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LOL@Trancer and his "links to credible sources".

Trancer; Where on EARTH do you get the time to let your head explode?

Hey TX I was kinda curious about that bacteria the government released in NYC and over SF. Do you know what would be the consequences of whatever chemicals they released? Like has anybody died or what?

Re: Tired of Being Lied to? Modern History You Can't Afford to Ignore

well put.

it's the power of the few that change the world for the better.

and it's the sniveling self-complacent my-life-is-all-that-matters types that fester so many problems.

stand up for good, or be trampled by evil men.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Hey TX I was kinda curious about that bacteria the government released in NYC and over SF. Do you know what would be the consequences of whatever chemicals they released? Like has anybody died or what?

I wish I knew more, but it's hard to find anything on it.

http://www.democracynow.org/article...5/07/13/1357237

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2002/01/20694.html

Re: Re: Tired of Being Lied to? Modern History You Can't Afford to Ignore

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Originally posted by MERiDiAN5i2 well put. it's the power of the few that change the world for the better. and it's the sniveling self-complacent my-life-is-all-that-matters types that fester so many problems. stand up for good, or be trampled by evil men.

Just like to add; if you are not running your own life, someone else will!

Re: Re: Re: Tired of Being Lied to? Modern History You Can't Afford to Ignore

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Just like to add; if you are not running your own life, someone else will!

I know what you were saying and I'm not trying to divert or misconstrue your statement, but you also have to put that into perspective. How would you classify "running your own life?" Does that mean that a person has to be generating taxable income, or would you accept an intellectual, spiritual or humanitarian contribution?

We the people may have the ability to vote for our elected representatives, but we have no say whatsoever about how our tax dollars are put to work. I know that I don't want my money to be going towards killing other people, especially if any of them are innocent civilians as we've seen it to be the case all too frequently during times of war.

Also, my country was created under the premise that it was to serve the people's best interests, not the other way around with the people serving the politician's best interests.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Tired of Being Lied to? Modern History You Can't Afford to Ignore

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Originally posted by Trancer-X I know what you were saying and I'm not trying to divert or misconstrue your statement, but you also have to put that into perspective. How would you classify "running your own life?" Does that mean that a person has to be generating taxable income, or would you accept an intellectual, spiritual or humanitarian contribution? We the people may have the ability to vote for our elected representatives, but we have no say whatsoever about how our tax dollars are put to work. I know that I don't want my money to be going towards killing other people, especially if any of them are innocent civilians as we've seen it to be the case all too frequently during times of war. Also, my country was created under the premise that it was to serve the people's best interests, not the other way around with the people serving the politician's best interests.

By 'someone else' controlling your life, I mean government and the entrapment of poverty dole-outs.
Take control of your financial situation, or someone else will...

Voting is absolutely one way of directing government.
The other is to become a person of influence like a business owner for example.
And you exactly right, the government is supposed to be serving the people.
What we are experiencing here in Canada is the exact opposite of that, which is why on Monday, the current Liberal Party (rife with corruption and scandal) will be voted out of office in our general election...

Tired of Being Lied to? Modern History You Can't Afford to Ignore

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1950: The US government establishes the first program to develop human mind control techniques, conducting 149 separate experiments using electroshock, hypnosis and drugs on unsuspecting inmates, mental patients, minorities and others. Government researchers conduct secret germ tests on U.S. citizens, releasing live bacteria over San Francisco. The Army later says it conducted open air tests of biological agents 239 times between 1949 and 1969. Congress approves the Security Act of 1950, which contains an emergency civilian detention plan that remains in effect for more than 20 years. During the early 1980s, Oliver North helps draft secret wartime contingency plans which provide for "the imposition of martial law, internment camps, and the turning over of government to the president and FEMA," and more than twenty years later, the Sydney Morning Herald reports that the Bush administration might employ these Reagan-era security initiatives, installing "internment camps and martial law in the United States." Following the Sept. 11 terror attacks, reports of civilian detention camps and plans to "herd people into sports stadiums," are punctuated by John Dean's question: "Could terrorism result in a constitutional dictator?" By late 2005, after President Bush proposes a greater role for the military during natural disasters and the imposition of marshal law should there be an avian flu outbreak, former Reagan cabinet member Paul Craig Roberts asserts that "The Police State Is Closer Than You Think." (CONTINUED)

Constitutional dictatorships: What happens to democracies in emergencies

"Those republics which in time of danger cannot resort to a dictatorship will generally be ruined when grave occasions occur," wrote Machiavelli in his greatest work, "The Discourses." This quote opens the 1948 treatise "Constitutional Dictatorship: Crisis Government in the Modern Democracies," by Clinton Rossiter. In commenting upon the quote, Rossiter points out these are not the thoughts of the out-of-work philosopher "who dashed off "The Prince" in a vain attempt to wheedle a job out of Lorenzo de Medici." Rather, there are the reflections of a mature and noted scholar who had labored for years upon his work.

Rossiter looked at the phenomenon of constitutional dictatorships in the aftermath of World War II, for he was concerned that "more rather than fewer periods of crisis" lay ahead. In "Constitutional Dictatorship," he examines the experiences of crisis governments ranging from the ancient constitutional state of Rome to four modern states (Germany, France, Great Britain, and the United States), focusing on four major crises in the United States: the Civil War, the two World Wars, and the Great Depression.

Professor Albert Sturm, a student of Rossiter's work, has also written of constitutional dictatorships. In a 1949 essay "Emergencies and the Presidency" in the "Journal of Politics," for example, Sturm found that these "temporary concentrations of power in an executive" for meeting emergencies, which have been "employed by vigorous democracies since ancient times," are necessary for "the preservation of the established system in the face of temporary crisis." Typically, such authority lasts only as long as the crisis, Sturm notes, and it is sanctioned by the "existing constitutional system."

Constitutional dictatorship: Could it happen here?

Of course, the very concept of a "dictatorship" is offensive and inimical to our political thinking as citizens of a democracy. And Rossiter acknowledges that no American government has ever been a true constitutional dictatorship, as that concept is understood by students of government. Rather, he uses the term, in the American context, as "convenient hyperbole" -- an exaggeration meant to underscore how many, and how extensive, have been the powers American presidents have necessarily arrogated to themselves in wartime.

Nevertheless, Rossiter, and other students of constitutional dictatorships, do not rule out the idea that one could ever exist in America. Indeed, they raised questions in the aftermath of World War II that are still relevant today as we find ourselves in an undeclared war, and the first stages of emergency government.

Recall that FDR took the nation from a "limited" national emergency on September 8, 1939, to an "unlimited" emergency by May 27, 1941, and then to total war by December 7, 1941. Anyone who does not believe the war on terrorism will escalate, as well, is in denial.

Rossiter does not address the question of whether Americans could tolerate the undemocratic ways of a constitutional dictatorship. Instead, he is interested in the question of whether we could survive the alternative. He asks, that is, if we could "afford not to resort to undemocratic methods when such methods are essential to the preservation of the state?" To raise the question suggests the answer.
Terrorism could indeed result in a constitutional dictatorship

"Constitutional dictatorship is a dangerous thing," Rossiter advises. Such governments are the result of necessity, of the sheer imperative of survival. The greatest danger with such a form of government, and its related institutions and laws, is that they can remain after the crisis has abated.

We are fighting a war against terrorism, with no end in sight. It is a war, I believe, that will inevitably escalate. Indeed, it is a war that could force the nation to live under martial law -- for indefinite periods.

These are not decisions that should be made by the President and Congress each time the crisis escalates; rather, we should think about them carefully in advance in order to make prudent decisions later.

One need only look at the haste and thoughtlessness with which we have adopted the potentially dangerous USA Patriot Act, most of which Republicans and Democrats alike had earlier rejected, to understand why legislating in the aftershock of terrorism should be avoided if possible.

Our present emergency laws and regulations are a hodgepodge, a patchwork quilt. They respond to precedents from past great crises, and that is wise, but unfortunately these precedents do not contemplate a protracted war on terrorism, or an enemy unlike any we have ever confronted.

Congress has the power to determine whether it wants the American equivalent of a constitutional dictator in the White House. The only way to be certain that we don't make that decision during a crisis, is to revise and codify our emergency laws now -- before fear and anger in the aftermath of a possible attack might cause us to make bad decisions, and too easily trade liberty for security in numerous areas.

As I write this column, President Bush has announced that he will address the nation about his plans for restructuring the government for fighting the war on terrorism. None of Professor Rossiter's observations about our history is more chilling than his finding that each national crisis has left the nation a little less democratic than before. With the president's announcement, it is not too soon to consider whether, in fighting terrorism, we really want a constitutional dictator to lead us. I certainly don't, nor do I know anyone who does, but if a future attack comes, and is devastating, the pressure to resort to constitutional dictatorship may be irresistible.

Oh shit I am going to shit in my pants now; thanks TX you made me shit in my pants.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Oh shit I am going to shit in my pants now; thanks TX you made me shit in my pants.

Grow up! I know that you're not ten years old, so please stop acting like you are.

And if you don't have anything at least remotely intelligent to add, don't add it.

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Originally posted by Trancer-X Grow up. I know you're not ten years old so please stop acting like you are. And if you don't have anything at least remotely intelligent to add, don't add it.

What? I just like how you post a lot of bullshit. TX you must realise something. The world is chaotic we have just forgotten this with foods at marketplaces and the internet and electricity.

I am just saying there will be no dictatorship in the US because the rich won't let it happen even if Bush was to be the "dictator".

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid I am just saying there will be no dictatorship in the US because the rich won't let it happen even if Bush was to be the "dictator".

You're just saying nothing because you're talking out of your ass again, forming opinions on matters out of sheer ignorance rather than actual knowledge or information.

David Rockefeller is one of the richest and most powerful men in the world and on several occasions he's been recorded as saying things such as,

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We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries. - David Rockefeller to the Trilateral Commission, 1991

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The Trilateral Commission is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power - Political, Monetary, Intellectual, and Ecclesiastical." - Sen. Barry Goldwater

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I believe that if the people of this nation fully understood what Congress has done to them over the last 49 years, they would move on Washington; they would not wait for an election.....It adds up to a preconceived plan to destroy the economic and social independence of the United States!" - Sen. George W. Malone (speaking before Congress in 1957)

I know that I'm tired of being lied to. I find it saddening that everyone else just seems to sit back and accept it

I'm glad that I found this article again since now it seems more relevant than ever before!

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Originally posted by tiesto14 3 things i realized recently - 1. Cry all you want: you won't change a damn thing. 2. I am too busy to worry about all the evil in the world. 3. Aslong as my backyard is clean: i am content.

Those are the very qualities that they want you to exhibit, psychological impotence, acquiescence, self-centeredness and apathy.

They want you to keep chasing that dollar (like a dangling carrot) while ignoring all of the truly important issues of the world.

They want you to remain asleep and quite sadly, you seem too happy to oblige.

you need to get out more trancer.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN you need to get out more trancer.

I've been going out too much ever since I was a teen.

I've been to all of the art galleries, malls, theaters, etc. and the bar and club scene gets really old after a while

Now I prefer intellectual pursuits over going out and getting my drink on. I'm sorry if that bothers you

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Originally posted by Trancer-X I've been going out too much ever since I was a teen. I've been to all of the art galleries, malls, theaters, etc. and the bar and club scene gets really old after a while Now I prefer intellectual pursuits over going out and getting my drink on. I'm sorry if that bothers you

For some reason there's this odd generalization when it comes to free thinkers who actually question what they're told. Almost every person I know who many here would associate with a non-sensical label are pretty well rounded guys/gals that get plenty of fresh air... amongst other 'stuff' lol . Such inaccurate generalizations are rather amusing.

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Originally posted by Trancer-X Those are the very qualities that they want you to exhibit, psychological impotence, acquiescence, self-centeredness and apathy. They want you to keep chasing that dollar (like a dangling carrot) while ignoring all of the truly important issues of the world. They want you to remain asleep and quite sadly, you seem too happy to oblige.

I agree. WHen I hear people say they are too busy to care, or simply just don't care about current events, I just think how these people will be the last to realize their blatant ignorance. No wonder Bush is the president. Too many people are too 'content' to vote. Congrats you ignorant idiots who don't give a rat's ass. Anyone ever watch Jay Leno's 'jay-walking' segments? This is what I'm talking about. People who don't even know where Iraq is geographically.

listen to you two troofers patting each other on the bums

there's a difference between having a healthy academic/intellectual pursuit, and posting paranoid delusional crazy-talk in each and every thread.

im all for maintaining a certain level of consistency with one's own world view, but surely there are other topics worthy of debate that dont revolve around one world governments, secret elite plots, conspiracies etc. i think people make far less impact when they sound like a poor episode of the X files.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN listen to you two troofers patting each other on the bums

What's a troofer? And why does two guys talking remind you of bum-patting? PKC's jealous. I didn't know your wild fanatasies and imagination could do that to you man .

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN listen to you two troofers patting each other on the bums there's a difference between having a healthy academic/intellectual pursuit, and posting paranoid delusional crazy-talk in each and every thread. im all for maintaining a certain level of consistency with one's own world view, but surely there are other topics worthy of debate that dont revolve around one world governments, secret elite plots, conspiracies etc. i think people make far less impact when they sound like a poor episode of the X files.

LOL, just look at this forum. It's full of conspiracy theories you twat. What is the single largest thread here? It's the "Do you believe in the 9/11 conspiracy?"

This entire country is paranoid. But, you in Australia would have no bloody clue. We are extremely dissatisfied with the administration and with so little inside information about what happens inside the most secret of these power circles, conspiracy theories are the logical result. Obviously something went wrong and is going wrong, and we are trying to figure it all out.

If the topic is not good enough for your superior intellect, by all means don't reply?

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z What's a troofer?

you know, you lot that are hunting for the troof

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z And why does two guys talking remind you of bum-patting? PKC's jealous. I didn't know your wild fanatasies and imagination could do that to you man .

interesting you would take a sporting comment and turn it sexual

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Originally posted by Krypton This entire country is paranoid. But, you in Australia would have no bloody clue. We are extremely dissatisfied with the administration and with so little inside information about what happens inside the most secret of these power circles, conspiracy theories are the logical result. Obviously something went wrong and is going wrong, and we are trying to figure it all out.

you fool. this comment shows a distinct lack of understanding. CTs don't care who is in power, that's the whole point. oh sure, its easier when a rightwing government that tramples your constitution is in office, but it makes virtually no difference in the scheme of things. if you think the current administration is the catalyst for the nonsense crazy people spurt in this forum then you are quite deluded. CTs are CTs no matter which way the wind is blowing.

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If the topic is not good enough for your superior intellect, by all means don't reply?

i didnt mention my superior intellect now did i? in fact, my comment is more in relation to trancer-x's obvious intellectual capability, and maybe it could be put towards more thoughtful questions, rather than those topics that tend towards the paranoid.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN you know, you lot that are hunting for the troof

Well, the troof is out there lol .

And lefties like me don't look for troof, we look for tofu .

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN interesting you would take a sporting comment and turn it sexual

Now it's a sport to you? Wow, you just get more and more bizarre .

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN you know, you lot that are hunting for the troof interesting you would take a sporting comment and turn it sexual you fool. this comment shows a distinct lack of understanding. CTs don't care who is in power, that's the whole point. oh sure, its easier when a rightwing government that tramples your constitution is in office, but it makes virtually no difference in the scheme of things. if you think the current administration is the catalyst for the nonsense crazy people spurt in this forum then you are quite deluded. CTs are CTs no matter which way the wind is blowing. i didnt mention my superior intellect now did i? in fact, my comment is more in relation to trancer-x's obvious intellectual capability, and maybe it could be put towards more thoughtful questions, rather than those topics that tend towards the paranoid.

I missed the part where CT meant something...

I'm just saying, A LOT of people believe the country is being decieved, which is where all the conspiracy paranoia is coming from. When i feel lied to, I wanna try to find out the w's of all the lies.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Well, the troof is out there lol . And lefties like me don't look for troof, we look for tofu . Now it's a sport to you? Wow, you just get more and more bizarre .

Don't forget that this is the guy who thinks not people, but the government needs more rights and liberties!

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