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-- Why do two thirds of Americans hate Freedom?
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quote:

Originally posted by Jake Benson That's nice. Let me remind you that while I hate Bush, he likes ice cream and so do I. Does that mean I'm experiencing cognitive dissonance? No. I can disagree with one thing the Republican party is doing and at the same time agree with a Republican core value.

great! however when your hatred consumes you on the topic of gay rights and Republicans, just remember that particular core value is really not so much obstacle for you and your beliefs it's just politics.

do you know anything about the Wead tapes? (Bush being secretly taped in 1998 by Doug Wead)

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo great! however when your hatred consumes you on the topic of gay rights and Republicans, just remember that particular core value is really not so much obstacle for you and your beliefs it's just politics.

There's a difference between a core value and what a party actually does. Here's an illustration: I'm all for tax cuts and ideally so are Republicans. But meanwhile in a different value of mine... I am for gay marriage and realistically Republicans are not. Just because I would like to save $200 a year, it doesn't mean that this is more important to me than having equal rights. I can agree on one thing and disagree on the other. And whatever is most important and relevant to me is going to have more weight on it.

Another illustration:
Let's say you are pro wearing shoes and Republicans are anti-wearing shoes. Let's also say that Republicans support growing farms and you also support growing farms. Supporting farms does not justify wearing shoes. Should I tell you, "Why do you hate Republicans because they won't let you wear shoes? I mean shit, you like growing farms and so do they!" Illogical. Won't you be pissed because while you can grow your farm because Republicans allow it, you really don't care that much because your feet hurt ...because Republicans ALSO won't let you wear shoes? Let me answer for you: yes.

And now for the grand finale:
An ideal Republican value of maximizing state rights does not justify Republicans also banning gay marriage.

quote:

do you know anything about the Wead tapes? (Bush being secretly taped in 1998 by Doug Wead)

Yes, is that the one where Bush talks about smoking pot and not discriminating against gay people?

Why are you still up? Jesus why am I still up?!?

quote:

Originally posted by Jake Benson Why are you still up? Jesus why am I still up?!?

i'm at work. about to clock out. wanna get some coffee?

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Originally posted by Q5echo what the hell are you talking about? it's taken almost three years but it's in the Senate right now. Congress has been trying to strengthen the 1994 law since 1999. besides, that goes back to my original point about states rights and not to mention is a serious First Amendment debate.

State rights? A constitutional amendment against gay marriage is a serious violation of Massachussetts & New Jerseys state rights.

As for Barry Goldwater not wanting to sign the Civil Rights Bill of 1964, he considered it a violation of the rights of Southern States. Appearently Republicans did not consider everyone equal in America back then either.

On the states rights issue, it is obvious that the Republicans flip flop every bit as much as the Democrats. Alot of DC Residents also remember the DC Assults Weapons ban declared unconstitutional by the Bush White House. Obviously in many cases, the Republicans dont believe in small & limited government. The No Child Left Behind Act which the states ended up having to pay for is another example.

quote:

[b]Originally posted by Shamen DJ's [/b You can also beat the shit out of someone, or kill them for being gay and you will never be charged Federally with a hate crime.

...isn't murder a State crime down there?

quote:

Originally posted by Shamen DJ's In the U.S. you can fire someone from their job anytime, anywhere for being gay, and it is perfectly legal if your looking at federal laws. You can also beat the shit out of someone, or kill them for being gay and you will never be charged Federally with a hate crime. Bush has been in office 5 years, it's a little too late to blame Clinton. Also for the first time ever Bush wants to amend the constitution to limit peoples rights. I wonder what Dick Cheneys daughter thinks of that considering shes a lesbian. Obviously, she will never have to worry about spousal health benefits or anything like that, because of all the "Haliburton Money". The Republican Party bashes gays because bigotry sells. Seriously, wouln't the 50% of married people that end up divorced rather blame gay people than themselves for the state of family values in this country. When do you ever hear anyone say; may'be I should quit drugs, alcohol, beating my kids & wife, get rid of my mistress & stop seeing prostitutes so I can have better family values. As for my comment that bigotry sells - it does. It worked for Adolf Hitler, Barry Goldwater ( didn't want to sign the 1964 Civil Rights Bill ), Slobadan Milosevic, Hamas, & the current president of Iran, and now the Bush Administration. Politicized bigotry has helped all those people gain political power. Even Barry Goldwater, while he did loose the election, that election is why the South is Republican today. In that election all the people in the South that hated blacks left the Democrat party & became Republican.

Wow...

Let's see....gays, bigotry, divorces, Hitler, drugs, beatings, mistresses, civil rights, Hamas, Iran, Republicans and blacks all in the same paragraph.
I do believe we have the PDD intellectual dysentery award folks!

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN im not saying it shouldnt be important. just that in a world where people are being blown to pieces, tortured, persecuted by govts, or starving to death etc, i dont think gay rights are anywhere near the top of the pile.

If the U.S. population were to focus entirely on issues such as

- People being blown to pieces in Iraq
- The Federal Governments complete incompetence in the face of a major national disaster.
- The broken health care system
- The high cost of education
- Crystal Meth public health emergency
- Extremely high murder rate
- 3rd world inner city guettos
- No solution to illegal immigration 5 years after Bush's election
- Poor border & port security 5 years after 911
- Record fuel cost, when oil companies are making record profits
- Government corruption & accepting bribes.
- The Republicans horrible environmental record
- The Republicans trying to shut up NASA scientists on global warming.
- The Republicans being against Stem Cell Research, when other countries such as Italy are now taking the lead.
- Osama Bin Ladin running around 5 years later going "You cant kill Osama, America the Devil".
- The U.S. being unable to do anything in Iran because the military is stretched thin in Iraq.
- Absolutely no progress in North Korea.
- Almost every country in Latin America turning to the left in the past 3 years because of the general publics disapproval of capitalism because they see the failures of the Bush Administration.
- And the fact that since Bush has been elected, the entire world hates us far more than ever.
- Bushes lies about the reason to go to war in Iraq in the first place.
- The Valerie Plume leak. Outing a CIA agent is technically Treeason.
- Using September 11 Attacts to justify eastroughing on Americans for political purposes, just like the CIA spied on Martin Luther King in the 1960s because they didn't like his message.
- DEBT, DEBT, DEBT, DEBT, RECORD DEBT, AND MORE DEBT
- Record spending & little accountability

Then Bushes popularity ratings would be even less than 34%. I am really suprised that a trance forum is even more right wing than the country currently is as a whole.

If America as a whole is stupid enough to fall for gay politics distraction attempts then not only do they deserve the President & leadership they have, they also deserve more of the same. The Republican administration is bad for America, and just about all they have accomplished in the last 5 years is almost nothing good & alot of talk about how gays are a threat to American families. Alot of time wasted in the White House, Congress & Senate. I hope the Americans throw everyone out of office in November.

At least I'm dual citizen & can leave this country if it all goes to hell.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Wow... Let's see....gays, bigotry, divorces, Hitler, drugs, beatings, mistresses, civil rights, Hamas, Iran, Republicans and blacks all in the same paragraph. I do believe we have the PDD intellectual dysentery award folks!

What is your point?

quote:

Originally posted by Shamen DJ's What is your point?

quote:

I do believe we have the PDD intellectual dysentery award folks!

Some links of interest:

www.whitehouse.org/initiatives/posters/index.asp
www.cafepress.com/thewhitehouse/52760

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r

Oh great, here we have another priveleged upbringing, brainwashed, ultra conservative, pencil pushing geek who worships Karl Rove & pill popping freak Rush Limbaugh. You should move to the U.S. and try paying for your own fucking health care then tell us how great conservatism is.

quote:

Originally posted by Shamen DJ's Oh great, here we have another priveleged upbringing, brainwashed, ultra conservative, pencil pushing geek who worships Karl Rove & pill popping freak Rush Limbaugh. You should move to the U.S. and try paying for your own fucking health care then tell us how great conservatism is.

So says the man with a million arguements in one posting...

Ultra conservative? LOL!
That's a whole lot of opinion with absolutely no information.
Tell me, will I win the lotto and live over 100 years too??!
You just seem to know so much about me!

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r So says the man with a million arguements in one posting... Ultra conservative? LOL! That's a whole lot of opinion with absolutely no information. Tell me, will I win the lotto and live over 100 years too??! You just seem to know so much about me!

Oh, i forgot, you probably listen to Michael Savage too.

quote:

Originally posted by Shamen DJ's Oh, i forgot, you probably listen to Michael Savage too.

...yea...that must be it...

quote:

Originally posted by Shamen DJ's Oh, i forgot, you probably listen to Michael Savage too.

f**k Michael Savage and f**k you

you are to liberals what Michael Savage is to conservatives...embarassing.


(i said "f**k you" for effect only)

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r ...isn't murder a State crime down there?

for some reason, i dont think murders and hate crimes are equal offences...

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T for some reason, i dont think murders and hate crimes are equal offences...

Um no, but if you've killed a gay person doesn't the murder charge trump the hate crime or can they get both?
(I'm asking because it's not clear to me)

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo i'm at work. about to clock out. wanna get some coffee?

You know, coffee has a really bad sort of "bi-polar" effect on my personality, but I'm drunk right now so I think it cancels that out. Happy birthday to me. I love PDD!~

quote:

Originally posted by Shamen DJ's If America as a whole is stupid enough to fall for gay politics distraction attempts then not only do they deserve the President & leadership they have, they also deserve more of the same. The Republican administration is bad for America, and just about all they have accomplished in the last 5 years is almost nothing good & alot of talk about how gays are a threat to American families. Alot of time wasted in the White House, Congress & Senate. I hope the Americans throw everyone out of office in November.

Thank you for saying what I've been trying (yet most likely failing) to say!

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Um no, but if you've killed a gay person doesn't the murder charge trump the hate crime or can they get both? (I'm asking because it's not clear to me)

A hate crime is motivated by bigotry and a feeling of general disregard for a specific group of people which is supposedly worse than just killing a person because you don't like them for their individual traits. I guess it's worse because you are killing the person based on a stereotype rather than based on specifically not liking that individual. And I can't believe I just said that being really wasted. But I think it made sense. I dunno. Second thoughts?

Go drink some more

quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose Go drink some more

Just wait. My birthday still has 20.25 more hours to go!

I say we throw Bush and everyone currently in Congress and the White House. And none of them can run for office again. Plus, the next elections will not have any political campaign contributions and all lobbyists and money paid to politicians is banned. Only money they get to run for office is fromt the government.

And the only way someone gets elected is when 80% or more of the people that can vote do vote for a candidate. If the voter turnout is less than 80% then new candidates are selected.

In short, throw out the money, career politicians, and elect people who care about other Americans.

quote:

Originally posted by deprivation Only money they get to run for office is fromt the government.

you should be more specific about that, we wouldnt want the current government influencing the decision so much (by contributing to a party of their choice)

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T you should be more specific about that, we wouldnt want the current government influencing the decision so much (by contributing to a party of their choice)

currently, candidates get money from the government for elections which should continue. my point is to throw out the big contributors and lobbyists.

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