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-- making money from gigs or music
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yr ransom idea can't work because of free-riding effects

yeah, people will never pay when they know they can just wait until the thing becomes free, thats kinda why I called it a silly idea.

Maybe there could be some sort of extra incentive to people who pay, like the people who pay earn the right to distribute the tunes or sample it or something. It would kinda eliminate record labels and some IP lawyers, fragmenting that whole industry into these hyperconsumer rights purchasing types rather then giant companies who screw over musicians.(but would musicians be willing to sell their rights in this way? this would be difficult to implement)

You are right though, the idea needs some kinks worked out of it before it could ever work, people need some reason to pay, they need something they can get that the free riders can't have and wont try to steal, like preferential treatment in file sharing networks, maybe your level access to the sharing of liberated tunes can be gauged by how much ransoms you pay.(that may make it work, what do you think of a ransom model coupled with a file sharing network that gives preferential tratment to ransom contributors?)

Maybe we could create some new type in institiution that gathers together fans of the music and splits the cost of the ransom, those groups form the core fanbase for the musician and get this elite status that so many people here seem to struggle to obtain. Like legalized mp3 groups, or kinda micro record labels who go around paying ransoms and instead of just liberating the tune the rights for distribution get granted to the group who pays off the ransom(But then that group would be just as vulnerable to file sharing losses as a big record label, argh that would be difficult to implement too)

I would like to think of a way that it could be made to work, there just has to be a way to bring balance to the music industry and also allow the advantages that information technology grant us. Maybe the special file sharing network could make it work, maybe that network could even be financed by a portion of the ransom money.

if anything the producers should get more money then they do for the tracks they make (well the good ones). there should be some kind of motivation for making great music.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: making money from gigs or music

quote:

Originally posted by Shade So the producer should HAVE to DJ to earn money? From what I gather from his comments (and the idea behind the first post of the thread), he's saying producers should be giving out their tracks for free until it comes to something like a compilation or their playing it out on their own sets. That doesn't sound stupid to you?

I'm saying a producer should at least perform live for the fans, whether it's djing or manipulating their music which what ever programs they use. I'm not saying they have to give their music out for free. But basically the way things are going when it comes to music pirating and production cost to have a song released an artist has to do some type of live act to make ends meet.

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller if anything the producers should get more money then they do for the tracks they make (well the good ones). there should be some kind of motivation for making great music.

Some type of motivation? That's funny. I thought if you produce music, you're motivation was to want to touch peoples lives with it and to also just make a great track, not for the cash.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: making money from gigs or music

quote:

Originally posted by djtroa I'm saying a producer should at least perform live for the fans, whether it's djing or manipulating their music which what ever programs they use. I'm not saying they have to give their music out for free. But basically the way things are going when it comes to music pirating and production cost to have a song released an artist has to do some type of live act to make ends meet.

What do you mean manipulating their songs? And unless the track gets leaked early, it seldom affects the artist directly, moreso the label. By saying they should make ends meet by doing live acts you're essentially saying that all producers should be going out and doing gigs, I don't care if you claimed just now that they shouldn't be DJing, but the only other sort of live act is producing live, and that tends to take either knowledge of Ableton, or the ability to use hardware (which most producers can't do off the bat).

Oh.. and a producers aim should not be to please others (as I've already stated) but to please themselves. Any producer who makes music for the purpose of making other people happy is producing for all the wrong reasons.

quote:

Originally posted by djtroa Some type of motivation? That's funny. I thought if you produce music, you're motivation was to want to touch peoples lives with it and to also just make a great track, not for the cash.

ok bad choice of words...some kind of reward.


when i said motivation i meant it thinking that as things are...producers aren't really rewarded for doing good work. dj's in clubs get the bulk of money instead of those that actually make most of the work. i think that would be somewhat frustrating to those producers that aren't also dj's.

also since most producers that aren't djs have to have other jobs...if they were rewarded more for their great work they could afford to live off their productions and spend more time making great music.

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller also since most producers that aren't djs have to have other jobs...if they were rewarded more for their great work they could afford to live off their productions and spend more time making great music.

so why don't producers sell their own records on their personal websites?

people like avb or pvd will tell you that the bulk of their income is not from producing, good tracks raise profiles, but you need to be djing to make serious money?

maybe producers should ransom their tracks and DJ's should be made to pay them, would be a bit easier to balance the gap between DJ and producer than it would the gap between musician and tech savvy customer.

quote:

Originally posted by pvdclubber so why don't producers sell their own records on their personal websites? people like avb or pvd will tell you that the bulk of their income is not from producing, good tracks raise profiles, but you need to be djing to make serious money?

Some do sell their own records on their personal websites, HOWEVER individual producers don't get promoted as well without a label of any sort, and the income that would come initially doesn't get factored in if they sell it on their own. Think about it, how likely would it be for you to go and buy a track (even if it sounded good) off some no-name producers website? Also, they don't have the equipment to do things like vinyl pressings, nor the money to cover mass CD production/shipment while still making profit.

And again, most producers aren't making the tracks for the sake of making money (though it doesn't hurt) but the majority are really doing the production for themselves in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by Shade Also, they don't have the equipment to do things like vinyl pressings, nor the money to cover mass CD production/shipment while still making profit.

the marginal cost of supplying mp3s is virtually zero, if you neglect server costs.

get over vinyl, it's dead. too bulky to carry , deteriorates with time and is too expensive.

quote:

Originally posted by pvdclubber the marginal cost of supplying mp3s is virtually zero, if you neglect server costs. get over vinyl, it's dead. too bulky to carry , deteriorates with time and is too expensive.

There are enough people who are stuck on it, and this argument doesn't need to be gotten into again.

But you chose to only reply to that part of my post, please look at the rest of what I've said.

quote:

Originally posted by Shade Some do sell their own records on their personal websites, HOWEVER individual producers don't get promoted as well without a label of any sort, and the income that would come initially doesn't get factored in if they sell it on their own.

you don't need a label to promote yourself, being on a-list djs playlists will do the trick, you just need to email them your tracks.



why wouldn't I buy a track from a less well known dj?
if the tracks good, i'd purchase off their website.

quote:

Originally posted by pvdclubber so why don't producers sell their own records on their personal websites?

i think more artists should do that personally...so i agree with you, but the do it because of promotion like shade said.

quote:

Originally posted by pvdclubber you don't need a label to promote yourself, being on a-list djs playlists will do the trick, you just need to email them your tracks. why wouldn't I buy a track from a less well known dj? if the tracks good, i'd purchase off their website.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't trust a site I don't know very well with my credit card number for example. And not everything that's worthwhile gets playlisted by an "A-list DJ" so to speak. It'd be pretty boring and generic if everyone played the exact same stuff as Armin all the time for example (not that that doesn't happen enough as is).

Very simple formula here:

More money = more time spent producing
Less money = less time spent producing

The less money producers get the less time they will be able to focus on producing quality tracks because they have to get their income from elsewhere.

Heres something you groupies dont understand

No promtoer wants to book a Trance DJ/Producer that isnt huge already

Its very very rare, no one gives 2 shits that you have a track on some shit label or even a good label, unless you made hits, hits are something that LOTS of DJ's around the world play.


There will be no point of making tracks if producers and labels didnt make money of them , anyone who thinks otherwise is down right stupid.

And that kind of attitude is whats wrong with Trance these days and why no one gives a shit about it anymore

I thought this was a question about what artists usually make more on, gigs or productions... but it turned out to be a ghey thread.


oh well

quote:

Originally posted by djtroa Some type of motivation? That's funny. I thought if you produce music, you're motivation was to want to touch peoples lives with it and to also just make a great track, not for the cash.

Indeed but equitment doesn't come cheap. The rent still needs to paid and if someone has spent years learning their skills why shouldn't they get some return in that?

off topic:

Tayfoon this is ridiculous!

F**K Me Im Famous @ Mansion - 23rd
World Session @ Klub- 24th
Playing @ Cocoon Showcase @ Nocturnal- 26th
Playing @ Robots @ B.E.D-27th
Size Vs. Refune- 28th

quote:

Originally posted by iammesol off topic: Tayfoon this is ridiculous! F**K Me Im Famous @ Mansion - 23rd World Session @ Klub- 24th Playing @ Cocoon Showcase @ Nocturnal- 26th Playing @ Robots @ B.E.D-27th Size Vs. Refune- 28th

Why thank you

see you at one of em maybe !

Deejays are nice people but they need to make a living like the rest of us and people seem to neglect that this is their job. Some techno deejay (whose name escapes me) plays in Latin America for free at times, so people can hear his music. Nick Warren used to play at a club for free once a month (see GU024 notes), as long as his fee was being used to better the club.

If I was a deejay, I'd do some nice things but profit drives things and they need to make a fucking living, even if they make outrageous sums of money. I work for a retail chain in Canada, people forget that we are not charity, we need to make profit to keep our jobs (all 30,000 of us nation wide).

You can only be nice so much and then people take that for granted.

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