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quote:

Originally posted by medinaM5 concord dawn kicks ass...just saw your set up in dj booth section neo...very nice

which set was that?

posted a couple in there

your sick set up...http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...&pagenumber=185

half way down page

ah set up, not set lol

i was on the wrong track there, thought u meant one of my sets that i had posted for download lol

thanks, i do love my stantons

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur No, it makes you a DJ. Period. Playing 11 records back to back makes you a jukebox. You people need to separate your devotion to the music you love from the DJs you love playing it. They are two separate things, and your problem is you can't tell the difference. If you're just there for the music, then you really don't need the DJ, and he doesn't deserve a god damn ounce of respect or admiration. Download the tracks and cue them up in winamp with a cross-fader plug-in if that's what you want. But, on the other hand, if you are really there for the DJ, then his proficiency, skill and creativity are to be valued, encouraged, and expected.......not the music. Any ****** can play music. We aren't impressed by that shit. If you want people to worship your mix, do something special with it. Armin's 40-track megamix is a welcome, refreshing pace to the hordes of same-sounding, boring trance DJs who think all they have to do is show up, play records and fake the rest and be revered for it. Fuck that shit. Get some skill or get the fuck off the tables. Because if you don't, your job will be replaced by robots within ten years.

right I agree wholeheartedly with your second paragraph. but isnt the purpose of a DJ to send you through a journey via the music? What I find seperates the DJ from the average Joe is impecable track selection, timing and flow. If it sounds effortless and transitions seemlessly its done its job. playing over 30 tracks is great and all and it takes skill but it shouldnt be criteria for a good dj. the (widely considered) best sets have been 12-15 tracks long...

quote:

Originally posted by RapidFire right I agree wholeheartedly with your second paragraph. but isnt the purpose of a DJ to send you through a journey via the music? What I find seperates the DJ from the average Joe is impecable track selection, timing and flow. If it sounds effortless and transitions seemlessly its done its job. playing over 30 tracks is great and all and it takes skill but it shouldnt be criteria for a good dj. the (widely considered) best sets have been 12-15 tracks long...

Agreed with you on that one, as said above i much prefer the flowing seemless mixes

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur No it shouldn't. It should be as many or as few as you want, but generally if the aim is to get people to listen to your mix, and not the music that makes up the mix, logic dictates that you should at least try to do something special with it. For superstar status, 20 tracks is a good minimum.

by my first quote, i was refering to your first post saying that 11 tracks dont impress you. i shouldnt say 'should' though, WOULD!!
by saying mix, i assumed hes making one to burn. tracks nowadays are 5-10 minutes average. so yeah. but i do agree with you. the more you mix, better can tell if ur good at it or not

quote:

b-b-b-b-b-b-but what about that "reading the crowd" secret hard-to-master skill that only DJs know how to do and no one else?

i know you dont like the 'read the crowd' trick. now youll criticize me for calling it a trick im sure youre just joking here. no need to explain

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Yes. Don't ever let spontaneity get in the way. Pre-programmed sets are what everyone likes. Also, it's much better to "read the crowd" that way.

skip

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NOTE: Killing the bass for 1 bar and then bringing it all back in full force is not "mixing style". That's shit I do in my car to the radio.

speaking of car stereo, is there a car stereo with a pitch control?


No argument there. I'm just joshin' though. You know that. [/QUOTE]

quote:

Originally posted by RapidFire isnt the purpose of a DJ to send you through a journey via the music?

Sure, but there hasn't been a single trance DJ that's been anywhere near as capable or even interested in doing anything remotely near this in damn near 10 years, so it's a moot issue.

quote:

Originally posted by RapidFire What I find seperates the DJ from the average Joe is impecable track selection, timing and flow.

Yes, because when Tiesto plays Adagio for Strings, it just sounds so much better than when DJ nobody plays Adagio for Strings.

Track selection died 6 years ago. Every bigname DJ you know is only there to play his own label's records and the records of his friends, increasing their exposure and promotion. The only journey he wants to take you on is to the music store to empty your wallet buying his self-aggrandizement in a neat plastic package.

Timing does not exist. Stitching together the throwaway beats at the end of songs reeks more of "last minute panic" then timing.

Flow does not exist either, especially not in trance, and quite frankly you wouldn't know how to interpret flow if it jumped off the decks and crawled up yout butthole. If your only justification for worthy DJing is to fool yourself into pretending he's doing something magical up there when he has his arms in the air, through some obfuscating, abstract bullshit, then I got news for you: most of the DJs in this scene don't have the foggiest fucking clue what they're doing, they just want attention. And they'll play all the records everyone knows and likes in order to get it.

That's not called flow, it's not called timing, and it's not called "reading the crowd". It's called pandering, and it's stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by RapidFire If it sounds effortless and transitions seemlessly its done its job. playing over 30 tracks is great and all and it takes skill but it shouldnt be criteria for a good dj. the (widely considered) best sets have been 12-15 tracks long...

No, the most marketed sets are 12-15 tracks. The best sets in the world are so cohesive that no one can really talk about the individual tracks because they mesh so completely into the whole (Hawtin's DE9 does this).....which is kind of antithetical to your "track selection" comment. The best mix in the world doesn't alert you to the track selection. It's simply the best mix. Which is the avowed goal of DJing: to play one 70 minute song, indivisible.

You really haven't listened to very many good DJs, have you?

quote:

Originally posted by Wicked Neo can you put up a link to that set? Some mint tunes in that set, i do love concord dawn and ils.

Somewhere on his site, I imagine: http://www.whoisdjkdh.com/

The set was with 3 decks.

quote:

Originally posted by RapidFire agreed. if I may add to that; 6) don't just play the tracks every other DJ is playing out to death. try and find your own style through your trackselection and more obscure stuff as it establishes your DJ identity and sets you apart from the others unless its just a mix for kicks and youre not really serious about it.

you have a point, but i would still say not to hesitate playing a song that gets alot of play already. just because everyone plays the drill doesnt mean that youll suck if you play it aswell. if u really believe itll flow in your set and will be a great addition, then go for it. try to avoid playing a few after another or alot in the set

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Somewhere on his site, I imagine: http://www.whoisdjkdh.com/ The set was with 3 decks.

thanks, Downloading his sets now

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Sure, but there hasn't been a single trance DJ that's been anywhere near as capable or even interested in doing anything remotely near this in damn near 10 years, so it's a moot issue.

errm have you heard THIS?

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Originally posted by Ishkur Yes, because when Tiesto plays Adagio for Strings, it just sounds so much better than when DJ nobody plays Adagio for Strings.

who said that? its where Adagio is placed and which mix is used and if it's progressing the mix whilst taking bits of the previous track but not taking away from the original idea. its a hard thing to perfect. and im aware that tiesto is incapable of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Track selection died 6 years ago. Every bigname DJ you know is only there to play his own label's records and the records of his friends, increasing their exposure and promotion. The only journey he wants to take you on is to the music store to empty your wallet buying his self-aggrandizement in a neat plastic package.

true for most of them. but what does that have to do with aspiring to be a great DJ (opposite of those guys) through great trackselection and mixing? because that what we're discussing here isnt it?

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Timing does not exist. Stitching together the throwaway beats at the end of songs reeks more of "last minute panic" then timing. Flow does not exist either, especially not in trance, and quite frankly you wouldn't know how to interpret flow if it jumped off the decks and crawled up yout butthole. If your only justification for worthy DJing is to fool yourself into pretending he's doing something magical up there when he has his arms in the air, through some obfuscating, abstract bullshit, then I got news for you: most of the DJs in this scene don't have the foggiest fucking clue what they're doing, they just want attention. And they'll play all the records everyone knows and likes in order to get it. That's not called flow, it's not called timing, and it's not called "reading the crowd". It's called pandering, and it's stupid.

christ do you jump to conclusions fast..im not any trance teenny bopper who worships the superstar DJ's. I dont care for dj's waving their arms in the air, i listen to the technical aspect of their mixes and I agree that thats where most of the big names fail. I was talking about the good guys who can still make worth while mixes whilst being innovative (guys like sasha, zabiela who arent afraid to embrace new ideas and expand on what it means to be a DJ. there is GOOD music out there you know? no need to be cynical because the mainstream is shit. if everyone with good taste was like you we'd all be nagging 24/7 and not exploring the good side of music. why not talk about that for once? why all the shit? its been covered and god knows beaten to death
endlessly. we get it, they suck. ok next. now show me someone who doesent.

and yes there is such a thing as flow. building up tracks and using a part of one track to bridge with another in order to sustain the flow and keep it going. then theres tracks that upset the flow and cause the mix to shift gears into an either more or less energetic feel. thats what flow is essentialy, no? the pace and movement of the mix.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur No, the most marketed sets are 12-15 tracks. The best sets in the world are so cohesive that no one can really talk about the individual tracks because they mesh so completely into the whole (Hawtin's DE9 does this).....which is kind of antithetical to your "track selection" comment. The best mix in the world doesn't alert you to the track selection. It's simply the best mix. Which is the avowed goal of DJing: to play one 70 minute song, indivisible.

one 70 minute song? since when is that a rule for all DJs to follow? alot of DJs like mixing it up, between styles and building up their mixes from point A to point B. not just stay at point A the whole time. respect to Hawtin and his style but that doesent take away credibility from those who use less tracks in their mixes. its all about the end result isnt it?

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur You really haven't listened to very many good DJs, have you?

Yes I have. you shouldnt assume things about people simply because they question your all knowing attitude (which I wasnt really, merely what you said about track selection).

ishkur, world has changed. u seem not to be the fan of present djing but actually what i think you dont like is what the world is changing to. why do you think djs do play their own song on their set? are you against it? i am against it if he ruins the flow by playing one of his songs, or when he plays it too much. the guy has worked days and months to finish a track so the public can hear. dont u think its worth playing it when hes mixing?

as for tiesto and adagio for strings. what you said is real true. people will trip out when they hear tiesto playing it but trip in when someone else plays. they consider it as tiesto only has the right to play the song or 'he plays it better' ive seen this. thats plain stupidity. but some others will get excited when tiesto plays it because the creator of the song is playing. its the same shit for me though either if tiesto played it or a homeless did.

i think flow does exist but people dont pay attention to. i dont mean you by saying people, but i mean some djs. some djs do think of flow when mixing. i can tell if a set has a good flow, nomatter if it was done intentionally or unintentionally. i can say that PVDs set last time i heard had a great flow.

as of crowd interaction, i would say some djs do have it but its not a necessity. PVD has no interaction. he seems like he just wants to do his job and leave, whether you like it or not. i cant tell you a dj name that ive personally seen who has crowd interaction, but johan gielen maybe does?? i think im a crowd interactor. if i play something hard and see people feeling it and going nuts on it, ill play another one. but i wont be doing it just for the crowd, i would be doing it for me and my taste.

quote:

Originally posted by RapidFire errm have you heard THIS?

Yeah. Boring.

He's competent, he's just not very creative.

quote:

Originally posted by RapidFire who said that? its where Adagio is placed

Oh fuck off. Like people are in the crowd going "Wow, Adagio doesn't sound so good when he played it after Carte Blanche. Last week it sounded a lot better when he played it after As The Rush Comes."

Please. It's the same fucking song no matter where he puts it. You want to put a new spin on a hit through "track selection"......splice it with something.

quote:

Originally posted by RapidFire true for most of them. but what does that have to do with aspiring to be a great DJ (opposite of those guys) through great trackselection and mixing?

Because in trance it doesn't exist.

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Originally posted by RapidFire because that what we're discussing here isnt it?

Nope. He asked you what songs he should play. Not once did he mention anything about mixing, splicing, beat juggling, phrase-locking, scratching or any other myriad of weapons and competent DJ would employ in his arsenal. In fact, I'm willing to bet that DJing was actually a distant and secondary thought to the way he was approaching it.

quote:

Originally posted by RapidFire im not any trance teenny bopper who worships the superstar DJ's. I dont care for dj's waving their arms in the air, i listen to the technical aspect of their mixes and I agree that thats where most of the big names fail.

So your the guy.

quote:

Originally posted by RapidFire if everyone with good taste was like you we'd all be nagging 24/7 and not exploring the good side of music.

If everyone with good taste was like me, trance DJs would not be the laughing stock of the entire profession.

quote:

Originally posted by RapidFire why not talk about that for once? why all the shit?

I do. All the time. Use the search button.

quote:

Originally posted by RapidFire flow

95% of all the trance released today completely wrecks the flow of any set through the ill-timed placement of mandatory 1-minute breakdowns. So no. You're wrong. A DJ can't create flow with this music, because the music doesn't want flow. The trance pantheon has been constructed in such a way that each track keeps fighting with all the other tracks to be the CHOONFEST attention-whoring track of the night. As soon as you tell the producers to stop being self-centred pricks by making their music like this, then maybe we can get back to injecting some flow into DJ sets. Until then, they're just being glorified stereos.

Either that, or air guitar champions. Rocking out to other people's music that they pretend they invented.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur No, it makes you a DJ. Period. Playing 11 records back to back makes you a jukebox. You people need to separate your devotion to the music you love from the DJs you love playing it. They are two separate things, and your problem is you can't tell the difference. If you're just there for the music, then you really don't need the DJ, and he doesn't deserve a god damn ounce of respect or admiration. Download the tracks and cue them up in winamp with a cross-fader plug-in if that's what you want. But, on the other hand, if you are really there for the DJ, then his proficiency, skill and creativity are to be valued, encouraged, and expected.......not the music. Any ****** can play music. We aren't impressed by that shit. If you want people to worship your mix, do something special with it. Armin's 40-track megamix is a welcome, refreshing pace to the hordes of same-sounding, boring trance DJs who think all they have to do is show up, play records and fake the rest and be revered for it. Fuck that shit. Get some skill or get the fuck off the tables. Because if you don't, your job will be replaced by robots within ten years.

Look, Ishkur, you're right. A dj who plays 11 tracks in 70 minutes cannot be really considered an "artist", cause it isn't creative at all. This is a good analysis considering the whole scene (tho the number of tracks isn't directly proportional to the skills/creativity.. i'd certainly prefer a boring jukebox to 40 trainwrecks in an hour!).

Yet you can't really come here and expect this random guy on the internet, who seems to be even insecure in picking the tracks he wants to play, to suddenly be the saviour of trance with something the big guys couldn't be arsed to do in a decade. People have to start somewhere you know?

That being said, globalelectro, you should mix the tracks you like, then post the mix on dj booth forum for us to give feedback (well in an ideal world where that forum would generate a lot of feedback). As much as fitting the tracks to the crowd is important, it's the dj's that pick them, not the fans. Mixes shouldn't be judged before-hand by a list of tracks, we should listen to the whole thing to have an opinion!

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