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-- incompetent professors, tenure, and America's declining standards of education...
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Solution: Read your own books about the subject matter and ask difficult questions and pwn her in class.

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Originally posted by _Nut_ But when your job requires you to know historical events... the 700+ that you paid for that class would be pointless. In your idea, why even goto school?

simple.

to make more money in the long run. most jobs these days recquire a bachlors degree and i don't plan on being a bum doing construction or whatever jobs that are out there that don't recquire a degree.

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Originally posted by sot simple. to make more money in the long run. most jobs these days recquire a bachlors degree and i don't plan on being a bum doing construction or whatever jobs that are out there that don't recquire a degree.

The average garbage man makes more than the average teacher.

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Originally posted by DJ RJT The average garbage man makes more than the average teacher.

They gotta give them SOME incentive to do that shit

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Originally posted by DJ RJT Professors should not be held to a different standard than any other educator.

professors aren't just "any other educator"; if they were, they wouldn't need doctorates and wouldn't face the pressure to publish books, articles and present at conferences.

maybe your prof. did get lazy after tenure -- i'm sure many of us have seen it happen. the importance of tenure, however, easily dwarfs the teaching habits of one subpar instructor. if you're unfamiliar with why tenure exists, read up on its german origins (lehrfreiheit) or its appearance in american universities following a 19th c. controversy at stanford.

i'm not sure where you go to school, but at most level a-1 research universities, a professor's primary responsibility is to her own research, department, and graduate students. if you want to go to a school where undergraduate teaching is valued most, try a smaller liberal arts college.

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Originally posted by DJ RJT The average garbage man makes more than the average teacher.

that is true. i don't plan on being a teacher. in all honesty, i could probably never be one. just not in me. i'm in it to make decent living and keeping my options open. best way in my eyes, get a degree.

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Originally posted by Konijn i'm not sure where you go to school, but at most level a-1 research universities, a professor's primary responsibility is to her own research, department, and graduate students. if you want to go to a school where undergraduate teaching is valued most, try a smaller liberal arts college.

Yeah... that's where I am.

She isn't a researcher. She isn't well published. And she's teaching two courses this semester.

She heads no committee. She's listed as the adviser not only to no club or student organization, but also isn't a student advisor.

If you're going to try and tell me that, in this case, her tenure is more important than my education, then we'll disagree to the end.

Edit: And for the record, you're taking my comment on "any other educator" out of context. If you feel that professors are in fact educators of any sort, then they should be held to the same basic standards as all educators. If you can't hack your research/writing on top of your student/course load that's your own fault, and students shouldn't suffer for it.

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Originally posted by DJ RJT The average garbage man makes more than the average teacher.

not in college though. a phd gets you around $100k even in a shitty college.

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Originally posted by DJ RJT Yeah... that's where I am. She isn't a researcher. She isn't well published. And she's teaching two courses this semester. She heads no committee. She's listed as the adviser not only to no club or student organization, but also isn't a student advisor. If you're going to try and tell me that, in this case, her tenure is more important than my education, then we'll disagree to the end.

you should grade her really bad at the end of the semester and ask you classmates to do the same, to make her go under the educational review. but yeah, if such a professor has a tenure at a top college, than it's a shame.

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Originally posted by Jocker not in college though. a phd gets you around $100k even in a shitty college.

No, it doesn't. There's a floor full of professors in their offices directly above me who would certainly love to be seeing their $100k.

Pay is relative to a lot of variables, a doctorate does not simply get you a $100k paycheck.

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Originally posted by DJ RJT If you're going to try and tell me that, in this case, her tenure is more important than my education, then we'll disagree to the end.

her tenure might not be more important than your education but tenure writ large is.

having a shitty teacher at a liberal arts school is indeed a shame as it kind of defeats the purpose of the school...

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Originally posted by Jocker not in college though. a phd gets you around $100k even in a shitty college.

nope - like someone said, it depends on what you're teaching, where, and what you've published, but most professors are only making marginally more than high school teachers with comparable years of teaching.

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Originally posted by Konijn her tenure might not be more important than your education but tenure writ large is. having a shitty teacher at a liberal arts school is indeed a shame as it kind of defeats the purpose of the school...

Exactly my point, and while I agree with you completely on the importance of tenure, specifically in relation to the research done at larger universities, unfortunately I feel perhaps a re-evaluation of the definition of tenure in the current system is perhaps warranted.

Our contitution allows for ammendments to increase the effectiveness of law, I guess I feel that when a significant enough number of cases like this appear in an arrangement (which I think is more common than it should be), perhaps a new analysis of any system is necessary.

/soapboxing...

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Originally posted by Konijn nope - like someone said, it depends on what you're teaching, where, and what you've published, but most professors are only making marginally more than high school teachers with comparable years of teaching.

hmmm. maybe so... but it isn't $50k either. on our department back in college almost everyone (hearsay, ofcourse) got 100 or around that figure

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Originally posted by Jocker hmmm. maybe so... but it isn't $50k either. on our department back in college almost everyone (hearsay, ofcourse) got 100 or around that figure

You see but it is. Average professor pay here is most likely between $50-$70K/year.

We're also in Wisconsin, it doesn't cost $100K a year to live here.

Re: incompetent professors, tenure, and America's declining standards of education...

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Originally posted by DJ RJT - Exams consisting of 120 trivia questions. There is no testing of comprehension, only ones ability to remember asinine dates and names for one day.

yeah, that's the kind of BS you have to put up w/ in a general 100 level class. like one of those random electives that half the student population takes. i hate it when that happens tho - because they ask crap on miniscule things when really the class should be about the broader picture.

sucks that you have to deal w/ that in a 300 class.

do you have this lady for any future classes? i hope not.

Re: Re: incompetent professors, tenure, and America's declining standards of education...

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Originally posted by tubularbills do you have this lady for any future classes? i hope not.

Naw, thank god!

Re: Re: Re: incompetent professors, tenure, and America's declining standards of educ

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Originally posted by DJ RJT Naw, thank god!

good. then unfortunately all you can do is suck it up, do the class, and get it over with. then at the end, write her up one horrible review [do you guys do that? those anonymous reviews?]. generally they don't mean anything, but it is nice to let it all out on paper and turn it in. haha

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Originally posted by Jocker hmmm. maybe so... but it isn't $50k either. on our department back in college almost everyone (hearsay, ofcourse) got 100 or around that figure

again it depends on the prestige of school, quality of life in a city, etc. in my undergrad school (underfunded mediocre public college) average pay for a fully tenured professor was in the high 60s-low 70s [same as what high school teacher with comparable experience is making); in my grad school (prestigious private univ.) the average full prof. makes 120k.

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Originally posted by DJ RJT You see but it is. Average professor pay here is most likely between $50-$70K/year. We're also in Wisconsin, it doesn't cost $100K a year to live here.

heh... didn't know about it. i retract my statements then. but this is strange (about cost of living), cause i had the bachelors in a college in mississippi, which is probably the cheapest state to live in (or at least in the vanguard things like that). now i guess they're waaaay overpaid

slam her against the wall and fuck her. at least you'll something out of it

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Originally posted by DjConfessions slam her against the wall and fuck her. at least you'll something out of it

noplz.

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Originally posted by DJ RJT noplz.

i was gonna post "big fucking surprise", but then again i watched too much Crash

with that kind of hair, she has to be a genius

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