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-- how many of you write down the BPMs on the covers of your vinyl
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quote:

Originally posted by SpecRadio The BPM is not what you mix by! I've had mixes in traktor 3 where one is 138.9 and one is 139.4 and they're matched perfectly.

Uh that is because 138.9 rounds to 139 and 139.4 rounds to 139 as well. Anything above .5 rounds up, just like in math. It does the same thing in mixmeister. You do mix by BPM, you don't have to mix by the same exact BPM but you go in steps. You don't mix a 130 BPM track with something like 138 or 139 BPM, it clashes. You could mix something 130 with something 135 if you pitch up the 130 BPM track to say 132 and the other one to 133, but you don't want to deviate too much with the tracks your mixing together. It clashes and sounds off, so in a sense, you do mix by BPM but they aren't the only thing you mix with. So knowing the BPM is helpful in most cases, esp with trance.

Well you can mix a track @ 130 bpm with one that has 138-140 bpm and it CAN sound good.

If you pitch a track +6 it will change its key (-6 does the same) and you can mix it with a track that has a higher BPM. Of course it will sound a bit smoother if you pitch track A +3 and track B -3.

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Originally posted by Rockabye Well you can mix a track @ 130 bpm with one that has 138-140 bpm and it CAN sound good. If you pitch a track +6 it will change its key (-6 does the same) and you can mix it with a track that has a higher BPM. Of course it will sound a bit smoother if you pitch track A +3 and track B -3.

Yeah thats what I mean. A +3 and track B -3 sounds better than A +6, I mean you do want to be relatively close, not way off. I personally like to keep my tracks in relatively close BPM from the original unless I really have to pitch it up or down THAT much. So +3, -3 is fine in my opinion, beyond that I try to stay away from. But thats just me. So someone is free to do whatever they want. But BPM is still something that one needs to at least have a concept of when mixing so they aren't totally off BPM wise.

i never write anything down.

i too dislike to see writing on my sleeves, or vinyl label itself. i find it very disrespectful for some reason...


the difference in tempos is the reason why i purchased a pair of m5g's. as much as don't like mixing in the +-16 mode, i like it a lot more than fiddling the track that is playing in order to be able to beatmatch the next track.

my aversion to messing w/the tempo of the track that is playing is my main reason for not giving a hoot about harmonic mixing.

quote:

Originally posted by Nic How are you supposed to mix in key without knowing the bpm of tracks?

I listen to it...

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Originally posted by Tranc3 I listen to it...

cool so you have all 499500 combinations memorised then?

Re: how many of you write down the BPMs on the covers of your vinyl

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Originally posted by hiram im learning to spin so im still counting beats for both records and then matching them, i count for 15 sec and then multiply by 4. just wondering how many of your pre-count the BPMs and write them down on the record or the cover for quicker mixing.

Yeah I'm just starting too mate, and until this week I've been working out approx what level to set the pitch at for each of my vinyl, using one particular vinyl (in my case whiteroom - whiteroom) as the 0% level, then everytime I get a new tune running them together to work out what % the new vinyl will run at, then sticking a little label on it. It's great for when you're starting out (at least I've found), it allowed me to concentrate on keeping tunes in time, rather than constantly rewinding records because I ran out of time trying to beat match.

Recently started mixing without using the stickers though - and its coming on fine.

Good luck with the mixing mate!

I only use the bpm counter as a generalisation, not for acurate mixing. Like if the track Im playing is 129, Ill cue up the next track and pitch it up/down to 129 and then go from there. I dont think it was ever meant to replace beatmatching.

quote:

Originally posted by Nic cool so you have all 499500 combinations memorised then?

Let me see if I'm understanding your question correctly.

Each track is written in a certain key. Say I have the live track playing in C Major and the cued track in natural A below C major. Either the live track has to be pitched down or the cued track pitched up to both be in the same key...or depending on the chord progressions used, you could just use other keys that will create the desired cadence. Is this what you're getting at?

Because if so, no I don't have X amount of combinations memorized. The whole point of just listening to it is so I don't have to carry out calculations, so I don't have to memorize tables. Just listen to it, it's not that hard.

i've thought about putting the bpm and key on there, but i don't have the hardware to do it (and i'm not going to tap the spacebar to the beat either!). maybe when i start converting my vinyl to CD/mp3.

couldn't hurt! but yeah, i don't recommend it for newb DJs who have to train their ears first....

edit: don't live by it, cuz there are some tracks that can sound a lot better at around +6 (depending on the mix)

I only use the bpm counter to check the speed of the first track.
How the hell do you figure out the key? I've never understood how you tell.
I'm guessing that when two tracks clash that means they're way out of key?

quote:

Originally posted by Tranc3 Let me see if I'm understanding your question correctly. Each track is written in a certain key. Say I have the live track playing in C Major and the cued track in natural A below C major. Either the live track has to be pitched down or the cued track pitched up to both be in the same key...or depending on the chord progressions used, you could just use other keys that will create the desired cadence. Is this what you're getting at? Because if so, no I don't have X amount of combinations memorized. The whole point of just listening to it is so I don't have to carry out calculations, so I don't have to memorize tables. Just listen to it, it's not that hard.

With 1000 records there are 499500 combinations of mixing 1 record with another record out of that 1000. My point was that its close to impossible to remember if every single record in your collection mixes with every single other record.

Harmonic mixing allows you to mix without memorising every combination of records. Mixing 2 tracks that are in key or are in similar keys almost always works, in order to harmonically mix you need the key AND the bpm of the track. There are no tables or anything to memorise, and there are no calculations to do, if you dont understand read the harmonic mixing thread.

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Originally posted by DJ_LG I only use the bpm counter to check the speed of the first track. How the hell do you figure out the key? I've never understood how you tell. I'm guessing that when two tracks clash that means they're way out of key?

You use your keyboard/piano

quote:

Originally posted by Nic You use your keyboard/piano

being that im not musicaly inclined in any way i dont own a piano or keyboard. would i have to take a keyboarding class or start lessons to know the keys?

quote:

Originally posted by Nic With 1000 records there are 499500 combinations of mixing 1 record with another record out of that 1000. My point was that its close to impossible to remember if every single record in your collection mixes with every single other record. Harmonic mixing allows you to mix without memorising every combination of records. Mixing 2 tracks that are in key or are in similar keys almost always works, in order to harmonically mix you need the key AND the bpm of the track. There are no tables or anything to memorise, and there are no calculations to do, if you dont understand read the harmonic mixing thread.

I read the first hundred posts or so, and my understanding of it seems to be spot on. Why would you need the bpm of the track in the first place? If the two tunes are off key, you'll be able to hear it, simple as that. Just as a decent DJ can hear when beats are off, a decent music theorist can hear when two sounds are consonant or dissonant.

When I said I have my records memorized, I don't mean I have all the combinations memorized, I mean exactly what it says - I have my records memorized. I can recall any record in my collection and play it back in my head. When the live track is playing, as I go through my records, I subconsciously play each one back and figure out which ones will be harmonically consonant and which ones will be harmonically dissonant, and choose one, depending on the type of music that's playing. And yes, I can pitch them up or down one semitone at a time...in my head.

How is that not easier than going through all your records, keying each one beforehand, and then remembering the pitch percentage differential to semitone conversion?

Just listen to it, and if you know what to listen for, you'll be fine.

quote:

Originally posted by SpecRadio The BPM is not what you mix by! I've had mixes in traktor 3 where one is 138.9 and one is 139.4 and they're matched perfectly.

If you don't care about beatmatching, then no, the BPM is not used for mixing. But to get two tracks matched, their beats-per-minute must be the same, otherwise they will start to drift apart even after they've had their rhythms aligned.

quote:

Originally posted by Tranc3 I read the first hundred posts or so, and my understanding of it seems to be spot on. Why would you need the bpm of the track in the first place? If the two tunes are off key, you'll be able to hear it, simple as that. Just as a decent DJ can hear when beats are off, a decent music theorist can hear when two sounds are consonant or dissonant. When I said I have my records memorized, I don't mean I have all the combinations memorized, I mean exactly what it says - I have my records memorized. I can recall any record in my collection and play it back in my head. When the live track is playing, as I go through my records, I subconsciously play each one back and figure out which ones will be harmonically consonant and which ones will be harmonically dissonant, and choose one, depending on the type of music that's playing. And yes, I can pitch them up or down one semitone at a time...in my head. How is that not easier than going through all your records, keying each one beforehand, and then remembering the pitch percentage differential to semitone conversion? Just listen to it, and if you know what to listen for, you'll be fine.

So what you are saying is that youll listen to the record playing, and be able to listen to another record playing over the top of it in your head, compensate for the pitch shift and determine if theyll sound good together, ie if they are in the same or similar keys. And you can do this for every single combination of records in your collection of more than 1000 records?

If you can really do that you must be the greatest dj i have ever known, do you have a demo to download?

For the rest of us writing the key and bpm on records isnt nearly as lame as you make it out to be

And about 5.5% is 1 semitone, which is about 7 or 8 bpm for most trance/dance/house music

quote:

Originally posted by hiram being that im not musicaly inclined in any way i dont own a piano or keyboard. would i have to take a keyboarding class or start lessons to know the keys?

Nope, search around the forums, how to key your tracks has been explained before. Youll need some kind of keyboard, there are software keyboards you could use. There are also lists of tracks and their keys in the forums (and in other places on the internet).

quote:

Originally posted by Tranc3 I can recall any record in my collection and play it back in my head. When the live track is playing, as I go through my records, I subconsciously play each one back and figure out which ones will be harmonically consonant and which ones will be harmonically dissonant, and choose one, depending on the type of music that's playing. And yes, I can pitch them up or down one semitone at a time...in my head. How is that not easier than going through all your records, keying each one beforehand, and then remembering the pitch percentage differential to semitone conversion? Just listen to it, and if you know what to listen for, you'll be fine.

Wow I never realized we had such an incredible DJ in our midst. I feel honored. I wish I had that musical photographic memory, but I don't, so I take five seconds of my time to write the key and BPM on my tracks the first time I listen to them.

Looking at a little lable or marking really quickly is on an order of magnitude faster and easier than having to subconsciously pitch tunes up in your head. And most people I know that mix harmonically by ear really don't they just think they do.

Damn, no need to resort to thinly disguised ad hominem attacks. Yes, I have all my records memorized. Yes, I can pitch them up or down. This does not seem like a big deal to me, I've been able to do it all my life. Just as the person born with faulty nerves doesn't think it's particularly special that he or she can put his or her hand in a fire and not feel anything, I listen to sounds and memorize them.


I'm not saying writing down information is lame, I'm just pointing out my method takes less effort on my part, and figured I'd share it. However, having never talked about harmonic mixing to another DJ, I've never thought of it as anything special, and still don't. Apparently what I do is not practiced widely. How that translates to my being an incredible DJ is beyond me, sounds like faulty reasoning really, but then again, as stated before, you are resorting to ad hominem attacks, and for no discernible reason.

quote:

Originally posted by Tranc3 And writing down the bpm for categorization purposes is a lame excuse if I've ever heard one

quote:

Originally posted by Tranc3 I'm not saying writing down information is lame

*coughs*

I apologise if you feel my posts were attacks, but it offends me when people have a know-it-all attitude without knowing much at all.

Of course i'll gladly be proven wrong, do you have a demo i can download?

quote:

Originally posted by Tranc3 Damn, no need to resort to thinly disguised ad hominem attacks. Yes, I have all my records memorized. Yes, I can pitch them up or down. This does not seem like a big deal to me, I've been able to do it all my life. Just as the person born with faulty nerves doesn't think it's particularly special that he or she can put his or her hand in a fire and not feel anything, I listen to sounds and memorize them. I'm not saying writing down information is lame, I'm just pointing out my method takes less effort on my part, and figured I'd share it. However, having never talked about harmonic mixing to another DJ, I've never thought of it as anything special, and still don't. Apparently what I do is not practiced widely. How that translates to my being an incredible DJ is beyond me, sounds like faulty reasoning really, but then again, as stated before, you are resorting to ad hominem attacks, and for no discernible reason.

Being able to listen to a particular track, "hear" another track playing over it in your head, and be able to compensate for pitch differances is not an easy task, for example if your record is playing at +2% which is 134 bpm (at 0%) and you have a track that you "hear" in your head which is 132 bpm it would have to be pitched up to 3.5%.

Hearing the the track overlayed isnt difficult, its hearing the track overlayed at the right pitch. For a start you have to know (subconsciously or consciously) that the track needs to be pitched up that much, and then how it will sound with that change in pitch.

Honestly i dont think you can do it, with a handfull of records yes but not with 1000 records.

Prove me wrong

No, never..

I always try to get a set together before I play out though.

quote:

Originally posted by Cutz No, never.. I always try to get a set together before I play out though.

I used to do that all the time too, but after a while I found myself playing the same records with each other when I played out because I was too scared that I would have a sour mix. I started mixing harmonically and I have so much more confidence now because I know which tracks work well with each other.

I put a label on the upper right hand corner of the sleeve and sort my record case by key, then bpm.

ah just count it in your head and look at the watch for 10 seconds then multiply. Simplified. You don't need to write down your beats. You never ever want to put bpm numbers.. always leave it in your head. Don't be lazy lol..

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