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-- Another sign that Toronto's tourism is finished
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planet hollywood closed in montreal a few years back... but tourism is still freakin good

wtf

quote:

Originally posted by Orko Raves have a purpose to. They are celebrating MUSIC! Every fesitival has a theme and focal point. Otherwise its just a bunch of poeple standing around.

what i meant was.. do they all have to have a politically correct purpose?

quote:

Originally posted by FunKenLouis planet hollywood closed in montreal a few years back... but tourism is still freakin good wtf

luckily your politicians arent as anal as ours so people still see montreal as the place to go for a good time. It used to be like that here too.

I wonder how many of those tourists are party refugees from toronto though lol

bah... if tourism i all about planet hollywood... well their is a funken problem with your city...

It aint about tourism... its about the way the place is managed and everything,....


Eaton used to be HUGE for decades.... now theyre closed...

Ailes de la modes used to be a leader in montreal.... now its empty

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 dont tell me that years ago before gay pride was mainstream that when they tried to shut down various events it wasnt almost political suicide. politicians wont go near it now. Sure they may over regulate the hell out of it. But this is canada, its what we do best. But they will never ban it like they have with many other events. The city is unwilling to give a chance to other events because we are an uptight overly conservative bunch of nimrods who like to think we are liberal thinking but really arent. The government shouldnt even be in the business of deciding which events are good and which arent. They should only make sure that the event meets fire code etc. The end. I hate how our government has become the ultimate decider of cultural event, festival, radio and tv station formats etc... its such bullcrap sure give a permit to a stones concert because "we like the rolling stones" but try to have a huge rave there and it would be game over.

all of what you say doesn't make Pride's *current* status a double standard...the fact is that it IS well run, IS hassle-free, etc...if the gov't isn't willing to take that chance on other events, that's a different issue...it's them being more conservative now. Taking something away is different that no longer granting it...it was my point with gay marriage...now that it's passed, good luck repealing it. It would have been one thing to deny it, but to take it away would be near impossible.

Toronto is admittedly well behind the pack...we wouldn't even extend last call for the World Cup in '02...and only a very select few bars receive an additional HOUR during Pride (lame)...and the special status our events enjoy are pathetic in comparison to other cities like Montreal (drink in the street during the Jazz Festival) and in BC (where they have extended last call).

I'm all for changing the current attitudes in Toronto...though I'm still pessimistic that it will be trouble free. I favour extending (not abolishing) last call...though I do think that it will be abused. Imagine the club district...yikes. More police and more stringent penalties for jackasses who break the law need to be in place before that happens. I saw NO problems in Montreal in each year I attended the Jazz Fest with open drinking on the streets that were sectioned off for it...I *highly* doubt the same would occur here...I don't know what it is...but people here are fucking stupid.

I agree that Planet Hollywood is a dump...maybe it's poor management resulting in its closure, not a lack of tourism?

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Originally posted by Jayx1 luckily your politicians arent as anal as ours so people still see montreal as the place to go for a good time. It used to be like that here too. I wonder how many of those tourists are party refugees from toronto though lol

Other than raves, could you please state some other attractions which have been closed down by the politicians?

I barely even stepped foot into Toronto in the 90s, except for Jays games. It would be interesting to see what the city once had.

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Originally posted by Orko Other than raves, could you please state some other attractions which have been closed down by the politicians? I barely even stepped foot into Toronto in the 90s, except for Jays games. It would be interesting to see what the city once had.

benson and hedges fireworks every july, jazz festival (which has been somewhat revived), madonna concert ( i remember when they almost arrested her)

They have also tried to ban marolyn manson, eminem and 50 cent.

not to mention the club crackdown that is about to happen in the name of noise and gun violence.

Re: Another sign that Toronto's tourism is finished

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Planet Hollywood is closed. That place used to be teaming with american tourists. As if the loss of theatre, nightlife and big festivals werent telling enough, planet hollywood in my opinion shows how lost we are on the world tourism stage. Whats to blame? 4 things in my opinion: 1) Loss of nightlife. I rememeber in the 90s there used to be thousands of americans for just one massive rave. Well the government took care of that didnt they? Smoking bans dont help either. 2) SARS - Thanks to CNN for that one 3) Our shit talking government - you dont think americans get offended when our prime minister and mayor talk shit about americans? Think again 4) high dollar. Since toronto doesnt have much to offer anymore in the first place, why come here when it's more expensive now than in the US? I find american travel a bargain now with the high dollar which means americans must find it ridiculously expensive. An interesting sidenote is that many prices are only slightly lower than here but what makes a huge difference when i calculate prices is the difference in sales tax. What would i do if i ran things?: 1) make it easier for nightlife to thrive once again in toronto. drop the smoking laws, extend drinking hours, and allow permits for festivals and raves again as we used to. Id amend bylaws in certain neighbourhoods to accomodate for noise like what originally happened in the entertainment district when that area was a direlect wasteland. Funny how after nightlife spurred development there they are now trying to kill the golden goose. Id find away to move the squatters off toronto island and make the portlands into a huge multi-use entertainment zone with NO RESIDENTIAL DDEVELOPMENT ALLOWED. Any residential development nearby would be forced to sign a "noise clause" understanding that there will be noise eminating from this district and that they better live with it or not move in. 2) put together a GOOD tourism package. Not a campaign with polar bears and the CN tower and the token minorities showing how wonderfully multicultural we are. Tourists dont care about that stuff. Id highlight the obvious like the CN tower but then id heavily promote toronto as a party spot with more lenient laws than the US, better shopping, and great theatre and authentic food. This is what toronto USED to be known as. Of course we wouldnt be able to promote these things till we win them back. 3) easier sales tax rebate -- the way it is now is too complicated. Id have businesses offer the rebate forms right on the spot with instructions on how to claim the rebate at the border. Right now its up to you to know which is exempt and what is not and most people dont even know they can get a rebate. In europe and argentina the shops that offer tax free have a tax free sign right on their window. Toronto is hurting and i put the blame directly on politicians who seem to be doing everything they can to kill tourism. Well guess what? its working.

i think i would prob. vote for ya too...HOWEVER I think Planet Hollywood was a big waste of space of cash and thought the food sucked.....

Toronto has a lot more unique and interesting restaurants (as well as other attractions) that portray Toronto's history, culture and lifestyle. If I was a tourist in Toronto or any other city, a chain or franchised restaurant is one of the last places I'd go. Also, I went to Planet Hollywood once and thought the food was overpriced and not great - but that was a few years ago.

Tourism has been down and for several reasons, some which are sometimes out of anyone's control. I remember seeing a T-shirt that said "I survived Toronto" with red checkmarks against "SARS, West Nile, Mad Cow, Blackout" and "SARS Again.

Guess the city still hasn't recovered. And the gun violence, especially right in front of Eatons centre, a popular tourist destination is just another reason...

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 benson and hedges fireworks every july, jazz festival (which has been somewhat revived), madonna concert ( i remember when they almost arrested her) They have also tried to ban marolyn manson, eminem and 50 cent. not to mention the club crackdown that is about to happen in the name of noise and gun violence.

- Benson & Hedges is a result of the tobacco legislation...not unique to Toronto.

- Madonna's concert continued and she was arrested afterwards...she has since been back to perform here.

You're right about the Jazz Fest though...IMHO, it's also poorly run and promoted, particularly in comparison to that of Montreal (which is 10x the size of ours).

Part of that is this uptight city, I agree, but that's also the people and businesses, not just politicians. Montreal shuts down several square city blocks of their downtown core during the festival...the businesses, people and politicians here would never stand for it, because they're so short sighted...sad.

as for concerts...those aren't indicative of the state of tourism...just of the political climate of being overly meddling and conservative.

^^^^^^^^^^^

I dont care which politician is responsible and how they went about doing it.

The fact is that the political actions of politicians have made those events extinct. I dont care what reason you hide behind, the point is that they no longer function due to government restriction and those restrictions needs to be reversed.

I have to agree with Jayx to a certain extent here. Government legislation has been a problem - especially the ban on tobacco advertising - it's been lethal for festivals. I know of at least TWO DOZEN festivals across the country that have been forced to shut down because of their reliance on tobacco funding. While this has affected other cities, Toronto has been the hardest hit.

HOWEVER

The problem isn't solely government. Where is local business to pick up the slack? It was public knowledge TWO YEARS in advance that reliance on tobacco advertising was going to be eliminated. Where were the businesses to take over the funding? Even well established festivals like Caribana have struggled to attract advertising dollars. Hell, there's doubt every year about whether Caribana is even going to be a go because of a lack of funding. Small business isn't pitching in either, although they're the first to complain when something is cancelled.

If you want to see tourism thrive in T.O. again, pray that the government doesn't ban alcohol advertising.

Re: Another sign that Toronto's tourism is finished

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 2) put together a GOOD tourism package. Not a campaign with polar bears and the CN tower and the token minorities showing how wonderfully multicultural we are. Tourists dont care about that stuff. Id highlight the obvious like the CN tower but then id heavily promote toronto as a party spot with more lenient laws than the US, better shopping, and great theatre and authentic food. This is what toronto USED to be known as. Of course we wouldnt be able to promote these things till we win them back.

Tourism groups in toronto are trying to do just that and move away from the traditional, old and tired destination marketing ideas. Here is the new brand video for Toronto Unlimited. It was poorly received by Toronto politicians and local media because it was not your typcial boring toronto destination marketing video that included a picture of the CN tower, China town, etc etc.. but outside of Toronto in the US and in the international markets, consumers and tour operators loved it because... they got it and have been waiting for Toronto to do something out of the box and interesting.
TORONTO UNLIMITED BRAND VIDEO - DESTINATION MARKETING VIDEO

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Toronto is hurting and i put the blame directly on politicians who seem to be doing everything they can to kill tourism. Well guess what? its working.

Couldn't agree with you more. The Tourism industry in Toronto has to spend too much of its PR and Media efforts on fixing the damage that Miller and other politicians have done to this city over the past year.

You are correct in that Toronto Tourism has been hurt by
1) SARS - we are still recovering from the damage the press did on elevating that scare. Bird Flu has not helped in that regards either.
2) high dollar - canadians are not traveling within canada so domestic travel to Toronto has dropped. More Canadians can afford to travel to international locations and therefore opt not to travel within our own country. We have alos lost a signficant percentrage of our US overnight drive market as the cross border shopping is just not happening like it used to.
3) Politicians hurting tourism with their Anti-American comments. Anti-American comments in the media equates to us being an unfriendly nation/city and when Americans were polled last year as to why they were not or why they would not travel to Toronto this was very high on the list, if not their biggest concern.
4) Safety has become a major issue in the last year for obvious reasons and the media, like they did with SARS, is jumping all over this and not helping out Torontos image in any way.
5) Border crossing issues have had a huge affect on our US overnight drive market. People are confused about what the new passport requirements are and when they will come into affect. Far more Amercians do not own a passport as compared to Canadians so if they getting passport and using the passport to be a burden, we will lose them.

I don't agree that TOronto's night life is not thriving though. We do though do a poor job on communicating to consumers that Toronto has more to offer than the CN TOWER etc but our nightlife, for those who have visited the city, ranks very high on their list of reasons why they would return. I do agree that the introduction of more festivals is needed to help animate this city and that city officials in Toronto are not as open minded when it comes to such things EDM festivals. Montreal seems to have city support but Toronto can't seem to get there. The city officials in Toronto have become so very reactive when it comes to serving the citizens of Toronto that I think they forget to see the bigger picture for Toronto as a whole when it comes to these types of issues. Selling it won't be easy.

quote:

Originally posted by nacarter I have to agree with Jayx to a certain extent here. Government legislation has been a problem - especially the ban on tobacco advertising - it's been lethal for festivals. I know of at least TWO DOZEN festivals across the country that have been forced to shut down because of their reliance on tobacco funding. While this has affected other cities, Toronto has been the hardest hit. HOWEVER The problem isn't solely government. Where is local business to pick up the slack? It was public knowledge TWO YEARS in advance that reliance on tobacco advertising was going to be eliminated. Where were the businesses to take over the funding? Even well established festivals like Caribana have struggled to attract advertising dollars. Hell, there's doubt every year about whether Caribana is even going to be a go because of a lack of funding. Small business isn't pitching in either, although they're the first to complain when something is cancelled. If you want to see tourism thrive in T.O. again, pray that the government doesn't ban alcohol advertising.

alcohol ad bans are next im sure. They are already going after junk food ads in the US. The fact is that very few companies have the advertising dollars to spend on big events like the tobacco and alcohol companies do. And those companies that do have the dollars are usually gearing their ads to an older audience hence the lack of funding.

Re: Re: Another sign that Toronto's tourism is finished

quote:

Originally posted by angelgirl I don't agree that TOronto's night life is not thriving though. We do though do a poor job on communicating to consumers that Toronto has more to offer than the CN TOWER etc but our nightlife, for those who have visited the city, ranks very high on their list of reasons why they would return.

You mean used to. I can find you a few examples of americans who come less frequently now since many venues have shut down. most of them forcibly.

Re: Re: Another sign that Toronto's tourism is finished

quote:

Originally posted by girllovingtvibe HOWEVER I think Planet Hollywood was a big waste of space of cash and thought the food sucked.....

AMEN!

As a Yank who visits Canada often, I would agree with some of your points - but the biggest one to me is the low trade for the American dollar these days. Even back in March it was like 1.31 CAD for 1 USD. Now it's more like 1.09 CAD for 1 USD. It stinks on the trade in and it definitely makes me spend less in Canada.

But what are we to do with Mr. Potato-head with his genius outsourcing, big company sheltering ways?

Kris

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