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quote:

Originally posted by Vizay jag f�rh�ller mig alltid v�ldigt skeptisk till konspirationsteorier och f�rs�ker ifr�gas�tta dom s� mycket som m�jligt innan jag v�ljer att tro p� dom. En sak med filmen som st�r mig �r intervjuerna dom har, hur kan man �ver huvud taget vara s�ker p� att killen p� flygst�llet d�r en av kaparna var � fl�g ens jobbar d�r? Hur kan man �ver huvud taget vara s�ker p� att vaktm�staren fr�n WTC som snackade om generatorexplosionen n�gonsin var d�r. samtidigt talar tv� saker v�ldigt tydligt f�r att n�got fuffens var i g�rningen. Explosionerna ser man klart och tydligt att de befinner sig l�ngt under raslinjen n�r byggnaderna faller samman. Dessutom styrker ber�kningen den teorin v�ldigt tydligt, det handlar om ett n�stintill fritt fall, det kan ingen neka till. Hur kan det vara s� n�r det finns s� m�nga miljoner ton st�l under raset som borde iaf. bromsa ner det hela?

Från http://www.popularmechanics.com/sci...html?page=1&c=y

quote:

Once each tower began to collapse, the weight of all the floors above the collapsed zone bore down with pulverizing force on the highest intact floor. Unable to absorb the massive energy, that floor would fail, transmitting the forces to the floor below, allowing the collapse to progress downward through the building in a chain reaction. Engineers call the process "pancaking," and it does not require an explosion to begin, according to David Biggs, a structural engineer at Ryan-Biggs Associates and a member of the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) team that worked on the FEMA report. Like all office buildings, the WTC towers contained a huge volume of air. As they pancaked, all that air--along with the concrete and other debris pulverized by the force of the collapse--was ejected with enormous energy. "When you have a significant portion of a floor collapsing, it's going to shoot air and concrete dust out the window," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder tells PM. Those clouds of dust may create the impression of a controlled demolition, Sunder adds, "but it is the floor pancaking that leads to that perception." Demolition expert Romero regrets that his comments to the Albuquerque Journal became fodder for conspiracy theorists. "I was misquoted in saying that I thought it was explosives that brought down the building," he tells PM. "I only said that that's what it looked like." Romero, who agrees with the scientific conclusion that fire triggered the collapses, demanded a retraction from the Journal. It was printed Sept. 22, 2001. "I felt like my scientific reputation was on the line." But emperors-clothes.com saw something else: "The paymaster of Romero's research institute is the Pentagon. Directly or indirectly, pressure was brought to bear, forcing Romero to retract his original statement." Romero responds: "Conspiracy theorists came out saying that the government got to me. That is the farthest thing from the truth. This has been an albatross around my neck for three years."

Sen angående att stål inte kan smälta i dom "låga" temperaturerna.

quote:

Jet fuel burns at 800� to 1500�F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750�F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks." "Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100�F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800� it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat. But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832�F. "The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

quote:

Sen är flight 93 och pentagon väldigt konstigt, framförallt flight 93 där det inte finns några vrakdelar what so ever.

Vilket är en ren lögn, många vrakdelar har hittats

Al-Quaida har aldrig tagit på sig skulden för attackerna.. de har däremot prisat dem.. det är en jävla skillnad.

Jag tror att det är pentagon som ligger bakom alltihopa, garanterat!

quote:

Originally posted by jofawe garanterat!

jag tror de va jultomten som kraschade in i wtc

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew Vilket är en ren lögn, många vrakdelar har hittats

ja och nej, det beror på vem man väljer att tro på rent vittnesmässigt.
Det finns ögonvittnet som säger både det ena och det andra.

jag väljer att basera min tro där på de bilder som faktiskt finns publicerade samt det faktum att man inte kunnat visa upp en enda crakdel av planet där man med säkerhet kan säga att det faktiskt tillhörde ett plan modell större.

Det är bara att titta på tidigare (och senare för den delen)krascher ute i ren natur, inte i ett enda fall förutom flight 93 så har vrakdelarna bara gått upp i rök och blivit totalt bortbrunna basicly.
Det beror fortfarande på att jetbränsle inte har tillräckligt hög temperatur för att smälta alla metaller i ett plan...


jag hävdar inte att jag vet sanningen, jag vill heller inte påstå att jag vet en rimlig teori till varför någon annan än Al-quaida (med risk för stavfel) skulle vilja göra något sånt här men av de bevis som lagts fram så är många väldigt tvivelaktiga.


Det är rätt intressant, normalt sett när man har att göra med en brotsling så brukar man ju säga oskyldig tills motsatsen bevisats. Motsatsen har enligt mig inte bevisats bortom rimligt tvivel men ändå väljer folk att dömma, det är ganska skrämmande.
Ta nu inte detta som att jag står bakom Usamas (eller andra terroristers) värderingar för det gör jag verkligen inte men jag tycker det är skrämmande att folk inte är mer kritiska mot "sanningen".

quote:

Originally posted by jofawe Al-Quaida har aldrig tagit på sig skulden för attackerna.. de har däremot prisat dem.. det är en jävla skillnad.

Al-Qaida tar aldrig på sig skulderna, däremot tar dom indirekt på sig skulderna. Sen finns det ju ett berömt videoband med Al Quaida, så för att citera självaste bin Laden:

"we calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy, who would be killed based on the position of the tower. We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all...We had notification since the previous Thursday that the event would take place that day. We had finished our work that day and had the radio on...Muhammad (Atta) from the Egyptian family (meaning the Al Qaida Egyptian group), was in charge of the group...The brothers, who conducted the operation, all they knew was that they have a martyrdom operation and we asked each of them to go to America but they didn't know anything about the operation, not even one letter. But they were trained and we did not reveal the operation to them until they are there and just before they boarded the planes."

Vidare har han ju i senare tal (som sänds på Al Jazeera och liknande) talat om 9/11 som att han utförde dessa. Lägg där till alla bevis som finns i övrigt (teknisk sådan och vittnen från fångade Al Quaida medlammar), så är det ju lika klart som vilket brottsmål som helst, för vidare läsning kan jag rekomendera "the 9/11 Commission Report".

quote:

Jag tror att det är pentagon som ligger bakom alltihopa, garanterat!

Ye, 23 000 personer jobbar på pentagon, och INGEN har avslöjat något än!

I övrigt kan jag fråga dig vad du har bevis för att dom gjorde det. Om du tycker det inte finns några bevis för att Al Quaida gjorde det, så kan jag meddela en sak till dig: DET FINNS BETYDLIGT MINDRE BEVIS FÖR ATT PENTAGON GJORDE DET, så vitt jag vet finns det faktiskt INGA BEVIS, förutom just då konspiration såsom att "dom hade mest att tjäna på det", men det är knappast något bevis, och det är heller inte ett sant påstående, eftersom dom som tjänat allra mest på 9/11 (och framförallt genom USAs krig efter det) är dom religösa fundamentalisterna i Mellanöstern!

quote:

Originally posted by Vizay ja och nej, det beror p� vem man v�ljer att tro p� rent vittnesm�ssigt. Det finns �gonvittnet som s�ger b�de det ena och det andra. jag väljer att basera min tro d�r p� de bilder som faktiskt finns publicerade samt det faktum att man inte kunnat visa upp en enda crakdel av planet d�r man med s�kerhet kan s�ga att det faktiskt tillh�rde ett plan modell st�rre.

Såvitt jag vet stämmer inte detta, men jag får återkomma till det för jag måste iväg nu.

Och med ögonvittnen, menar du planet som skulle ha "sjutit" ner Flight 93? För det har ju konstaterats att det var ett privatplan och tillhörde ett företag, kommer inte ihåg vad det hette just nu men var iaf inget skummt med det.

Sen alla telefon samtal från den här flighten till anhöriga, var dom fake oxå?

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew Sen alla telefon samtal från den här flighten till anhöriga, var dom fake oxå?

De är ju de som man kan ifrågasätta mest! Har du testat att ringa från ett flygplan någon gång? Det går inte! Det bara klipper hela, hela tiden...

exakt, som dom säger i dokumentären. varför skulle boeing (tror det var boeing dom sa iaf) satsa miljontals dollar på att utveckla ett system som gör att du kan ringa från planen när det redan fungerar?

känns lite motsägelsefullt...


det jag vill komma fram till är att folk är så förbannat blåögda, det är lätt att peka ut "the bad guys" som skyldiga men ingen ifrågasätter "stora snälla farbrorn" i väst. Men farbrorn är inte alltid en snäll gubbe, ibland är han en sliskig pedofil som våldför sig på alla små stackare han får tag på...

quote:

Originally posted by Aendy De �r ju de som man kan ifr�gas�tta mest! Har du testat att ringa fr�n ett flygplan n�gon g�ng? Det g�r inte! Det bara klipper hela, hela tiden...

Har aldrig testat, men har en kompis vars pappa är pilot och han brukar ringa från planet med sin mobil?

Har du testat? :S

quote:

Originally posted by Vizay exakt, som dom s�ger i dokument�ren. varf�r skulle boeing (tror det var boeing dom sa iaf) satsa miljontals dollar p� att utveckla ett system som g�r att du kan ringa fr�n planen n�r det redan fungerar?

1. Jag måste ju bara anta att på 10 000 meters höd är täckningen väldigt dålig (obefintlig?), dock flög ju det här planet på låg höjd. Sen utvecklar dom ju ett system som går det möjligt att dels få täckning, men framförallt att man ska kunna ringa utan att störa flygplanets utrustning.

quote:

det jag vill komma fram till �r att folk �r s� f�rbannat bl��gda, det �r l�tt att peka ut "the bad guys" som skyldiga men ingen ifr�gas�tter "stora sn�lla farbrorn" i v�st. Men farbrorn �r inte alltid en sn�ll gubbe, ibland �r han en sliskig pedofil som v�ldf�r sig p� alla sm� stackare han f�r tag p�...

Känns iof som om det finns fler folk som pekar ut USA för både det ena och det andra än vad det gör folk som pekar ut liknande om andra ännu värre länder och organisationer.

USA är på intet sätt något helgon, snarare tvärtom, men va faen det finns liksom gränser!

H�r �r lite kul info om hur m�nga folk det skulle beh�vas f�r att lyckas f� igenom denna konspiration (och ingen har l�ckt):

http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/massivect.htm

All the people who would have to be involved in order to pull this massive conspiracy off...

-The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history... Some of them like Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neil have come out for less.

-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most if not all of them. It's their LIFE to know. Literally! Yet they don't call for an investigation into the MASS MURDER of over 300 of their brothers... Why? (The twisting of these peoples statements for donations and DVD sales sickens me.) We have uncovered the myth about gag a rule imposed on all fire fighters. Only 9/11 conspiracy sites say this. ONE person who sued Bush for not taking action before the event is ordered by the court not to speak to the media about the case. This is not imposing a gag rule on the whole fire department as some of these sites claim. They are lying to cover up this mass murder by the government or the building owner. Why? They don't even know...

Conspiracy theorist bring up an article in Fire House magazine which says the fire department wanted to stop the steel from being sold in order to test the fire proofing and other non-bomb/controlled demolition related investigations. They twist the articles context to make it seem like the fire fighters questioned the idea that fire brought down the towers.

http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Arti...ay.cfm?Section=
OnlineArticles&SubSe%20ction=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=
25&ARTICLE_ID=131225

http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Arti...OnlineArticles&
SubSection=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=25&ARTICLE_ID=130026

Many of these men and women come from the military yet we are to believe they are so afraid they rather die in the governments next mass murder than come out and expose this.

-The courts for imposing a gag rule [SEE above]

-The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive? None...

-The NYC port Authority who lost personnel. Motive?

-All the people in the pentagon who have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist. They did or said nothing while people supposedly truck in airplane parts to cover the crime. Why? again, no answer...

-The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11 who rather have investigations of the decisions which lead to the terrorist getting away with this. They don't want to waste time investigating the mass murder of their loved ones. Even the Jersey Girls. Why? They say it's the money... [note: Whenever killing someone, pay off the relative. They wont say anything.]

-The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history. It seems no one wants a Nobel prize for journalism. Not only the American media but foreign press like like the BBC and Al Jeezera. Why? No answer here either...

-The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns. These photos support the NIST hypothesis that the sagging trusses lead to the collapse. Some photos also show the core intact shortly after collapse which also not only support the NIST hypothesis but discredits the "Controlled demolition" account.

-Popular Mechanics who debunked these sites are also helping Bush commit the biggest mass murder in history.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/sci...se/1227842.html

-PBS Nova since they created a documentary explaining in detail how and why the buildings fell. None of it said bomb.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/

-Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent org doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy". In fact the hundreds of scientist who signed onto the report are willing to not only lie for Bush but cover up the largest mass murder in American history. Some suggest only a hand full can do the job but that's simply impossible. The team in charge of the computer modeling has to be in sync with the team in structural engineers and so on. There are hundreds involved in this investigation and every team has to work other teams using the same evidence and specifications.

-NY Governor Pataki because he sold steel to from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.

-The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to china before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam. A task which would have taken years and years not to mention millions more. Ironically the republican Mayor Bloomberg could not be involved since he asked the scrap yards not to sell the steel on behalf of the fire fighters.

-EVERY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire. If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? The answer they give is the engineers don't know about Jones work. So in all this time no one has e-mailed Jones's work to any structural engineer?

-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. (Like me) They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation�s history. Why" No clue...

-The CIA

-The FBI

-FEMA

-The American Society of Civil Engineers who have produced peer reviewed papers showing how what Conspiracy Theorist say is impossible is possible.

-NORAD

-The FAA who saw planes which conspiracy theorist never existed.

-The Silverstein Group who they say got together with Bush to blow up the building for insurance money.

-Silverstein's Insurance Company who didn't question the collapse and paid out over 2 billion to Silverstein. Why? Conspiracy Theorist say the insurance company just wants to pass on the bill to the public but they already fought Silverstein in a number of law suits concerning the amount.

-American Airlines (Pentagon)

-United Airlines (Pentagon)

-Logan, Newark and Dulles Airport for losing the planes

-Scientists and engineers who developed the remote control plane technology

-Installers of the remote control devices in the planes (Pentagon)

-Remote controllers of the planes (Pentagon)

-Scientists and engineers who developed the new demolition technology and carried out practical tests and computer models to make sure it would work.

-Installers of the demolitions devices in the three buildings

-People who worked at the company(s) the installers used as cover

-Airphone etc employees who said they got calls from passengers (Pentagon)

-Faux friends and relatives of the faux passengers or just the faux relatives who claim to have been called by their loved ones or just the psyops who fooled relatives into thinking they really were their loved ones. (Pentagon)

-People who detonated the buildings"

-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.

Even conspiracies with a few people are doomed, Look at Enron and Watergate. The more people you involved the more likely the conspiracy will fall apart. The amount of people needed for this conspiracy could fill one of the towers. It's absurd to think this many people could keep a mass murder for Bush secret for this long. Absurd...

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew Har du testat? :S

Från privatplan, kan bara tänka mig hur det är på högre höjder

http://www.911myths.com/911_loose_change_2_guide_1.doc

Ett 146 sidor långt dokument som tar itur med och förklarar i stort sett alla saker filmen tar upp

Har inte läst allt själv, men om ni tror på denna filmen rekomenderar jag er att läsa den, eller någon utav dom miljoner andra sidor på internet som tar itur med dom vanligaste (falska) påståendena om 11 sept...

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew Har inte läst allt själv, men om ni tror på denna filmen rekomenderar jag er att läsa den, eller någon utav dom miljoner andra sidor på internet som tar itur med dom vanligaste (falska) påståendena om 11 sept...

Jag skulle nog rekommendera dig att läsa dokumentet för killen som skrivit det har personliga problem med filmmakarna. Kritiken känns oerhört barnslig och i flera fall har han missuppfattat de kopplingar som filmmakarna syftat på, riktigt pinsamt stundtals.

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