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-- for the TA elitists...
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quote:

Originally posted by Enmotecontrol practicing an attack stance he learned from MTV Video Jamz, in front of him (out of picture) a brick wall with a baby painted on it:

i think DMX movies contributed more to that attack stance

I find it pretty ironic that some of you are calling the whiners 'arrogant' or 'narrow-minded'. What criticism I've seen is of ego-inflated elitists who post in threads bashing other people's opinions, claiming to be the know all and end all of everything that is trance music, and anyone who disagrees or has slightly different tastes is automatically an idiot. If those people could just suggest tracks in a polite fashion and without acting all superior to everyone, then we wouldn't have any problems. The input they give is much appreciated - it's their arrogance and closed-mindedness that isn't.

Good to see that even a serious thread about this can devolve into a discussion on Africa. Case in point. Good job, MD.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 There aren't any real elite people on this board, everyone is on the same level.

Ha, I remember when Dave Piazza returned from the wilderness, having discovered Ishkur's guide. He proceeded to utterly reverse his previous opinions and attack everyone on the basis that ASOT isn't real trance. I called him a dick for being so pathetic, and so he started saying "this is what happens when a trance cracker is shown overwhelming proof" over and over, even though I hadn't made any comment about ASOT, or indeed ever listened to the damn thing.

So yeah... some people will act like complete dicks as soon as they move out of their "everything is good" stage and into the "only small sub-genre X is good" stage.

Dave Piazza was just a complete ass through and through.

quote:

Originally posted by UWM Good to see that even a serious thread about this can devolve into a discussion on Africa. Case in point. Good job, MD.

Yeah, but at least it's funny.

On topic:

I agree with what Floorfiller is saying. Although I don't know nearly as much as some people on this board, I have been visiting here for a while now. Years ago, I would spend lots of time reading MD, obviously because most of the topics interested me. Before, I would depend on MD to discover pretty much all of my new music. My tastes changed and I consider a lot of what I used to like as crap with some nostalgic value. Now I'm exploring just as much if not more new music than I did back then and I get very few of my ideas from MD.

there's a name i hadn't seen in a while...

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 I find that each person here tends to specialize in their own thing, and each person is here for a different reason. It used to be that most were mp3 hunters, everyone was listing tracks to paste into napster or posting audiogalaxy links, everyone was watching the streams and collecting all the releases and memorizing track names and identifying them in sets. Some kids would latch onto one artist and know everything there was to know about that person, other kids would be into less popular genres or music from different eras in history or hundreds of other things...so even though a lot of people have grown to think of me as elitist...i still contribute positively when a genuine interest is there... Then there were the kids who just liked to chat, to find like-minded people, to pick the brains of kids all over the planet, some kids enjoy arguing, some are just curious explorers of various topics. I'm just saying this because it seems like alot of you think the only purpose of this place it the hunt for tunes and talk the buzz surrounding the international headliner DJ's. But there is alot more going on here than that, I don't think very many people are going to miss one person ceasing to post stuff. Anyone can go on a google adventure and find tunes to talk about or visit a record shop, there are not very many kids whos musical satisfaction depends mostly on the contributions of 'elitists'. There aren't any real elite people on this board, everyone is on the same level. Some kids have really big egos that make them feel surperior and some feel like they have to climb the ranks somehow but there really isn't any sort of ranking system here besides the fucking post count. Each and every person here is worth the same, everyone has unique insights and a unique set of music that is available to them. What makes this place a valuable resource is the exchange of those unique things that each person has. If all the kids who consider themselves elitists just stop then new ones will emerge, nobody here is truly elite and irreplacable, anyone who has been here very long has seen enough "elitists" come and go to realize that.

well said...

and of course i'm not trying to suggest that TA is going to fall apart if i alone was to stop posting or something...

i'm just saying that a lot of people that are thought to be elitist here are the very people that spend the most time talking about music. its just disheartening and frustrating...hell i'm pissed off about a lot of stuff on this site and last couple of days i was giving good suggestions and links to samples for some n00b kid that was looking for a particular sound. that sure was elitist of me...

and of course TA is about much more than talking about music and talk about the dj's...because it does go well beyond that, but also TA is segmented into sections to attempt to focus conversations into certain directions. of course MD is the main section of the site, but it should mostly serve that purpose. and there is nothing wrong with debate or arguing about things...i don't really think that's where the frustration comes from...

quote:

Originally posted by Aquarian I find it pretty ironic that some of you are calling the whiners 'arrogant' or 'narrow-minded'. What criticism I've seen is of ego-inflated elitists who post in threads bashing other people's opinions, claiming to be the know all and end all of everything that is trance music, and anyone who disagrees or has slightly different tastes is automatically an idiot. If those people could just suggest tracks in a polite fashion and without acting all superior to everyone, then we wouldn't have any problems. The input they give is much appreciated - it's their arrogance and closed-mindedness that isn't.

maybe you haven't been here long enough to notice, but that is not where arrogance and narrow-minded posting stems from. it's completely reactionary.

it's frustration built up and then turned into anger. all of this for the most part starts with people posting in the music discussion with a lack of interest in TA besides their own self promotion or frustration with people that seem to not care enough to take time and search for some information. instead they post once asking for track suggestions and then are never heard from again.

i think that's what really started all of the attacking and bashing in here.



anyway, i was thinking about all of this on the drive to work today and i kinda came to the conclusion that you're either part of the problem, the solution, or not a part of it. so i guess my little TA resolution this year will maybe be trying to get back to the real reasons i like posting MD, music and discussion. and maybe some people will feel similar. historically i've been one of the friendliest and most helpful members of this site and that has kind of changed over the last year...and i don't necessarily like that...so i guess i'm either going to start posting more meaningful posts in MD or just not post at all. i don't think it'll really change anything because i honestly don't think many of the people complaining really care about tranceaddict.

I know I don't.

Over the time i've been a member here and some months before when i was just a reader, i have noticed alot of changes in the overall feel of this place from a friendly community to a rather hostile warzone where pretty much everything not asked by and about "the big ones in the scene" gets bashed to pieces. We all were in the same situation once than those who seek for info and new tunes to listen so we should understand their point of views too instead of "you suck, go home to cry" kind of replies. Except when the thread starters/posters are just plain stupid and don't know what's good for them.

I don't post that much nowadays because there are only a very little number of interesting subjects and my real life has taken more of my time than it did some years ago. I still hope the good vibe of TA returns some day but until then i'll rather remain in the background and bother only with those who really are in need and don't know any other way to do things. Even if i like to help out people in distress and need, seems that most of the people wanting and posting about something for info, are just way too lazy and can't be arsed to do a few secs of googling or using the TA search (which works very well when you learn to use it properly; to those who always say they tried but didn't find anything).

Re: for the TA elitists...

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller i just thought i'd say this. we got a lot of people around here these days that don't seem to appreciate what we contribute to the boards so i don't know about the rest of you, but i'm going to stop contributing. these are the same people that rely on us to ID their unknown tracks, fill in their dj tracklists, give them new tune suggestions that are "spacey" or "vocal" or "chill"... seriously why are we wasting our time? we all spend a lot of time researching music and finding tunes that we love...we should just stop sharing that with all of these people that are always bitching... let's face it, those that actually have a genuine interest in talking about music around here are sadly in the minority. i don't remember the last time i actually got a decent answer or good suggestion on this board...i can't remember the last time i found out about a tune on TA that i hadn't already known about...and when i do it's always the same ten people coming through with great sugestions. meanwhile we are excited to share music tastes and ideas with each other just so people with little radio shows can lurk and snatch up some good tracks that we suggest for their show next week. it's just a bunch of crap. i mean we've already lost the TA battle to a bunch of people that are either promoting their average new tune or their cookie cutter radio show...and those that are just getting into the genre and think they know everything... it sucks the most for those people that actually appreciate the suggestions of the TA "elitists" and want to expand their personal taste, but unfortunately the majority is ruining it for those people... but really...lets keep our knowledge and opinions to ourselves. then where will TA be? it'll be a bunch of kids arguing about which tune on ASOT was the best that week, struggling to find new fresh music, wanting to know what that tune that dj played on that radio show was, and wishing they could get some suggestions for some "classics"... we've tried our best to keep this site full of info, but we've lost...it's not our problem anymore.

Some answers here..

* l33tist should dissapear, old users should stay : i think, the kind of user that helps everyone as you described is not an "elitist" but an useful member from my point of view. Those bashing others just for like what they dont like ( tunes, genres, artist, etc.. ) fit better in l33tist description. The confusion is that some people fits in both and sometime sthey are very useful but others complete idiots.

*Promotion shouldnt be allowed in TA, same goes with home-made radio shows. I suggest new harder rules about shows, promotion and file-sharing.

*Another rule about respect people tastes and constructive critics insteads of "this si shit", "poor",etc.. would be usefull too.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Do what you like man. I don't know if I'm an elitist or a bystander, but I'll do what I want on TA, and ignore anyone who thinks that's a crime.

yep.

quote:

Originally posted by UWM Dave Piazza was just a complete ass through and through.

Dave Piazza was here too?

Geez i thought he was just a tiesto.com phenomenon... pfffffff

yep what a twat

ah,

well I definately agree that Music discussion needs alot more music related talk and alot less drama, and that alot of kids have no appreciation for the recomendations and stuff that we give.

But you are kinda feeding the beast with this thread, you want more music discussion yet you start a drama thread in the music forum. One has to become the change that they seek in order for it to have any chance of happening.

I definately notice the general hostility towards "elitists" and I read the complaining but I dont ever really see many posts identifying just who these elitists are, except for when somebody asks if they are one and somebody else says yes. I like to beleive that we are all equal so I haven't really noticed that newbies are bashing the kids who do the most music talk, what I notice is that people are using the word elitist in several different situations, each time referring to a different group of people. Sometimes elitists are progressive fans, sometimes elitists are people like ishkur and radagast, sometimes they are people like you who work hard to find interesting new pieces of music instead of eating up the latest big name releases.

What is frustrating you? (a question for everyone)

What frustrates me is that some people seem to do nothing but complain, they will criticize and complain and spout nothing but gloom, without ever talking about things that they do like or suggesting anything that they like better. This makes kids sad without giving them any hope of finding better alternatives. I think when these kids get sad they create that hostility towards elitists. That and kids who make personal judgements of each other based on their musical preferences, like "all kids who like X are ignorant of Y because Y is objectively better so they must be noobs", I feel like that is uncalled for, a list of songs says nothing about one's intelligence or maturity yet many kids act like it defines their entire identity.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 ah, well I definately agree that Music discussion needs alot more music related talk and alot less drama, and that alot of kids have no appreciation for the recomendations and stuff that we give. But you are kinda feeding the beast with this thread, you want more music discussion yet you start a drama thread in the music forum. One has to become the change that they seek in order for it to have any chance of happening.

true people should lead through becoming what they want themselves (and like i said a couple posts up...i think that i'm going to start doing just that), but although this my be a drama thread...its useful if it perhaps gets people thinking in the same mindset.

so is there a common set of music you find that 'elitists' share a taste for?

or is everyone scattered and into different things?

Personally I find that my tastes are very inconsistent. I'll fall in love with a tune that nobody else really sees the beauty of, I'll go off in a random tangent and dig up something that sounds so wild and foreign to me that I like it but am too embarrased to play for anyone but myself, then sometimes I will go crazy for the same anthem that everybody else is feeling. In general though I enjoy ameteur music, creative commons stuff, kids playing with reason(sometimes) or buzz(alot more).

You are not your post count. Your experience in music is not based on that. Just because people just registered doesn't mean they lack any knowledge in music.

for the so-called elitists i am always open to listen to your suggestions for better music, as there's always something better or unique out there that deserves my time to listen.

but if you are going to be let down by some newbie kiddies who think they know it all, this place probably isn't for you, or any other internet-based forum for that matter.

For me it is that I dont take the time to read the second, third, fourth, and ect pages of MD. I just take time to read the first page and the posts that get the most replies are posts about arguing differences in musical taste and "my favorite dj has a bigger penis than your favorite dj." Easy way to fix it would be to not bump the post when someone posts in it and list posts chronologically. Along with that an easier way to track the posts you have posted in(like on the bottom of the page instead of all the names of people browsing). The people who argue just for attention wont get that anymore and leave and the conception is that TA changed but really the posts(the ones that are just arguements) are just buried more and harder to find.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 so is there a common set of music you find that 'elitists' share a taste for? or is everyone scattered and into different things?

I think the only thing that 'elitists' share is their desire to find as much music to satisfy their tastes as possible. This means, in most cases, they've heard, explored, and exposed themselves to far more music than your typical ASOT fan.

As a result, when ASOTfan420 proclaims the latest 'choon' off of the radio show is the greatest song evar, someone who's heard far more can't help but shake their head just a little, since they've most likely heard something that easily trumps said 'choon'. If said 'elitist', in a kind gesture to help expose more music to ASOTfan420, attempts to recommend something just as good, but ultimately more obscure, for some reason it gets interrpretted as an attack on ASOTfan420's taste in music (of course, it all depends on how tactfully the 'elitist' does this).

I know I've had to hold my tongue on numerous occasions whenever someone proclaims a song as the Greatest Ever when I know I've heard far better music in the past or present (and, no, it has nothing to do with taste in some cases -a great number of songs are universally regarded as better than others), just because I know I've been at that 'noob' stage myself (you probably would have never run into a bigger 2 Unlimited fan in my youth). If the new cats getting into this music show a genuine interst in this music, they will discover more great stuff on their own terms but there will be that initial warming-up period -it's impossible for just about everyone to be exposed to everything all at once. Once they've grown past that beginner stage is when it's a good time to compare musical notes and recommend material to each other, but they need that growing curve to discover this stuff on their own to gain a passion for it.

As for those who are just riding trends, there's no need to help them. They'll be long gone, following the next big thing, in no more than two years time.

Re: for the TA elitists...

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller we've tried our best to keep this site full of info, but we've lost...it's not our problem anymore.

This knife somehow cuts at both ends.. There will always be people interested in getting recommendations given by people more in the know, but on the other hand there will always be newly-registered shitheads trying to get a rise out of someone.

I don't let that get in the way of making recommendations in threads concerning music I (think I) know something about, just because I like it when other people are pleasantly surprised by hearing tunes I've recommended. Not that it happens a lot here (my general taste in music might be a little too different from the general preference), but still, it happens. Likewise, I do not hesitate to criticize something I do not like in a genre I (again, think I) know something about. To me, that's the way it should be. Sadly, reality (as far as applicable on a message board, of course) is drifting away from it every now and then. If that makes me an 'elitist' in the eyes of someone, so be it. It's not that I care.

"for the TA elitists"

nice arrogant thread title there. great start

anyway, stop whining. im a n00b, and i pwn j00 LOLZ

no but seriously, i post here asking for help, and i get nothing but flames for the music i like to listen to

i like TA, but a lot of the people here are elitist nerds

quote:

Originally posted by XenatR no but seriously, i post here asking for help, and i get nothing but flames for the music i like to listen to

you just shut the fuck up im fed up with you. you talk about people bashing your shit taste but you called all techno people drug heads in the other thread you narrowminded jerk
so take your phat bass up yours and stop whining.

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! someones getting a bit touchy

i dont know if you know, but apparently there is a drug culture in the techno scene

shhhhh.. this is only between you and me!

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