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-- Religion Of Peace?
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Originally posted by digitul punk Well in that case Jesus was a pussy and he was gay..

wow. He was a pussy because He did not advocate violence against those who did not agree with Him?? He was gay because he did not have wives?? i dont see how that follows my logic of : "muhammed was a murderer because he killed his enemies"

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Note here that I'm only mocking your logic and by no way am I disrespecting your religion..

i simply stated facts from various sources about the actions of muhammed, such as killing, raiding, many different wives, all immoral acts, and that is the founder of islam!

hate website? its a website for people who have left islam partly because they realized who the founder was. those were just historical facts, muslim scholars can deny or excuse them all they want.

The thing with faith is, since it doesn't really have any substance itself, it has a way of taking the shape of whatever container your pour it into.

The problem is not Islam, it is the individuals themselves.

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Originally posted by sponger wow. He was a pussy because He did not advocate violence against those who did not agree with Him?? He was gay because he did not have wives?? i dont see how that follows my logic of : "muhammed was a murderer because he killed his enemies" i simply stated facts from various sources about the actions of muhammed, such as killing, raiding, many different wives, all immoral acts, and that is the founder of islam! hate website? its a website for people who have left islam partly because they realized who the founder was. those were just historical facts, muslim scholars can deny or excuse them all they want.

Okay so you are gonna believe a bunch of people who got online and claimed to be ex-muslims and started posted all kinds of random shit that you and them both like to call "FACTS" instead of referring to an Islamic author or a scholar who have basically spent most of their lives doing what they do.. which happens to be research?

And on top of that you are arguing with a Muslim about his religion and calling his FACTS bullshit... ignorance really must be a bliss to you.

And to those who care.. checkout "No God But God" by Reza Aslan - He was featured on Bill Mahr recently and this book looks really promising not to forget the fact that it's got really good reviews.
http://www.rezaaslan.com/

That's because all those muslims facts ARE bullshit. how can you still defend muhamad being a prophet with all the shit from his life? lol. at least they should've removed all that from texts like Jesus late teens and 20's, that way the image of holyness is there.

but nope, let's leave it all in there so if one looks deep enough he sees it to be a satan worshiping faith.

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Originally posted by Lepanto That's because all those muslims facts ARE bullshit. how can you still defend muhamad being a prophet with all the shit from his life? lol. at least they should've removed all that from texts like Jesus late teens and 20's, that way the image of holyness is there. but nope, let's leave it all in there so if one looks deep enough he sees it to be a satan worshiping faith.

Dude seriously find a job or something... Your not worth my time.

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Originally posted by digitul punk Youre not worth my time.

i like you please come back often.

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Originally posted by digitul punk Okay so you are gonna believe a bunch of people who got online and claimed to be ex-muslims and started posted all kinds of random shit that you and them both like to call "FACTS" instead of referring to an Islamic author or a scholar who have basically spent most of their lives doing what they do.. which happens to be research? And on top of that you are arguing with a Muslim about his religion and calling his FACTS bullshit... ignorance really must be a bliss to you. And to those who care.. checkout "No God But God" by Reza Aslan - He was featured on Bill Mahr recently and this book looks really promising not to forget the fact that it's got really good reviews. http://www.rezaaslan.com/

do you not believe that they are ex muslims? you can't even refute the arguments they make! you even admitted it when you said this:

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No. On the contrary.. If you take a look at Muhammad's (pbuh) you'll find that he never waged a war in the name of Islam.. sure there was wars but all of them were due to the fact that people hated him for being so prosperous hence most of the wars he fought was for his own and his people's safety

so he did fight wars, killed, raided, etc.
and

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and as for the jewish tribe .. common are you not gonna expell a tribe out of your city because they were umm let's say... your enemies?

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True he married many women after the death of Khadija.. and wrong again.. he had 12 wives.

i mean you made my point for me. he was no where near holy! when did i say your facts were bullshit? you didnt even present any facts. as far as the "facts" go, its not just that website that says that, those are general facts of his life from different historical sources!! do muslim scholars deny the fact he fought wars and killed his enemies and that he had multiple wives? NO. They excuse those actions!

Here's your religion of peace. Let's crush kids arms for stealing bread.

http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1...ed_for_Stealing

You guys still don't see the big picture. The countries that have religiously based governments don't do very well because people never agree on anything and most of their decisions are based solely on their faith rather than reason. People will always have differing views an their own interpretations on religion. Just take a look at this thread alone as an example.

Other countries who advocate religious freedom and separation between church and state are way more peaceful. Simply put don't create a government based on religion. Keep that stuff away from politics.

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Originally posted by digitul punk Dude seriously find a job or something... Your not worth my time.

yeah awesome comeback defending your dinky attempt to a claim that is both irretional and simply isn't so . BTW, you're also a dumbfuck because of the way you speak of Jesus since he's a major part of your "religion" as well

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Originally posted by Shakka Here's your religion of peace. Let's crush kids arms for stealing bread. http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1...ed_for_Stealing

k....that's fucked up...

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Originally posted by Shakka Here's your religion of peace. Let's crush kids arms for stealing bread. http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1...ed_for_Stealing

i think theres a pretty blurry line between religion and religiously-affected culture, too blurry to be blaming that all on the religion. and look at all the damage (as i see it) that the religious right do in america. its what religion does.

people can justify terrible actions by claming some higher moral authority, the authority that god gives them. just coz some of the negative consequences are sometimes more obvious and overt doesnt make islam any better/worse/different from any of the other categories. it can be interpreted however it wants by whomever wishes to interpret it. its the perfect form of social control.

i do think its great that scientology was created by a sci-fi/fantasy author. that speaks *volumes* for all religions on earth imo

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i think theres a pretty blurry line between religion and religiously-affected culture, too blurry to be blaming that all on the religion. and look at all the damage (as i see it) that the religious right do in america. its what religion does. people can justify terrible actions by claming some higher moral authority, the authority that god gives them. just coz some of the negative consequences are sometimes more obvious and overt doesnt make islam any better/worse/different from any of the other categories. it can be interpreted however it wants by whomever wishes to interpret it. its the perfect form of social control.

Tell me, how many other religions justify running over a kid's arm...seriously...

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Tell me, how many other religions justify running over a kid's arm...seriously...

Okay that video was FUCKED up and second I don't believe that video.. according to the laws in Iran there's no way in hell that shit would happen. I've been to Iran and I know how it is down there. See that's what I'm trying to tell you guys.. you cannot believe anything and everything out there to be "MUSLIM" facts and figures.. just because this kid has his arm under a wheel of a car or a truck doesn't mean he's muslim, he's getting punished for stealing BREAD! For fuck's sake it could be in India for that matter.. you have no idea what kinda sick trickery people do to make money in India. Just because he's BROWN doesn't mean he's a MUSLIM and just because the video says so doesn't mean it's true. Some people take the internet wayyyy tooo seriously yet they would not refer to an informed source for reference. Seriously is it really that hard to digest? Is it really that hard to believe that it could part of a propoganda or hate?

And btw Sponger just because YOU think they are fact doesn't mean they are. Again you are entitled to your own opinions no matter how fucked up they are. Look me up when u mature mentally.

And Lepanto what are you 13?

Although there are a couple of people here that are realize where I'm going with this.. you know who you are.

If i'm 13, than you haven't even been pre-concieved yet . Give it up already.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Tell me, how many other religions justify running over a kid's arm...seriously...

please go find me the definitive text from the koran that states "thieving children shall be brutalised by truck or car" and then you'll have an argument

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Originally posted by Arbiter The problem is not Islam, it is the individuals themselves.

Agree. Personally, I despise organized religion, including that of my family.
Why should I respect Islam? I have yet to see any reason why I should feel that being Muslim is some kind of positive characteristic? I have much respect for shaolin_z, guys like Naser Khader, and somewhat for digital_phunk, but apparently the *vast* majority of Muslims are either
- psychos
- willing pawns of psychos
- cowards unwilling to clearly reject fundamentalism, including naming Hamas, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Hibu-Tahrir, and the Islamic Brotherhood as enemies of human kind.
I repeat, I see *no* reason - whatsoever - for respecting muslims a priori. I don't give a flying f*ck about Muhammed, and how he chose to live his life, what kind of environment he played his role in, and what it says in the Quran. Similarly I couldn't care less about Christianity, its founder, how Dan Brown has it all figured out, and it's terrible role throughout the dark ages. What matters to me is how things are today. When I look at those who call themselves Muslims today, I have yet to find anything worthy of admiration springin from that very trait. Those of you with the humanistic worldview, please enlighten me.

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Originally posted by sponger wow. He was a pussy because He did not advocate violence against those who did not agree with Him?? He was gay because he did not have wives?? i dont see how that follows my logic of : "muhammed was a murderer because he killed his enemies"

For the first (and probably last) time: You're making a reasonable argument smoke-ape.

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Originally posted by trancaholic Agree. Personally, I despise organized religion, including that of my family. Why should I respect Islam? I have yet to see any reason why I should feel that being Muslim is some kind of positive characteristic? I have much respect for shaolin_z, guys like Naser Khader, and somewhat for digital_phunk, but apparently the *vast* majority of Muslims are either - psychos - willing pawns of psychos - cowards unwilling to clearly reject fundamentalism, including naming Hamas, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Hibu-Tahrir, and the Islamic Brotherhood as enemies of human kind. I repeat, I see *no* reason - whatsoever - for respecting muslims a priori. I don't give a flying f*ck about Muhammed, and how he chose to live his life, what kind of environment he played his role in, and what it says in the Quran. Similarly I couldn't care less about Christianity, its founder, how Dan Brown has it all figured out, and it's terrible role throughout the dark ages. What matters to me is how things are today. When I look at those who call themselves Muslims today, I have yet to find anything worthy of admiration springin from that very trait. Those of you with the humanistic worldview, please enlighten me.

You ever lived amongst muslims to judge that they are psychos? I however do see where you are coming from.

Let me remind all of you that there is no HISTORICAL FACT that jesus actually existed.

I cant believe i'm doing this...

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Originally posted by trewqy Let me remind all of you that there is no HISTORICAL FACT that jesus actually existed. I cant believe i'm doing this...

yeah and that goes AGAINST islam as well

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Originally posted by stevieboy32808 You guys still don't see the big picture. The countries that have religiously based governments don't do very well because people never agree on anything and most of their decisions are based solely on their faith rather than reason. People will always have differing views an their own interpretations on religion. Just take a look at this thread alone as an example. Other countries who advocate religious freedom and separation between church and state are way more peaceful. Simply put don't create a government based on religion. Keep that stuff away from politics.

quote:

Originally posted by stevieboy32808 You guys still don't see the big picture. The countries that have religiously based governments don't do very well because people never agree on anything and most of their decisions are based solely on their faith rather than reason. People will always have differing views an their own interpretations on religion. Just take a look at this thread alone as an example. Other countries who advocate religious freedom and separation between church and state are way more peaceful. Simply put don't create a government based on religion. Keep that stuff away from politics.

Unfortunately, alot of Republicans want to create a government based on Religion, even though when they get the chance to govern, they dont follow the rules of Christianity themselves. Seriously, if Pat Robertson had become president in 1988, women would be put to death by stoning for not being properly covered in public, so I really dont see how the far right wing pentacostal movement is much different ( other than having less political power ) from Al Queda, especially when they were bombing abortion clinics in the 1980s.

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Originally posted by Shamen DJ's Unfortunately, alot of Republicans want to create a government based on Religion,

no offence, but thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN please go find me the definitive text from the koran that states "thieving children shall be brutalised by truck or car" and then you'll have an argument

well, I think it's fair to say there's a lot more to religion than its founding book. A lot of cultural factors integrate themselves into religion. Where in the bible does it say a LOT of things about the catholic church rituals? Well it doesn't, but that doesn't mean its not part of the religion.

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Originally posted by Sunsnail well, I think it's fair to say there's a lot more to religion than its founding book. A lot of cultural factors integrate themselves into religion. Where in the bible does it say a LOT of things about the catholic church rituals? Well it doesn't, but that doesn't mean its not part of the religion.

That doesn't apply to Islam. Islam is defined by the Quran only. Culture is completely irrelevant.

EDIT: Plus there is no heirarchical structure (like the church) in Islam. So the "church" (which does't exist) cannot make changes or amenmant to the Quran (infact, it kinda like blasphemy to do so). But there is plenty of room for interpretation.

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