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-- Iran Joins Nuclear Club
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Originally posted by josh4 If Iran shows this much disregard for the sanctions placed on them, then yes it is enough to be worried and not trust them - especially when we're talking about nuclear activity.

i totally agree. as previously stated, if their aims are civil, not military, why isnt there a higher degree of transparency?

in my local paper it was printed iran is planning to build 54,000 centrifuges, which seems to meet the requirement of

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It takes thousands operating continuously for a year to have major output and 10,000s to get seriously into the weapons grade production.

not that my local paper is the greatest news source on earth or anything

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN not that my local paper is the greatest news source on earth or anything

no, it's breaking news. some General Dipshit said it on there government run TV show. 3000 centrifuges by the end of the year with a 54,000 unit goal.

the numbers are arbitrary if you ask me. if Pakistan can do it from scratch inside a decade then Iran, with all their cash and A-Queer Khan, can do it much faster.

I really don't think Iran will ever get to have this technology which is a shame for the Iranian people.

Currently the US is completing a massive ordinance, I believe is called "Big Blue." It can penetrate into reinforced concrete and destroy bunkers at depths of 60m. This means the US can bomb the research bunkers w/o using nukes. If Iran gets close to to having enough rods for a bomb, the US is obviously going to bomb them or let Israel bomb them.

On the subject of Iran not using the weapon on Israel because of the consequences: I don't think Israel or the US would retaliate with nukes. They wouldn't want to kill random civilians. A ground invasion would surely follow with collateral civilian deaths but theres no way an array of nukes would fall on the Iranian people. Their president knows this, so for him to basically destroy Israel with the consequence of an occupation which would probably be lifted after years of Iranian insurgency isn't that far fetched.

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Originally posted by Dopey If Iran gets close to to having enough rods for a bomb

rods?

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Originally posted by Q5echo rods?

sorry enriches enough uranium...i guess iran doesnt dabble in plutonium yet? whatever its all the same death

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Originally posted by habsfan Look Raistlin (good name btw), I know more nukes is a bad thing. But I think people need to put themselves in Iran's shoes. You're Iran. The US has been meddling in your affairs for 50 years, they invade your neighbour, prop up a puppet regime to serve their interest, claim that YOU are in the "axis of evil", and start spurting out loads of propaganda that you're developing nukes, support terrorists, want to destroy Israel, etc. This is all leading to something isn't it? There's a reason behind it. They want something - whether that something is oil, dollar hegemony, so-called "stability" in the region, whatever. They are preparing the American public just like they prepared them for Iraq. So if you were Iran, you look at history. You see what's happened. You know where you stand. Wouldn't YOU want a deterrent. Something, anything to avoid getting trampled? Yes, nukes are bad, but what else would deter the US? Again, I'm not advocating nuclear proliferation. I'm simply asking you to step back, and look at it through Iran's point of view.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Iran is literelly fed up with all the US tamperings it tries to do to Iran (which they fail miserably i might add) but the problem is that alot of people just do not understand this. I mean there is just heaps of stupid people on this board that are just over confident over Americas stand that they even back the Bush administration to thinking military action is necessary when they literelly don't know much about Iran, and why Iran is so fed up with Israel and its puppet America.

The history and the cover ups America and Israel do towards Iran are pretty dark. The problem is that heaps of Iranians know this, many other countries know this.

Secrets, secrets are what is making Iran so furious, One example is the Shah Reza's death. In wikipedia, everywhere they mention he died with a heart attack or a sudden health problem, the real truth was he was murdered by the British government, now thats just one example of cover-ups they do to give a different story to the world public. There is so much more meddling US, Israel, Britain do in Iranian affairs that this whole nuclear conflict is not suprising.

Another big situation in which every single Iranian knows is how the mullahs came into power, through US and British cooperation. It was said and many people know this as a power to weaken the Iranian people. It seemed to have back-fired in America and Britians face when the Iranian people broke through that and stood up to them, resulting in all the bullying, terrorist name calling and all the mumbo jumbo you hear on TV.

Mohammed Mossadegh was also another leader before Shah Reza, he was murdered because he gave all the profits of oil back to it's people. It was said he was killed by Shah Reza's father who was helping Britain. When Britian appointed Shah Reza, he was fine until he wanted to help the people and again resulting in his murder by Britain.

Seriously if people really believe that America, Israel and Britain are the victims in this game, your dead wrong.

There is much more consipiracies that are going on and is the backbone to all the fire that rages in Iran towards the west.

quote:

Originally posted by Lemonad Couldn't have said it better myself, Iran is literelly fed up with all the US tamperings it tries to do to Iran (which they fail miserably i might add) but the problem is that alot of people just do not understand this. I mean there is just heaps of stupid people on this board that are just over confident over Americas stand that they even back the Bush administration to thinking military action is necessary when they literelly don't know much about Iran, and why Iran is so fed up with Israel and its puppet America. The history and the cover ups America and Israel do towards Iran are pretty dark. The problem is that heaps of Iranians know this, many other countries know this. Secrets, secrets are what is making Iran so furious, One example is the Shah Reza's death. In wikipedia, everywhere they mention he died with a heart attack or a sudden health problem, the real truth was he was murdered by the British government, now thats just one example of cover-ups they do to give a different story to the world public. There is so much more meddling US, Israel, Britain do in Iranian affairs that this whole nuclear conflict is not suprising. Another big situation in which every single Iranian knows is how the mullahs came into power, through US and British cooperation. It was said and many people know this as a power to weaken the Iranian people. It seemed to have back-fired in America and Britians face when the Iranian people broke through that and stood up to them, resulting in all the bullying, terrorist name calling and all the mumbo jumbo you hear on TV. Mohammed Mossadegh was also another leader before Shah Reza, he was murdered because he gave all the profits of oil back to it's people. It was said he was killed by Shah Reza's father who was helping Britain. When Britian appointed Shah Reza, he was fine until he wanted to help the people and again resulting in his murder by Britain. Seriously if people really believe that America, Israel and Britain are the victims in this game, your dead wrong. There is much more consipiracies that are going on and is the backbone to all the fire that rages in Iran towards the west.

wow awesome reply.you nailed it.

I have a feeling that most people here will call you names and wont believe what you saying.All those things that you mentioned above are real facts and every Iranian knows this.
America Fucked Iran many times in the past and now Iran is standing up and defending their rights.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer wow

shut up.

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Originally said by Habsfan start spurting out loads of propaganda that you're developing nukes, support terrorists, want to destroy Israel, etc.

you may have had a point if none of that "propaganda" wasn't true.

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Originally posted by Q5echo shut up.

Brilliant response . Out of all the regulars, you make the least sense and resort to personal attacks or rudeness.

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Originally posted by Q5echo you may have had a point if none of that "propaganda" wasn't true.

Propoganda? You mean like your ever so dear leader Bush and the rest of his administration?

quote:

Originally posted by Lemonad Mohammed Mossadegh was also another leader before Shah Reza, he was murdered because he gave all the profits of oil back to it's people. It was said he was killed by Shah Reza's father who was helping Britain. When Britian appointed Shah Reza, he was fine until he wanted to help the people and again resulting in his murder by Britain.

so, after being tried for treason, sentenced to 3 years in prison and placed under house arrest when he was released, the british govt only then bothered to murder him? if you say so. the guy was almost 85 years old and i love it how youre ruling out natural causes.

instead of spilling verbal garbage how about you provide some links and support for your argument. forgive me if i dont take what youre saying at face value.

also, to debunk the main theory of your argument, trying to get nuclear weapons is only going to make the west more, rather than less, interested in manipulating iranian affairs. also, lets say they have a bomb, what exactly are they going to do with it if the US decides to attack?

oh, the other thing im tired of hearing is everyone whinge about the west like theyre the only govt ever to meddle in places theyre not wanted. grow the fuck up children. international politics is a dirty dirty game, and no one has clean hands. just coz uzbekistan doesnt receive anywhere near the amount of scrutiny that the US does doesnt mean theyre not up to something.

you know what, im tired of my next door neighbours telling me to turn my music down when im mixing, im gonna go buy a gun so they keep their nose out of my business. nothing like the rationality of violence.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Propoganda? You mean like your ever so dear leader Bush and the rest of his administration?

for a second there i remembered you saying something about substance.

whatever. so i am to understand that Iran does not export jihad globally, does not want Israel vaporized, and most likely, does not want to follow in the footsteps of Pakistan? is that the real truth behind the "propaganda"?

please, correct me if i'm wrong?

actually don't. i want to hear it from the guy that said...

quote:

The US has been meddling in your affairs for 50 years, they invade your neighbour, prop up a puppet regime to serve their interest, claim that YOU are in the "axis of evil", and start spurting out loads of propaganda that you're developing nukes, support terrorists, want to destroy Israel, etc.

Isn't Iran in bed with Hezbollah?

quote:

Originally posted by Lemonad Another big situation in which every single Iranian knows is how the mullahs came into power, through US and British cooperation. It was said and many people know this as a power to weaken the Iranian people. It seemed to have back-fired in America and Britians face when the Iranian people broke through that and stood up to them, resulting in all the bullying, terrorist name calling and all the mumbo jumbo you hear on TV.

forgive me while i try to wrap my brain around this: so you're saying that Thatcher and Carter were behind the revolution that put the Ahyatollah in power, right? to marginalize the true feelings of the people towards the theocratic regime? and now it's back-fired?

quote:

Mohammed Mossadegh was also another leader before Shah Reza, he was murdered because he gave all the profits of oil back to it's people. It was said he was killed by Shah Reza's father who was helping Britain. When Britian appointed Shah Reza, he was fine until he wanted to help the people and again resulting in his murder by Britain.

...and the Brits killed the Shah?

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Originally posted by tiesto14 Isn't Iran in bed with Hezbollah?

Iran is Hezbollah. Hezbolla is Iran

it's the armed hand of the Mullahs

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Originally posted by Q5echo Iran is Hezbollah. Hezbolla is Iran it's the armed hand of the Mullahs

ya but arent they terrorists?

yeah

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Originally posted by Q5echo yeah

well if Iran is Hezbollah. Hezbolla is Iran and it's the armed hand of the Mullahs, like you say...why is everyone bitching? Do these people want terrorists with nukes?. It's so silly how much these kids on here hate America.

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 well if Iran is Hezbollah. Hezbolla is Iran and it's the armed hand of the Mullahs, like you say...why is everyone bitching? Do these people want terrorists with nukes?. It's so silly how much these kids on here hate America.

What's scarier is this liberal belief that nukes in the hands of a mad-man only makes things 'globally fair' and then in the same breath, turn around and blame the West because of it...

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 It's so silly how much these kids on here hate America.

yeah, im hardly mr american lover, but its ridiculous to suggest america's meddling in the middle east is justification for developing nuclear weapons.

and people seem to forget its not just america that are against it. i guarantee you the other countries in the region wont be happy either if 5 years from now iran is conducting nuclear tests.

Iran needs to be stopped now and not just by the U.S. Iran is a dangerous country that supports terrorism, threatens to destroy Israel, and let's not forget the American hostages taken in the late 1970's.

If ever there was a country to be attacked for having WMD's, then Iran is it. The President even admits openly about nuclear capabilities and ignores the U.N. telling them not to expand their nuclear testing.

I think my little nephew can sum up this arguement like this:

MY NEPHEW:: Why does the news say we might go to war with Iran?
ME:: Because Iran might make missiles that can kill millions of people and they hate us and Israel and are involved with terrorists.
MY NEPHEW:: So they are bad guys, like on TV?
ME:: Yes!!
MY NEPHEW:: Well bad guys shouldnt have missiles like that.

And he is 7!

Seems like HardCore and the rest of people who are opposing this are just riding on the America is evil and Bush is Hitler band wagon. It is so chic to hate America right now so they feel they are in the know..what i like to call a trend follower..and they call us sheep? HA!

Funny thing is, if this was the almighty Clinton proposing this they would rally behind him and support it 100%....it is so sickening.

Then you'll love this tiesto14...

quote:

Apparently some on the left are mobilizing to prevent military action against the U.S.-hating, terrorist-sponsoring, genocide-threatening, Nuke-seeking, Holocaust-denying, homosexual-executing theocrats of the Islamic Republic of Iran. From Little Green Footballs: Moonbats Launch Preemptive Anti-War Petition Mama Moonbat: Let Iran Get Nukes And at The Huffington Post, Bill Scher advises the left to start Reframing The Iran Debate. This is a must-read for seeing how far the "anti-war" left will go to evade the reality what kind of regime is confronting us. Excerpts: So far, the neoconservatives have done a good job of re-running their Iraq playbook and framing discussion on Iran, by laying out these premises: 1. Iran is close to getting nukes. 2. Iran's President is crazy and irrational and committed to wiping Israel off the map. He can't be reasoned with. 3. Bush is trying real super hard to get the UN to do something about it, but if they won't... If we are to have any hope of preventing a senseless war with Iran, we cannot accept this frame. If all of the above points are reported as fact and accepted by Americans across the ideological spectrum, anti-war arguments will be seen as knee-jerk, immature and reckless, and not get a fair hearing. In turn, Democrats in Congress will get steamrolled again. How can we reframe the discussion? Our arguments should flow from the following framework: 1. Iran presently has a strong, rational incentive to get nukes. ... 2. Iran has acted rationally and can be reasoned with. ... 3. There is plenty of time to negotiate. ...

>>Source<<

lol yes that was great....bookmarked that site for future reads. thanks...

i like this one..lol

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