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quote:

Originally posted by toffy I dont agree with that argument. Why trance has to be like it was in his roots? I like the mixtures of styles. It trance would still be the same as 10 years ago we all be bothered of it.

It does not have to stick to its roots, that would be against one of the key principles of electronic music: experimentalism, trying new things.

Problem is, many people didn't like the way it evolved, mainly because it went to a "please the masses" direction. It ended up getting a bad name and people moved over to something else, either because they liked it more or because they just didn't want to be uncool.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J In 2001 there was a big backlash against anthemic trance. Progressive came in in a big way, which equally upset and delighted clubbers. I think that that brief movement left everyone confused, and this new wave of soft-synth McProg stuff emerged from the pieces.

Hmm i am wondering who helped to the emerge of anything has the prefix PROGRESSIVE .....That shows a lot about the source of the back then industry....

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I don't mean this at all antagonistically, but is English your first language?

Eh..no, but my post was an answer to Rebel9 post.

Sorry if sometimes you just dont understand what i wrote, i tried to fix the previous post.

quote:

Originally posted by toffy I dont agree with that argument. Why trance has to be like it was in its roots? I like the mixtures of styles. If trance would still be the same as 10 years ago we all be bothered of it.

U want to know y? Because Then the definition of trance is going to change is going to get out of the bounds.Today we have this revolution.Tomorrow it will be some other worse than that who knows.And then in the end of the day we end up with trance which has only bass kick and rock melodies with soft synths and nothing travelling u around..and then maybe the melodies leave too trance and the bass -kick formula is what to be the trend..My point? If its not sticked to the roots (as basis ONLY BASIS) then the only thing that remains is the industry labelism of the genre the small profits and a small sample of what trance started,suppposed,targeted to be

if we didnt criticize music then the Britney Spears and 50 Cents of this world would be running the mainstream....oh wait.

I kind of agree with what Arksun had to say. An example here.

quote:

Originally posted by Purple Hey lol you sucker. Garbage Trance. Your mixes suck bigtime, please give us a break. Go die. Or kindly get into Pop music. Amateur DJs with zero skills like you are killing Trance. And if you anyone likes you at all, than check this thread out: One month and zero replies. What you will do, pull this thread up. GT the P2P/internet DJ. Amateur wannabe DJs like you are killing Trance, go die.

I've never met this person in my life, why the need to wish death upon me.

We can still choose to listen to whatever we like, for those that like cheese, let them hear cheese, but make it 7-layers please.

I want to weigh in, like I do with many of these threads about criticisms and people complaining about the music. People have different tastes, however, we need to be respectful of others. Just because something is beautiful and uplifting, doesn't mean it's crap or should be labeled as cheese. Just because something is dark and fast, doesn't mean it can't be appreciated and enjoyed equally. My biggest argument on here is that trance means different things to different people, but it has a common root. There's different sounds in trance, with the sub genres, just like other styles such as Drum N' Bass. I'm tired of people labeling melodic prog "McProg" as the thread on here talks about. Whats wrong with melodies? I mean people can choose to not listen to melodic music, and enjoy the gritter, more underground sounds, but why, if something is melodic, does it have be labeled "cheese" or "McProg" or whatever you want to call it? There seems to be those on here who really like this music for it's melodies, those that really like it for it's beat, and then others who enjoy both.

Edit: I'm not into everything they play on ASOT, I don't listen to it. I don't listen to Armin. I just find certain tracks I like, that I feel aren't so "typical" but are still good productions that have some melody and a good beat. If someone thinks Micro de Govia's productions, like his latest "Vital Spark" is "Cheesey" or "McTrance" then that's comparing it to real cheese, like Groove Coverage, there's no similarities. It is certaintly not low quality garbage...doesn't sound like it was produced in 10 minutes. Doesn't have typical trance riffs either. I stay away from those now...

I'm with toffy, Arksun had a great post.

TA is, quite often, an unsupportive forum where people get shut down in an instant.

If you really adore trance and think people need to be 'shown the way' to better music than what they've indicated they like, don't be so fucking rude and personal in your posts. It might actually help your cause (if you had one, and if you didn't have one, why'd you waste your time posting a spiteful and shitty post? For kicks? On a faceless forum? Oh c'mon, surely you've better things to do with your life)

I for one only joined up to TA for education, to help find producers and dj's whose style really connected with my tastes. It has helped alot, but there really is too much negative and unhelpful crap to sort through. Some are unwilling to persist, and people need to persist with the interest when they're straight to find what they really love and get a lasting appreciation of trance (long after the drugs don't work their magic anymore)

quote:

Originally posted by queen_vee I'm with toffy, Arksun had a great post. TA is, quite often, an unsupportive forum where people get shut down in an instant. If you really adore trance and think people need to be 'shown the way' to better music than what they've indicated they like, don't be so fucking rude and personal in your posts. It might actually help your cause (if you had one, and if you didn't have one, why'd you waste your time posting a spiteful and shitty post? For kicks? On a faceless forum? Oh c'mon, surely you've better things to do with your life) I for one only joined up to TA for education, to help find producers and dj's whose style really connected with my tastes. It has helped alot, but there really is too much negative and unhelpful crap to sort through. Some are unwilling to persist, and people need to persist with the interest when they're straight to find what they really love and get a lasting appreciation of trance (long after the drugs don't work their magic anymore)

just because we're not all happy happy joy joy doesn't mean we don't appreciate music. The attitude shown by in this case lolo is way lower than you'd expect for someone whos career rests on people buying his music. Many of us do & have for a long long time & I have to admit, seeing attitudes like this on ta only makes me not want to buy their stuff. Check out the posts from John 00 Fleming here, DuMonde, SHOKK, Terry Bones, and personally having spoken to lange, thrillseekers, pulser & above & beyond in webchats. those people know how to conduct themselves & do so with the same pride l-vee & others have, but accepting criticism as subjective & not taking it personally. People will never improve if they only hear good things, they'll carry on doing the same thing. Arksun may have some points, but the post isn't as godly as some are saying, and I note they are the newer users, who never saw ta in it's good days, when this didn't happen at all.

And to cap it off, yesterday a user was suspended for making a death threat against me in a thread just because the person he/she likes (ta users) opinions have been different to mine. now THAT'S pathetic.

Off Topic OMG Rebel9 has Elin Grindemyr as his sig, LEGEND! \O/

quote:

Originally posted by djGT I kind of agree with what Arksun had to say. An example here. I've never met this person in my life, why the need to wish death upon me. We can still choose to listen to whatever we like, for those that like cheese, let them hear cheese, but make it 7-layers please.

Just ignore that guy, he doesn't have much of a clue & I noticed the posts myself too. Now those are uncalled for, but as i said before, properly written comments are not.

Who was the guy Ian? spill the beans.

quote:

Originally posted by Simcut Who was the guy Ian? spill the beans.

Not very hard to guess, really. Though he hasn't been around much lately.

I really dont have a clue Mystery mate, I havent been around that much on here lately....

quote:

We make the music we love and believe in and are under no obligation to make what we believe specific people want to hear. The minute you start working like that, then you really do end up producing shite, you have to make it for yourself first.

am i the only one who read this part and thought that's what people complain about? arksun just said that music that is uninspired and made for reasons other than the love of music is shit...

well, i agree...and when i complain about an artist that's exactly what i'm complaining about...and i'm sure that's where most of the criticism comes from...

i get what he's trying to defend and everything, but the fact that he realizes this about some artists out there kind of proves the opposing point in my mind...

I think this thread was started with the idea to increase respect for each other here and one's opinions here on TA. And I think the fact that we need to respect each other (more) is something positive and something we will all agree on.

(should just be something trivial imo but a reminder may sometimes be necessary).

Criticism is great, but don't let it get out of hand or let it be too one-sided. And fair enough that it is often negative, but don't always let it be destructive, constructive criticism and feedback is quite often much more interesting and useful.

quote:

Originally posted by Ian And to cap it off, yesterday a user was suspended for making a death threat against me in a thread just because the person he/she likes (ta users) opinions have been different to mine. now THAT'S pathetic.

That is the kind of shit around here that I can not tolerate. That kind of violence is not necessary. Can't we all agree to disagree without trying to kill each other?

quote:

Originally posted by djGT That is the kind of shit around here that I can not tolerate. That kind of violence is not necessary. Can't we all agree to disagree without trying to kill each other?

Ok next time I will critisize your music nicely. I apologise for threats, if it meant sleepless nights for you. Dont be scared and speak for yourself.

Its kindda lame that you who has DI backing for 5 long years and a large playtime has not been able to make a single fanbase. Truly shows how much poor your taste and skills in Trance is and should probably switch to Pop music.

Djs like Ronski Speed, Blank & Jones all benefitted from DI and has been shooted to international fame. But you are still where you were 5 years back.

quote:

Originally posted by Purple Djs like Ronski Speed, Blank & Jones all benefitted from DI and has been shooted to international fame. But you are still where you were 5 years back.

I'm glad to still be where I am even after all these years, still listening to music. Yes, Ronski Speed is one of our FAV producers/DJs too, that is why he's on my next show.

If you're in the area of LA this coming Friday, feel free to check us out @ Club Heaven with Nicholas Bennison & WARP BROTHERS.

Sorry for that shameless plug there.

Back to this thread and the hate.

quote:

Originally posted by djGT I'm glad to still be where I am even after all these years, still listening to music. Yes, Ronski Speed is one of our FAV producers/DJs too, that is why he's on my next show.

You see you can be next Britney Spears.

http://forums.di.fm/showthread.php?t=88633

quote:

Originally posted by Purple You see you can be next Britney Spears.

I actually don't mind a little bit of Britney Speers, as long as it's touched by Above & Beyond, The Scumfrog, and maybe some Leama & Moor.

quote:

Originally posted by djGT I actually don't mind a little bit of Britney Speers, as long as it's touched by Above & Beyond, The Scumfrog, and maybe some Leama & Moor.

Than I hope its decided, you finally at last giving Trance a break!

Thanks, your fans(?) will be thrilled and happy to know that.

Some of them here:

http://forums.di.fm/showthread.php?t=88633

And here:

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=315503

A month old thread with 'zero' reply. Boy you surely dont get the message. Lame.

quote:

Originally posted by Purple Than I hope its decided, you finally at last giving Trance a break!

That's not what I said silly, I'll continue to listen and play trance as long as my site still says GenerationTrance.

BTW, how nice of you to subscribe to those threads, hope it didn't waste too much of your time digging them up.

Re: Everyone should read this post

quote:

Originally posted by toffy Greatest post ever.

Amen. i defidently agree, there is no "best" track, its just a polularity thing.

like some people like country....

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 I want to weigh in, like I do with many of these threads about criticisms and people complaining about the music. People have different tastes, however, we need to be respectful of others. Just because something is beautiful and uplifting, doesn't mean it's crap or should be labeled as cheese. Just because something is dark and fast, doesn't mean it can't be appreciated and enjoyed equally. My biggest argument on here is that trance means different things to different people, but it has a common root. There's different sounds in trance, with the sub genres, just like other styles such as Drum N' Bass. I'm tired of people labeling melodic prog "McProg" as the thread on here talks about. Whats wrong with melodies? I mean people can choose to not listen to melodic music, and enjoy the gritter, more underground sounds, but why, if something is melodic, does it have be labeled "cheese" or "McProg" or whatever you want to call it? There seems to be those on here who really like this music for it's melodies, those that really like it for it's beat, and then others who enjoy both. Edit: I'm not into everything they play on ASOT, I don't listen to it. I don't listen to Armin. I just find certain tracks I like, that I feel aren't so "typical" but are still good productions that have some melody and a good beat. If someone thinks Micro de Govia's productions, like his latest "Vital Spark" is "Cheesey" or "McTrance" then that's comparing it to real cheese, like Groove Coverage, there's no similarities. It is certaintly not low quality garbage...doesn't sound like it was produced in 10 minutes. Doesn't have typical trance riffs either. I stay away from those now...

I think you are totally missing the point about the disposition behind the "McProg" term. It is NOT about dissing the melodic and atmospheric parts found in progressive house/trance, not at all. Instead, it is about the lack of production, innovation, and credibility that most, if not all the progressive music (or really, what is hailed as being progressive right now) has nowadays. Take a listen to these tracks:

Tetraflux - From The Past Into The Present Future
Paul Rogers - Lazy Monday
Ortus - Pangia
Weekend World - The Word
Ariane - Eternity
Tocharian - Arcadia
Pako & Frederik - Friday
Moonface - Synchronized Knowledge

...these tracks are all examples of progressive with melody, yet they have creativity and more of a professional and refined feel to back them up, almost as if musical quality was of major importance to the producer... and it definitely shows. Now, compare these tracks to the latest wave of "progressive" producers such as Markus Schulz, G&D, Probspot, Ozgur Can, and Perry O'Neil and there is no question that something is definitely missing from the camp of Markus clones. Their music tends to seem more amateurish, trite (vocally speaking), and overall just not really gratifying enough to leave a long lasting impression. It is because of this new bland and amateurish sound that started around the beginning or so of 2004 with GDJB and ASOT that brought on the whole McProg label, because this music is essentially the McDonald's of the progressive house/trance of 1999-2003.

This lack of originality and seemingly use of preset material (possibly laziness too?) is the cause of the uproar, not the melodies. However, I will say that the melodies found in the McProg group of songs are indeed shit mostly and sound very much like a 12 year old playing a Fisher Price xylophone instead of sounding more professional, but that is a side point altogether. If Markus or G&D would keep with the level of composition and creation that the tracks years ago had and lost the "cash-grab" commerical triteness that all of their tunes have, then I'm sure there really would be no problem. But unfortunately, that's not the case at all and therefore yes, those songs can be considered cheesy.

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