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quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto no, now you are just taking shit out of context. they MUST learn English and americans know how to speak it. maybe they don't spell flavour with a U but they can at least speak with other people who speak English.

How am I taking it out of context? Shouldn't all aspects of a language be learned? Surely that's what's expected. Reading, writing, speaking, it's all important.

Maybe the Americans expect people to be fluent enough to make themselves understood and understand them. That's a bit different.

quote:

Originally posted by sensorium How am I taking it out of context? Shouldn't all aspects of a language be learned? Surely that's what's expected. Reading, writing, speaking, it's all important. Maybe the Americans expect people to be fluent enough to make themselves understood and understand them. That's a bit different.

a toothless redneck knows more English than a wetback.

Come to think of it... I guess the Brazilian anthem would be easier to understand if it were translated into English. hmmm.....

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto a toothless redneck knows more English than a wetback.

So I see you are a racist prick. I knew I was right...go join the SS!!

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto a toothless redneck knows more English than a wetback.

ah no shit sherlock...

some of you, really, at least learn the history of the English language before you start issuing insults.

if your whole argument is damn ****** or f*** ****
yeah, you are really getting your point acroos.


ps. -1 on the whole, translating the song into Spanish, but this idea was not spawned by Hispanics. Adam Kidron, not hispanic.
now, just cause he was able to convince hispanic singers, who are already TiTs by the way, to sing in his stupid project, does not mean the Hispanic community is going to support it. frankly, so far the exact opposite had been seen. so yeah...

I was wondering, is it not illegal to change your National Anthem like that??

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r I was wondering, is it not illegal to change your National Anthem like that??

Don't believe so.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Don't believe so.

I know it's illegal in some States to dance to the U.S. National Anthem while it's playing, maybe that's what I was thinking of...

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Originally posted by daydreamer ah no shit sherlock... some of you, really, at least learn the history of the English language before you start issuing insults.

\

what the fuck is your retarded ass talkin about? what does history of English, AN ANGLO-SAXON LANGUAGE, has to do with Spanish, you bleeding moron?

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto \ what the fuck is your retarded ass talkin about? what does history of English, AN ANGLO-SAXON LANGUAGE, has to do with Spanish, you bleeding moron?

Finally, a debate regarding the US that I can join!

Spanish and English aren't distant languages, unlike you might expect. First of all, they do share a common origin, having Proto-Indo-European roots (that's why you can easily recognise some numbers, and even common words, such as "night/noche" once you compare other Germanic and Romance languages).

Secondly, French has played a major role in the history of the English language and, therefore, most technical terms (and words that aren't as colloquial as their Germanic counterparts) have a Latin origin. Saying "exterminate" and "annihilate" sounds more natural to speakers of Latin languages than "kill". Thus, a "wetback", with its extent knowledge of Spanish, can by analogy trace the meaning of these words without looking up in a dictionary. English is full of such pairs ("liberty/freedom", "necessity/need", "venom/poison", "present/gift",...).

These are just the two main connections between the history of English, an Anglo-Saxon language, and Spanish. Do you want me to go on?

Blah blah blah. what the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING AT ALL?!?!?! Nothing! Russian and spanish also have similair words, what's your point? You don't have one. English is the country's de facto language. therefore bending this to suit some one else is insane.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto Blah blah blah. what the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING AT ALL?!?!?! Nothing! Russian and spanish also have similair words, what's your point? You don't have one. English is the country's de facto language. therefore bending this to suit some one else is insane.

You seem irate - are you insecure about something?

Anyway, you did ask what was the relationship between the history of English and the Spanish language, and that's exactly what I explained. Although I can understand the reasons behind it, bringing something up and then claiming it's unrelated to the discussion is not really a good way to defend your views, as you seem unstable and irrational by doing so.

As for the second half of your post, the last two sentences do bring me to a point: English is just a de facto language. You don't speak English because you're American (in case you are) - the sole reason why you speak English is because that's the language understood by those who you might need to communicate with.

Choosing to speak another language is not insane - if there's a reasonable amount of speakers of a different language, such shift is only natural. As times passes by, most descendents of the immigrants do learn the other language, as it broadens their chances of being understood outside of that group. Not all your ancestors spoke the language of the country they were at, and they only learnt another language if they had a way to do it.

By the time you push an immigrant into the status of "illegal immigrant", the whole process of integration is jeopardised, and it's natural that this individual will face more problems speaking the language of the majority. Therefore, (s)he will choose to speak the language understood by the group he belongs to.

Irate? Cause you're an idiot who rambles on about some topic that doesn't even belong? when did i ask for a history of the english and the spanish language, that i know anyway?

Yes it is insane when you change a national icon to suit the need of people who are here illegally, who are breaking the laws.

what on earth are u even talking about/for?

no, as soon as i came here me and all of my family learned English .

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto Irate? Cause you're an idiot who rambles on about some topic that doesn't even belong? when did i ask for a history of the english and the spanish language, that i know anyway? Yes it is insane when you change a national icon to suit the need of people who are here illegally, who are breaking the laws. what on earth are u even talking about/for? no, as soon as i came here me and all of my family learned English .

Lepanto,

Please understand that not everyone coming here has an attack-mode scanner, and individuals like Lira may actually be wanting to engage in a conversation that tends not to hold as much of a partisan bite as you might be used to in conversations here with folks like myself (for example). He's far from being an idiot, and he does have some points of interest that most here agree find interesting from time to time. He also was once a moderator for this forum, and may actually be a mod. somewhere else as well, so I'd be a bit more careful in calling out idiots to individuals whom you seemingly know very little about.

Just a little FYI for your sake.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Finally, a debate regarding the US that I can join! Spanish and English aren't distant languages, unlike you might expect. First of all, they do share a common origin, having Proto-Indo-European roots (that's why you can easily recognise some numbers, and even common words, such as "night/noche" once you compare other Germanic and Romance languages). Secondly, French has played a major role in the history of the English language and, therefore, most technical terms (and words that aren't as colloquial as their Germanic counterparts) have a Latin origin. Saying "exterminate" and "annihilate" sounds more natural to speakers of Latin languages than "kill". Thus, a "wetback", with its extent knowledge of Spanish, can by analogy trace the meaning of these words without looking up in a dictionary. English is full of such pairs ("liberty/freedom", "necessity/need", "venom/poison", "present/gift",...). These are just the two main connections between the history of English, an Anglo-Saxon language, and Spanish. Do you want me to go on?

PLus there's not a throw away verb like "get," in which you can use to replace half the verbs.

Heh, I'm flattered MisterOpus

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto Irate? Cause you're an idiot who rambles on about some topic that doesn't even belong? when did i ask for a history of the english and the spanish language, that i know anyway?

I'm going to answer your last question first. There was some stuff before the bit I'm now going to quote, but I don't want this post to become uselessly complicated:

quote:

Originally posted by Daydreamer some of you, really, at least learn the history of the English language before you start issuing insults.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto \ what the fuck is your retarded ass talkin about? what does history of English, AN ANGLO-SAXON LANGUAGE, has to do with Spanish, you bleeding moron?

You made this question, and had your answer. As for not belonging to this topic, I humbly know a thing of two about sociolinguistics, and about the languages mentioned here - therefore, discussing about such matter would be benefical for my understanding on the subject.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto Yes it is insane when you change a national icon to suit the need of people who are here illegally, who are breaking the laws.

So you're saying that the Spanish language, which has been present in American territory since the 16th century (that is, before the creation of the American state itself), is a official language of New Mexico and Puerto Rico, spoken by 30 million inhabitants, and even present in the names of states (such as Florida and Colorado), is exclusively a language of illegal immigrants?

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto what on earth are u even talking about/for?

Well, please re-read my posts so far. If I wasn't able to transmit my idea through them, then please tell me what it is that you don't understand, so I can make myself more clear

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto no, as soon as i came here me and all of my family learned English .

Please, allow me to ask you the following questions then:

• Where did you come from? (Ty rodils'ya v Rossii, da?)
  
• Under what circunstances did you come?
  
• How old were you?
  
• Was there any social support so you could learn English?
  

you can always count on Lira, to settle things like a gentleman.
i would have banned him already...lol
too bad, i don't mod this area.
speaking of which, i know that political forus can always
get a bit too and , but there is no reason for name calling or foul language.
let's discuss the situation at hand.
not everyone is going to be a %100 correct, and that is fine, we are human after all.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira

your ramblings, still make little sense on this topic.

Florida? Hmm yeah they don't have illegals hanging out in front of stores looking for jobs and Miami isn't filled with Cubans. I would know nothing about Florida, having lived there for 4 years.

@opus. unlike you, my life doesn't revolve around a PDD thread on a TRANCE FORUM

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto your ramblings, still make little sense on this topic.

Actually, your ramblings makes even less sense on the topic. Please, please, please, try to add something to this forum yourself instead of just complaining about everyone else.

Oh, and interesting posts Lira and nice to see you back

(Cheers, Daydreamer and St_Andrew, it's nice to see you guys as well )

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto Florida? Hmm yeah they don't have illegals hanging out in front of stores looking for jobs and Miami isn't filled with Cubans. I would know nothing about Florida, having lived there for 4 years.

Once the ideas have you (as Edgar Morin would say), no matter what I say, they filter the words being heard/read. That's analogous to a colourblind person that can't see a certain colour, as your memes are as powerful as your genes.

Your ideas have been threatened, and like organisms, they're struggling for survival. I could find another way to talk to you, but whatever it is that bothered you in this whole argument, I'm going to respect that and, instead, I'm going to simply let you know that I never said there are no Spanish-speaking individuals labelled as "illegal immigrants".

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Once the ideas have you (as Edgar Morin would say), no matter what I say, they filter the words being heard/read. That's analogous to a colourblind person that can't see a certain colour, as your memes are as powerful as your genes. Your ideas have been threatened, and like organisms, they're struggling for survival. I could find another way to talk to you, but whatever it is that bothered you in this whole argument, I'm going to respect that and, instead, I'm going to simply let you know that I never said there are no Spanish-speaking individuals labelled as "illegal immigrants".

Ideas having me? Struggling for survival? LMAO. Guy, wake up and smell the flowers, i've made no statements nor proposed any ideas on the subject. There's no way you could possibly justify translating an anthem of an Anglo nation to another language. Right then and there you're bending over backwards for them.

Furthermore, Spanish has been here since 16th century? Well, congradulations, you know that the Spanish were colonizing here first. What's your point? But wait, The Native American dielects and languages were here a couple of thousand years predating all that anyway . So, maybe using that logic reasoning we should translate the anthem to cherokee or sioux?

Please explain to me how is it beneficial to translate an anthem of a nation? So that another group (known widely to be full of illegals and everything that goes with the territory) understands it either? Do you think they really give TWO SHITS about the anthem of a nation they abuse? please, give me a break. They are no more interested in learning it as we are having them here.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto @opus. unlike you, my life doesn't revolve around a PDD thread on a TRANCE FORUM

Nor do mine, especially over the last semester. Nevertheless I do try to have a modicum level of respect for those who've been here for some time. Not that it's a necessity for such a modicum to be shared amongst others like yourself, but it is nice to have regardless.

And despite this minor point of contention, I do tend to agree with your sentiments on this issue at hand. I can't say I'm too much for a change in our National Anthem for appeal to a minority group, one that has a great many individuals residing in this country illegally. This isn't one of the more passionate issues for me on the table, but it's just my current feelings on the matter.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Nor do mine, especially over the last semester. Nevertheless I do try to have a modicum level of respect for those who've been here for some time. Not that it's a necessity for such a modicum to be shared amongst others like yourself, but it is nice to have regardless. And despite this minor point of contention, I do tend to agree with your sentiments on this issue at hand. I can't say I'm too much for a change in our National Anthem for appeal to a minority group, one that has a great many individuals residing in this country illegally. This isn't one of the more passionate issues for me on the table, but it's just my current feelings on the matter.

This issue definatly was not of much concern to me either, untill recently when the governemt actually is willing to take SOME form of action and all these protests are happening in LA that are promoting ideas such as this nation being theirs and they are tellign us to get out. that's when it gets a little heated and a tad annoying.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto Please explain to me how is it beneficial to translate an anthem of a nation?

Translating the anthem of a nation is not different from translating any given song (or film, or book,...). You transmit the same ideas to another target audience and, the more they get in touch with your ideas, the more easily they can integrate.

The actual matter is - why would it not be benefical?

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Translating the anthem of a nation is not different from translating any given song (or film, or book,...). You transmit the same ideas to another target audience and, the more they get in touch with your ideas, the more easily they can integrate. The actual matter is - why would it not be benefical?

Wrong, you're translating an idea and a symbol of one audience to an audience that is raping and abusing that culture. Yeah, i can really see how they want to be intergrated, by ONLY living in their own communities and pretty much refusing to learn English. I worked in many places where we had the same mexican or puerto rican customers who my bosses said came in for years and never know a word. Not to mention i live in NYC and went to school with many illegals who NEVER went to class much less learned the language. They could give two shits about it.

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