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-- mixing bass lines
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Just to add another 2c to the kitty..

If no external device is used, so basically if 2 turntables/cdj's and a mixer are used. I don't think the term cheating can ever be used.

nelly

quote:

Originally posted by alefort wtf? All these responses are bogus, sorry. Myself, and all my close friends constantly mix with the basslines at normal EQ levels. We have had no problems, the basslines don't DOUBLE in volume, when overlayed frequencies do not add up, they simply lay on top of each other. So in the end, most Basslines are 'engulfed' by another bassline as they usually fit within each other. This strikes me as weird that some people kill the bassline in one song and then switch at some point, to be quite frank, that will only work if the two basslines are EXACTLY the same. Quite frankly, if you cannot mix basslines, there is something fundamental missing in your learning steps.

This could sound really bad...
However in defence of this guy there is a way that you can mix using just the gains or upfaders and still make it pretty smooth. So don't knock it.
You don't get the same level of flow from a mix like that, but remember that way back in the day when grandpa Nem started, mixers didn't have EQs, most mixers did'n't even have high and low on the master output.
Since then mixing techniques have changed and ultimatelly got much better, why limit yourself to doing something that just sounds alright. You wont set the world of DJing on fire that's for sure.

The key to this however is that you always have to have one of the tracks much lower in the mix than the other in terms of volume.

The use of EQ has opened up mixing styles and made the flow of a mix much better.

Theory:
Technical reasons why mixing with Bass EQ on full is actually not good.
Phase cancellation is your worst friend. If you have matching or similar frequencies in a kick or a bassline they will start to cancell eachother out. If the waveforms are playing at exactly the opposite cycle you will get almost complete cancellation of sound from that element. This is true for both Kick and Bass.

With basslines you will also find that you can generate unwanted harmonics so that the listener can actually percieve sounds that are not present in either of the original tracks. This can actually be effective as a trick but on the whole it's a hit and miss affair.

Layering two bass sounds over the top of eachother without phase cancellation will actually increase the volume of the sound and makes it more noticiable when you are actually dong a mix.

To summise:
To come onto the forum however and suggest that some of the guys around here don't know what they are talking about purely based on what you and your mates do is very bold. There is plenty of experience on this forum that will tell you otherwise.

I also find it strange that you haven't ventured into the realm of swapping basslines, but I strongly suggest you have a go as I am sure you will come away the better DJ.



Cheers
Nem

here's an audacity wave printscreen of you mix alefort.



i haven't listened to the mix, because i have something else to listen atm, but i'm guessing the transitions are where the red arrows are. as you can clearly see the levels there are much higher than anywhere else. it also seems that the sound has been clipping as the wave reaches the top even. the only explanation to these sections that i can come up with is that the sounds don't overlap like you say, but they do add up, although not double.

Damn those are really short mixes.

So is it just much better to get better at completely switching bass lines or is it okay to gradually swap like I posted before? I have to honestly say it sounds so much better when you do a clean swap but it is tough to pull of sometimes, especially when I've had a couple drinks.

It is situational, so use both. The switch at the end of a phrase is nice except for when you're a 1/4 beat too slow.

Don't do this if the setup of the tune doesn't require it.

If you really have to, kill the low.

I wasn't trying to say that my way is the ONLY way, by no means is it. There are a million and one ways to mix tracks, and in the end, so long as it sounds good, I really don't care what you did in order to do so.

Sorry if I came off a little edgey, was just trying to let everyone know that it is possible, as is just about anything else. I want to expand my knowledge and views regarding this topic, and so far this thread has proven to be a great eye opener. I hope it has been for others as well. I am still learning....as are most of us.

Oh, and skip, good eyes! Those are exactly where the mixes occur. Although the clipping is so barely noticeable to my ears, can someone else hear it?

What I have learned:

- Levels (ie: bass) do add to each other, although do not multiply. I retract my original comment in regards to this.

- There are many ways to mix into tracks, pick whatever works for you.

- Know more than one method for mixing. It will make you a better DJ and knowing is half the battle. I know I don't know many ways, and I will definitely have to improve myself in this area.

- Oh, and I should read up on some music theory as well.........

That is all...

quote:

Originally posted by Zild Damn those are really short mixes.

Fyi...

First mix: 7:04 -> 8:01 :: 57 seconds
Second mix: 13:55 -> 14:43 :: 48 seconds

Decent length I figure....

quote:

Originally posted by alefort Fyi...

Was that fy a 'fuck you'? ;D;D

Anyways, It's decent, yet somewhat short. Though I can't understand why Zild was so fussed about it, it's not THAT short.

I haven't heard the mix though, just trust alefort on his timestamps.

quote:

Originally posted by PutBoy Was that fy a 'fuck you'? ;D;D Anyways, It's decent, yet somewhat short. Though I can't understand why Zild was so fussed about it, it's not THAT short. I haven't heard the mix though, just trust alefort on his timestamps.

Don't know if that comment regarding the 'fyi' is sarcastic or not, but I would never want to offend anyone on TA () so I will clarify...

FYI = For Your Information

quote:

Originally posted by alefort Don't know if that comment regarding the 'fyi' is sarcastic or not, but I would never want to offend anyone on TA () so I will clarify... FYI = For Your Information

Oh, in that case, my appoligies (or however you spell that) ;P

quote:

Originally posted by alefort wtf? All these responses are bogus, sorry. Myself, and all my close friends constantly mix with the basslines at normal EQ levels. We have had no problems, the basslines don't DOUBLE in volume, when overlayed frequencies do not add up, they simply lay on top of each other. So in the end, most Basslines are 'engulfed' by another bassline as they usually fit within each other. This strikes me as weird that some people kill the bassline in one song and then switch at some point, to be quite frank, that will only work if the two basslines are EXACTLY the same. Quite frankly, if you cannot mix basslines, there is something fundamental missing in your learning steps.

I will agree with this post on some points, because there are ALOT of dj's out there who don't touch the base at all during a mix and JUST use the faders, and mixes still sound flawless...I think it is just a matter of style and genre in most cases.....with techno it sounds fine, but riding out a long mix and then swaping the base all of a sudden can sound very abrubt....

Iz just razzin ya guys but sometimes I mix without the EQs. Of course I can mix better with EQs, but I can mix just as good as anyone else without EQs. Hopefully it will be a Bozak though or I'll be pissed that it doesn't have EQs. If you aren't going to EQ you need to be really precise with the channel faders as most of them are exponential and have most of their fade towards the top of the fader. Rotaries make it simple.

quote:

Originally posted by alefort I wasn't trying to say that my way is the ONLY way, by no means is it. There are a million and one ways to mix tracks, and in the end, so long as it sounds good, I really don't care what you did in order to do so. Sorry if I came off a little edgey, was just trying to let everyone know that it is possible, as is just about anything else. I want to expand my knowledge and views regarding this topic, and so far this thread has proven to be a great eye opener. I hope it has been for others as well. I am still learning....as are most of us. Oh, and skip, good eyes! Those are exactly where the mixes occur. Although the clipping is so barely noticeable to my ears, can someone else hear it? What I have learned: - Levels (ie: bass) do add to each other, although do not multiply. I retract my original comment in regards to this. - There are many ways to mix into tracks, pick whatever works for you. - Know more than one method for mixing. It will make you a better DJ and knowing is half the battle. I know I don't know many ways, and I will definitely have to improve myself in this area. - Oh, and I should read up on some music theory as well......... That is all...

Cool Beans!

Nem

I have no eqs

I use an old school rotary mixer with no eqs and have no problem mixing. In the beginning I found it harder since it forces you to work on your track selection more. In the end because it forced me to think more about my track selection my sets improved.

Allen

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