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I've bought vinyl/cds/mp3s, and I like buying vinyl the best. That's it. Does it matter to me if you want to? No.

It should matter to you if I want to buy vinyl or not. Because as the number of people like me continues to grow and eclipses people like you - you will find that production of vinyl will come close to nil. And then you'll be playing Serato, Ableton, CDj's just like the rest of us until whatever new media format comes out.

The days of vinyl are numbered and it's been long overdue.

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Originally posted by Aquadyne Buying and playing vinyl doesn't make you "old school" nor does it make you cool. It simply demonstrates that much like your parents lamenting the demise of a time or item gone by, that you are stuck in the past. Like it was said before, sound is sound, vinyl is not necessarily a "warmer" sound (due to analog) as many would like to claim. It the same sound on different forms of media - anything that you would like to claim otherwise is a minor form of delusion to convince yourself otherwise. Those dinosaurs who are stigmatizing Ableton, CD's and MP3's hurt the evolution of music by insisting that a 95 year old technology is "better" than a 5 year old technology. I still have crates of vinyl at home and have no problems buying and playing vinyl - but lets face it: CD's and Mp3's are not only more portable, cheaper and replaceable (burning a track on a new CD when it cracks or gets scratched) but they are also much more versatile (Final Scratch, Ableton, etc.). Vinyl is a 95 year old technology. Time to embrace the future.

thats true, but wait till someone creates a program that will auto mix tracks and can alter the tracklist depending on the surrounding environment. Then clubs wouldn't even need DJs any more.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 Actually vinyl sales are increasing...not just with EDM but with other genres of music. Vinyl will never die. I miss the days of going to a club and during the break hearing that crackles and pops...such an awesome sound.

I'd like to see some statistics on that.

I am predicting that they are increasing in absolute numbers but that is to be expected as a function of growing exposure of EDM as well as growing population. As a % of market share it's definitely shrinking and that is what is important.

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Originally posted by Aquadyne I'd like to see some statistics on that. I am predicting that they are increasing in absolute numbers but that is to be expected as a function of growing exposure of EDM as well as growing population. As a % of market share it's definitely shrinking and that is what is important.

There is no way to track Digital Sales, so companies could easily put up fake numbers.

As previously mentioned on TA i forget who it was on Somatic Sense but the producer said that almost all the labels profit was from Vinyl.

That is why I would like to see some statistics before accepting as truth someone's claim that vinyl sales are increasing.

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As previously mentioned on TA i forget who it was on Somatic Sense but the producer said that almost all the labels profit was from Vinyl.

When you think about the profit margin from an MP3 track and a vinyl, does that really surprise you?

When you think about the ease through which MP3 tracks and CD's could be duplicated for someone else, does that really surprise you?

A label's profit margins vis-a-vis vinyl/mp3 means absolutely squat about the survivability of either genre in this scenario.


Let me demonstrate a very extreme but nonetheless functioning example.

I can buy 1 track from beatport for $1.49 and disseminate it through the internet resulting in at least 1,000,000+ copies.

Or 1,000,000 people can buy 1,000,000 vinyls of the same track at $7.99 a piece (quite a low price which doesn't even factor in shipping).

Here's the end result: 1,000,000 tracks in people's hands for $1.49
or 1,000,000 tracks in people's hands for $7,990,000.

This is why your example of Somatic Sense is flawed.

quote:

Originally posted by Aquadyne I'd like to see some statistics on that. I am predicting that they are increasing in absolute numbers but that is to be expected as a function of growing exposure of EDM as well as growing population. As a % of market share it's definitely shrinking and that is what is important.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/artic...20/ai_n16025264

http://www.vinylrecords.co.uk/2005/...g-comeback.html

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/12097

I see that you're still having some problems with the concept of "market share"

http://www.sims.berkeley.edu:8000/r...003/optical.htm

quote:

RECORDINGS ON VINYL The vinyl disc (or LP) is the oldest sound recording medium. According to the statistics of the Syndicat National de l'Edition Phonographique (2001), the stock of vinyl discs since 1984 can be estimated to be more than 4.6 billion units. In recent years, other sound recording formats such as the CD have largely replaced vinyl; the market share of vinyl among all sound recordings represents 0.36%?(13.5 million units annually out of 3.7 billion units worldwide). If we suppose that the average duration of a vinyl disc is only 30 minutes, the annual flow of content on vinyl discs is thus equivalent to 34,290 TB.

ZERO POINT THREE SIX MARKET SHARE.


As for this artcile that you posted: http://www.vinylrecords.co.uk/2005/...g-comeback.html

This article claims an overall rise in sale of vinyl by 87.3 % in one quarter. However, it is a misleading lie. Checking the source at British Phonographic Institute from which the source was quoted there is indeed an 87.3% rise but ONLY IN 7 INCH VINYL TRACK SINGLES, NOT IN THE ENTIRE VINYL INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE.

Furthermore, the jump in sales that is responsible is from
2004 | 154,216

2005 | 288,780

In the same quarter. 288,780 sold 7 INCH VINYL SINGLES on which you base your argument.

Here's the change in digital downloads for the same quarter

Digital Singles / Single Track Downloads


2004 | 659,377

2005 | 5,562,638

% Change | 743.6%

MARKET SHARE.

Finally, here are the 20 top selling vinyl 7 inch singles from BPI themselves:

quote:

The Vinyl Top 20; 12 months ending March 31 2005 1 The Number Of The Beast - Iron Maiden (EMI Records) 2 Killamangiro - Babyshambles (Rough Trade) 3 Can�t Stand Me Now - The Libertines (Rough Trade) 4 Oh My God - Kaiser Chiefs (B Unique) 5 Matinee - Franz Ferdinand (Domino Recordings) 6 Wonderful - Brian Wilson (Atlantic Records) 7 An Honest Mistake - The Bravery (Polydor) 8 What Became Of The Likely Lads - The Libertines (Rough Trade) 9 Boulevard Of Broken Dreams - Green Day (Warner Bros) 10 American Idiot - Green Day (Warner Bros) 11 For Lovers - Wolfman ft Pete Doherty (Rough Trade) 12 The Bottle - Paul Weller (V2 Music) 13 Jolene: Live Under Blackpool Lights - White Stripes (XL Recordings) 14 5 Colours In Her Hair - McFly (Universal Island) 15 You�ll Come Round - Status Quo (UMTV) 16 Hounds Of Love - Futureheads (Warner Bros) 17 So Here We Are/Positive Tension - Bloc Party (Wichita Recordings) 18 Black and White Town - Doves (EMI Records) 19 Michael - Franz Ferdinand (Domino Recordings) 20 Irish Blood, English Heart - Morrissey (Sanctuary)

Please point out a single EDM track to me. The fact that vinyl is experiencing a minor resurgence still means nothing to DJ's as hardly any of it is translating to DJ's escalating their purchase of vinyl.

haha what?! did Iron Maiden really top the list?! Thats fucked up.

And theres nothing wrong w/ prefering something that isn't technologically superior.

When I go to the amusement park I always love the oldest rollercoasters best. Sure they dont' go as fast, go upside down or whatever, but I find it more fun to feel some of the bumps in the track, and I love that clank clank clank as you go up the ramp. Its more fun when you don't feel as tucked in like you do on the newer ones. I hope they keep building wooden rollercoasters in the future even though the technology has been upgraded. I feel the same way about vinyls.

FLAC FTW!!

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Can't beat the plastic. Mp3 shouldn't even be an option.

+1 .. vinyl beats it all. nostalgic crackles and pops, the best sound quality possible (pure sinusoidal paths/contours can never be beaten by approximated sinusoidals like 320 kbps) ... and the way of usage is far better than cdj's, imo ... though ableton adds a new window to mixing too

quote:

Originally posted by Aquadyne Finally, here are the 20 top selling vinyl 7 inch singles from BPI themselves: Please point out a single EDM track to me. The fact that vinyl is experiencing a minor resurgence still means nothing to DJ's as hardly any of it is translating to DJ's escalating their purchase of vinyl.

How many 7" EDM singles are there

quote:

haha what?! did Iron Maiden really top the list?! Thats fucked up.

Yeah, keep in mind though that is from Q1 2005. However, I doubt those purchasing patterns have greatly changed by Q1 2006.

At a global market share of 0.36% - vinyl has just about as long to live as a Shiite Iraqi in Samarra.

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Originally posted by sandstorm03 How many 7" EDM singles are there

I think his point is that any rise is in 7" singles rather than 12" EDM singles.

My point was that a poster earlier posted a link to an article with "statistics" that I asked for.

The article quoted BPI and point blank claimed that there was a rise of 87.3% in vinyl sales in Q2 of 2005. It didn't attempt to specify which kind of vinyl sales, by default it implied all vinyl. Having the article linked from a website with a domain of www.vinylrecords.co.uk I grew a tad suspicious and decided to verify just how twisted that information was.

That 87.3% jump was ONLY in sales of 7 inch singles vinyls in one quarter. Yes, 87% looks very impressive. So I decided to see on what scale of purchasing that percentage was achieved. Because if a store sells 1 record in Q1 2005 and then sells 2 records in Q2 of 2005 then technically it has achieved a 100% jump in sales. When you look at absolute numbers however, that number in fact is pathetic. Anyways, that 87.3% jump in 7 inch singles vinyl sales was achieved on sales of 154,216 in Q2 of 2004 and a jump to 288,780 in Q2 of 2005. Hardly anything to jump up and down about.

That's how information gets manipulated.

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Originally posted by ThaMaestro +1 .. vinyl beats it all. nostalgic crackles and pops, the best sound quality possible (pure sinusoidal paths/contours can never be beaten by approximated sinusoidals like 320 kbps)

I don't know, from a somewhat scientific point of view I think you have to add all the squares of the difference between 'the infinite quality version' and what you're trying to assess; at every sample point; to check what's best. And one crackle is goint to make a relatively huge contribution there.
I hate noise.

quote:

It should matter to you if I want to buy vinyl or not. Because as the number of people like me continues to grow and eclipses people like you - you will find that production of vinyl will come close to nil. And then you'll be playing Serato, Ableton, CDj's just like the rest of us until whatever new media format comes out.

Dude, chill out. I use ableton and buy mp3s as well. It's only that I like buying vinyl better. Did you even read what I wrote or you too concerned about "people like [you]"?

Oh, sorry if I came off like that.

I didn't mean to.

I am a vinyl man through and through... mixing CD's shits me to tears and mp3's belong on a fucking ipod not a dj booth.

Anyway people have been saying vinyl is dieing for years... I really do not think it will any time soon... Turntable sales are still as good as ever and as it was just reported so are vinyl sales...

So I am gonna keep on buying my vinyls... I guess I must take good care of mine... I don't really get many crackles or pops.

Also Brisky love the store man... It's basically one of the only online vinyl stores that I continually keep going back too...

quote:

Originally posted by stevieboy32808 All this and more right here ---><--- It's ashame you guys still don't get the difference between analog and digital. Remember most EDM music before going through the pressing process whether it'd be cd or vinyl must come from a master source and that happens to be a DAT tape. From that very DAT tape is where the CDs or vinyls are recorded from. Both sound exactly the same. This is true for most EDM records recorded after 1990. Before that era most vinyl was recorded from a reel to reel tape which is an analog recording source. This is where the the argument begins. Analog vs. Digital, not vinyl vs. cd since they both come from the same source which is the DAT tape I was talking about earlier.

Your quite correct, espesh theses days. Everything is digital at one stage or another, so all your getting on vinyl is an inferior version of the track on CD.

After 100 plays a Vinyl Record cannot reproduce sounds over 10 000hz due to needle wear on the grooves.

I used to love vinyl and I do miss getting records delivered in the mail, but downloads are the future...

The allure of vinyl, for me, is almost entirely related to nostalgia for an era I didn't live in. There's an... avuncular quality to vinyls that no other media can provide. An intimacy, if you will. But their draw ends there for me.

Vinyls have a lot of problems for me. There is no stereo bass, and no good 5.1 encoding exists. Not to mention price, wear and portability. Digital media won't skip if there is stereo panned bass, and they can all be adapted to encode 5.1. Mp3s are cheap, last as long as your harddrive, and longer if you back them up, and you can take them anywhere. Other audio filetypes are the same. The quality argument for vinyl is bunk, though. No human being can percieve the difference between a hi-fi audio file and vinyl, aside from the fact that vinyls have artifacts of wear, aging and dirtiness (which most afficionados attribute to "warmth." Psh.

quote:

Originally posted by ThaMaestro +1 .. vinyl beats it all. nostalgic crackles and pops, the best sound quality possible (pure sinusoidal paths/contours can never be beaten by approximated sinusoidals like 320 kbps) ... and the way of usage is far better than cdj's, imo ... though ableton adds a new window to mixing too

First of all, "nostalgic crackles and pops" are a sign of the inherent flaw in vinyl: it wears. It gets old, and gets dirty. It develops cracks (the source of that popping you love), and it looses a few micrometers of amplitude each time that stylus passes over. Vinyl has a lifespan. Barring file corruption, mp3s don't.

Furthermore, you are grossly simplifying the process by which mp3 encodes music. Mp3s first remove the aspects of the music that you won't be able to hear anyway. Get this: your ears lie to you. They present you with incomplete data on sound, and your brain fills in the holes with what it thinks would be there. Mp3s use the known algorithms associated with this phenomenon (known as psychoacoustics) to dictate what parts of the sound are lost. At 320 kbps, they really only need to cut stuff that you'd have to be a bat to hear in the first place.

The argument that digital media reduces the quality grows thinner each year, as digital audio grows more and more high fidelity.

I think legal Mp3 are the future because the younger generation is finding it very impractical and expensive to invest in old tecnology, its too risky. Furthermore aside from internet sales vinly is hard to come by in parts of te world. You can buy a Mp3 burn to cd Or Abelton etc and get very good quality. I have personallyu tested cd vs mp3 320 and find it indistinguishable.

Comments

Hi Everyone,

Thanks a lot for all of your feedback, there were some solid points made there and I am suprised how many of you guys still feel so strongly about vinyl.....

MP3's are the future of music without a shadow of doubt, but I love vinyl as my medium of choice.

A point raised asking me about illegal downloads, I think everyone pretty much knows the answer!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks all for your time and i have an announcement to make later in the week, so I will let you know when i can..............

Thanks again Brisky

For me anyway, I would go for CDs or downloads. But the downloads have to be at least 320kbps MP3 or lossless WAV/FLAC.

If I buy a CD I inevitably rip it to the computer.

Download stores are just so much more convenient and cheaper than anything else.

Re: Comments

quote:

Originally posted by Brisky@Chemical MP3's are the future of music without a shadow of doubt

As internet connections speed up, and flash-banks takes over optical data carriers and HDD's (flash goes 2GB -> 4GB -> 8GB -> 16GB, see where I'm going with this exponential thingy; not to mention speed) mp3 will go down against WAV/FLAC or whatever even higher quality they come up with imo.

Re: Re: Comments

quote:

Originally posted by Belgian Bonzai As internet connections speed up, and flash-banks takes over optical data carriers and HDD's (flash goes 2GB -> 4GB -> 8GB -> 16GB, see where I'm going with this exponential thingy; not to mention speed) mp3 will go down against WAV/FLAC or whatever even higher quality they come up with imo.

im sure by typing MP3 he meant, digital formats

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