feidias Hey what is really commercial though? |
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| Originally posted by Ishkur Commercial is that which attempts to appeal to the most possible number of people. Something that strives for universality. Of course, in order to achieve this aim, the music must thus be very safe, very bland, and very inoffensive. So it's not a thing, per se. It is a process. A process of political correctness, in a way. The process of commercialization is the process of watering down and smoothing something out for mass digestion. Any genre of music can become commercial if it�s given the shiny, plastic, polished sheen of simple tinker toys (or any mass-produced consumer good). In fact, over the past fifty years, everything, from rap, to rock, to punk, to R&B, to jazz, to techno has become commercial music at one time or another. The purpose of commercial music is not to evoke emotion or have any lasting appeal. It is to move units; sell the most music to the most possible numbers of people very quickly. It is essentially fast food; something people do not value the inherent quality of but seek instantaneous and short-term sustenance. It is not elitist to hate this process. For those of us who enjoy care, quality, professionalism, and earnest, heartfelt passion, with genuine emotion injected into our music, commercial music is blasphemy. People don't hate it because it's bad--quite the contrary, commercial music is expertly produced. No. People hate it because it's simply boring. It has to be, in order to be likable by everyone. |
very good post agreed with every word
I am choking with laughter at some of the "comments" here.
How can you say that C7 or Ziggy X or Pulsedriver are "commercial," when most of these artists are only known in the Northern part of Germany and Eastern Europe, while Anjunabeats and Tiesto are 1000x MORE commercial, with bestselling albums, a global audience of millions (esp. in the USA), "concert" DVDs, Coca-Cola commercials, Olympics contracts, etc.?????
Most people have never even heard of someone like East Clubbers.
Ishkur you couldnt be more wrong. it doesnt pretend to be anything it isnt. why would it try to pretend to be sofistictated, when even to the untrained ear, it isnt... it is there for instant pleasure, and getting the heart racing with a great bass
tracks like norman bass - how do you like bass are the work of genius' because they get the desired effect
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| Originally posted by HardTranceProd Most people have never even heard of someone like East Clubbers. |
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| Originally posted by Ishkur Of course, in order to achieve this aim, the music must thus be very safe, very bland, and very inoffensive. So it's not a thing, per se. It is a process. A process of political correctness, in a way. |
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| Originally posted by HardTranceProd I am choking with laughter at some of the "comments" here. How can you say that C7 or Ziggy X or Pulsedriver are "commercial," when most of these artists are only known in the Northern part of Germany and Eastern Europe, while Anjunabeats and Tiesto are 1000x MORE commercial, with bestselling albums, a global audience of millions (esp. in the USA), "concert" DVDs, Coca-Cola commercials, Olympics contracts, etc.????? Most people have never even heard of someone like East Clubbers. |
It's not just about how many records are sold but also about fashion and culture.
As far as I'm concerned someone like Paul van Dyk is the definition of "commercial" because he is covered and interviewed and talked about everywhere, like Britney Spears. He is a pop icon.
Whereas that Swedish Eurodance group that nobody knows about that you mentioned, I would consider "Underground." They might turn up on some underground compilations once or twice.
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| Originally posted by HardTranceProd Whereas that Swedish Eurodance group that nobody knows about that you mentioned, I would consider "Underground." They might turn up on some underground compilations once or twice. |
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| Originally posted by Ishkur Commercial is that which attempts to appeal to the most possible number of people. Something that strives for universality. Of course, in order to achieve this aim, the music must thus be very safe, very bland, and very inoffensive. So it's not a thing, per se. It is a process. A process of political correctness, in a way. The process of commercialization is the process of watering down and smoothing something out for mass digestion. Any genre of music can become commercial if it�s given the shiny, plastic, polished sheen of simple tinker toys (or any mass-produced consumer good). In fact, over the past fifty years, everything, from rap, to rock, to punk, to R&B, to jazz, to techno has become commercial music at one time or another. The purpose of commercial music is not to evoke emotion or have any lasting appeal. It is to move units; sell the most music to the most possible numbers of people very quickly. It is essentially fast food; something people do not value the inherent quality of but seek instantaneous and short-term sustenance. It is not elitist to hate this process. For those of us who enjoy care, quality, professionalism, and earnest, heartfelt passion, with genuine emotion injected into our music, commercial music is blasphemy. People don't hate it because it's bad--quite the contrary, commercial music is expertly produced. No. People hate it because it's simply boring. It has to be, in order to be likable by everyone. |
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| Originally posted by HardTranceProd Most people have never even heard of someone like East Clubbers. |
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| Originally posted by XenatR lol true poland produces great artists like east clubbers |
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| Originally posted by Fearless One as a polish i can say that i've heard about them... and they ain't great artists... even a bit |
i've heard about Clubbase and Dj Witek... but mainly from names and maybe one or two tracks... it's not my piece of cake
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| Originally posted by XenatR sometimes the simple things are best ;p |
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| Originally posted by XenatR tracks like norman bass - how do you like bass are the work of genius' |
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| Originally posted by Numidia People don't like "cheese" because they are conditioned from a young age to automatically dislike any music that is emotional/beautiful for fear of being seen as "gay" or "weird"... that's my take. People who don't give a shit about stereotypes like that will go on loving real music no matter what people think. |
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