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-- How did you get your start in EDM?
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i started with old synths in the late eighties. korg and yahamas were my weapons of choice up to the late eighties and then early 90s.
in about 94 or 5 i sold my hardware because trance was dead. i then went back to classical music and onward to jazz.
redug the rock/numetal thing in the mid 90s.
then around there got into some dos trackers. then the early incarnations of Buzz.
loved buzz. still do.
trackers rule!
then did rebirth.
then reason.
then the vst thing.
now i bought fl studio in january, and upgraded this weekend to the xxl edition.
it's really fantastic and professional. reason is fine, but it's proprietary lock hampers creativity. (you can only use their subtractive synth etc. cubase, fl studio, etc you can use vst technology. which means reaktor, z3ta, virus, novation, the classic synths of edm! if you can't sound good using fl studio, reaktor, virus and digital effects, like say richie hawtin, sasha, and bt use (reaktor, virus, everything respectively) then you suck. and reason's plug and play toy isn't going to help you. that said reason is great too. and many great pros have made and still make music with reason. it's of course the artist not the tool. a great guitarist like clapton can make a store yamaha sing, where that irritating guy you know who plays guitar (we all do) can play an antique martin and still irritate.
of course james holden still likes his buzz at times
i think buzz is all you need. but if you have fl studio already you are good to go.
i think you are reading waaaaaaay too much. a common engineer's problem. art is not in a book. if it were, why wouldn't other people find and read those books and live the good life they dream of? do you really underestimate the rest of us and our ambitions that much as to assume that we (who don't even have such a good job as you) wouldn't read such guidebooks (if they existed) and fulfill the dreams we hang our survival and fulfillment upon? It therefore is illogical for you to expect to read didactic material and fulfill creative aims.
i like a quote from piston's harmony. it is directed to students who complain that harmony studies seem to hurt their creativity and music.
"Theory must follow practice, rarely preceding it except by chance. We must realize that musical theory is not a set of directions for composing music. It is rather the collected and systematized deductions gathered by observing the practice of composers over a long time, and it attempts to set forth what is or has been their common practice. It tells not how music will be written in the future, but how music has been written in the past.

On the other hand, the person gifted for creative musical composition is taking a serious risk in assuming that his genius is great enough to get along without a deep knowledge of the common practice of composers. Mastery of the technical or theorectical aspects of music should be carried out by him as a life's work, running parallel to his creative activity but quite separate from it."

don't you have enough technical manuals to read at work? why don't you try writing music that moves you?

How i got started well i got started a while ago


well i use to dj when i was in high school


then

i guess my love and admiration became of life when i use to hang at the underground clubs in the city like sound factory ,exit,never been to the tunnel ,or limelight but i been to a few others,

then from there i just fell in love with well at that time progressive house/dream house was popular (or anthem house)

but i mainly fell in love with the deep house,techno and the uplifting hypnotic trance that would lift you up and make you happy
and youd feel sad when you left the club cause the music would stop playing.


some of my favorite songs back then were follow me ,and Zombie Nation
id go crazy when those songs
(and that song i dont remeber the name but i remeber the chant

and it was "do it again " do it again" )would start playing of course they always had the long version in the club.


so then got techno ejay and rave ejay

and dance ejay but got rid of them fast because yo ucould not really edit or alter the sounds



then rebirth


then after that i just did some research on the net and got reason and a host of soft synths and taught my self music theory.

becuse i wanted to have my own sound.



and the rest was history

my favorite to produce is Techno ,and psych,and of course trance
dark hard trance because i always had trouble making an uplifting tune i guess id rather stick to my strengths and make dark hard trance.


one thing i should ad is i did not wake up one morning and say i want to start writing edm i was allready musically enclined.

Majutsu, you touched on some interesting points I felt compelled to respond to....

quote:

Originally posted by Majutsu now i bought fl studio in january, and upgraded this weekend to the xxl edition. it's really fantastic and professional. reason is fine, but it's proprietary lock hampers creativity. (you can only use their subtractive synth etc. cubase, fl studio, etc you can use vst technology. which means reaktor, z3ta, virus, novation, the classic synths of edm! if you can't sound good using fl studio, reaktor, virus and digital effects, like say richie hawtin, sasha, and bt use (reaktor, virus, everything respectively) then you suck.

As far as I can tell, FL Studio is a great set up, I havn't even began to explore all of it's capabillities.
Basically what I've been doing is the same thing I did when I started learning guitar... try to learn how to make the sounds of my favorite artists, basically mimicking their music or as close as I can get to it, hence the reason I started diving into all of these articles and books, trying to learn how the pros (by pros I mean people who get paid to make the music) do what they do.

quote:

Originally posted by Majutsu i think you are reading waaaaaaay too much. a common engineer's problem. art is not in a book. if it were, why wouldn't other people find and read those books and live the good life they dream of?

Agreed, this is why I have been questioning my approach lately, I think I'm making it more and more stale by doing the same thing I'm required to do with engineering...analyze, and over analyze.
In all honesty, I took up music as an outlet for creative expression, basically to let the creative side of my brain have a chance to speak.
This is the reason for this thread, I wanted to know how all of you people approach this art.

quote:

Originally posted by Majutsu do you really underestimate the rest of us and our ambitions that much as to assume that we (who don't even have such a good job as you) wouldn't read such guidebooks (if they existed) and fulfill the dreams we hang our survival and fulfillment upon?

Underestimate? Not at all! In fact the opposite!

Believe it or not, I have been lurking around this message board for quite a while now and I've listened to alot of the music people post here as well as in their links, I've gone to their personal websites and listened in, etc etc etc
That's primarily why I'm posing this question here, in my opinion there's some seriously talented people who post here at TA.com, therefore it would be fair to assume that I do in fact look up to a great deal of the people here and aspire to produce music like the music I've heard here.
I may have an excellent day job (that I made great sacrifices to reach that goal and put an enormous amount of effort into) but that doesn't put me above anybody else in my opinion and that surely doesn't make me any better of a musician, or any more intelligent of a person.
I had a goal to become an engineer out of highschool, I worked hard and applied myself to achieve that goal, that doesn't make me any better of a person however.
Honestly, I don't think I could ever write music for a living, it's not that I wouldn't want to it just seems like way too much pressure for putting food on the table at the end of the day.
I have an enormous amount of respect for anyone who has the fortitude to produce music as a profession.
I just enjoy playing and writing music for my own entertainment.
The only reason I brought up my career field was in response to someone telling me I should go work for K Mart if I find the tediums of mixing and mastering boring.
I also explained that I don't find it boring but I'd rather be writing the music I hear in my head, not taking the music I hear in my head and turning it into a scientific theorem or mathematical equation.

BTW, the book I've been reading lately is The Dance Music Manual by Rick Snoman.

I appreciate all of your advice, and everyone else's here, it is very intuitive.

quote:

After reading article upon article and book upon book about the technical side of making good music I've found it really kind of takes the 'fun' out of making music when concentrating on these aspects. I have shitloads of ideas for songs and music in general but it seems to get ruined or I lose interest when I have to get scientific about it. Is this a typical feeling that you all have been through or did you find this learning curve interesting and entertaining?

I actually think the learning part of it is most of the fun. But then, since I started producing 2 years ago, I have become a horrendous geek that prefers building sounds on weekends instead of doing you know...social stuff

Work colleagues would always ask me 'so what did you get up to on the weekend?' and I'd be like 'uhhhhh...'

I never actually mention it because the secret truth is just too geeky to tell anyone but an example would be... reading books on synthesizing FIRs on DSP, reading up about the mathematics behind Nyquist plots and making bleepy noises on a computer.

Am I just perverse for thinking all of this shit is incredibly interesting? Also, when you learn something new, I tend to try to put it into practical application and if I make a rocking sound out of it, or improve my mixes because of it - I'm just so chuffed

I played Descent I & II, and was hooked on industrial/electronic music from then on.

Pretty simple.

How did you get your start in EDM?


I didn't, EDM got started in me.

in 1987 i bought my first yamaha psr-xxx -keyboard and started to play around with that. i didn't really manage to get a decent "techno"-sound out of it tho later followed some other stuff (like an akai s900, technox a borrowed nordlead) but the real possibilities came two or three years ago for me with software.

quote:

Originally posted by Thois Don't blame the software, blame yourself

No, the actual sound of the Fruity Loops software isn't great, it's really bad. I haven't tried rewiring it into another audio angine, as that may solve the problem, but by itself it sounds like a toy.

I'm a professional mastering engineer, with 12 years experience, trust me, Fruity Loops sound sux. If you compare it to any other software like Cubase, Ableton, Reason, Logic Audio, Sonar or even Project 5, you'll see what I mean. The quality of the sound is inferior. Not the musical ability, you can do anything on it, the sound quality. If you think I'm bullshitting you, ask any professional (not a professional salesman, lol).

Woh some interesting stories!


For me it went like this:


Age 13 > 1998 > Listened to pete tong essential summer 98 - got hooked on Trance/House/Dance/DnB for ever ! (no honestly thats all i listen to now) Before I heard this album all I knew was that I prefferd tracks on the radio without vocals for some reason.(not that these days I mind them at all, it was probably the fact i hadnt heard electronic music before then).


Age 16 > 2001 > Messed with Dance ejay + Magix Music Studio - Tried to remix current songs (badly) and making own songs (badly) with absolutley no music knowledge.

Age 19 > 2004 > After not touching the music prod for a while ,the fact I had been listening to this music for a long time now (buying it,clubbing to it etc) and I was in to computers as a career made me feel frustrated that I hadnt carried on with producing ealier so I started collecting music sequencers + Vst software and generally reading about it.

> Age 21 > Present Day > I am now in "full production" with reason and have just bought some CDJ800 MK2's. After all those years of listening to the dance scene I feel the pull to produce/play dance music even stronger now and want to get more proffessional about it.

However I am worried about the limits of reason coupled with my lack of knowledge with other sequencers and am considering getting in to either Cubase or FL Studio (from reading comments on TA and from fellow ammature music producers).

I wont stop until I get a track released either !

Hmmm, i might as well bring some light into this Topic hehe.

Anyway, in short.

Started Dj'ing at the age of 14, got my hands on an Roland MC303 and found it very fun to play around with sounds.

Got my self a copy of some old sequencer (cant remebmer the name), after a couple of years i got my hand on Propellerheads Rebirth (I was a Acid junkie back then) Haha.. and an classic Roland Juno.

Then Reason 1.0 / 2.5 / 3.0, then Cubase, Then Ableton Live......Today Ableton Live, Cus it has the best "sound" ....just kidding.. just read what some idiot wrote.

For me trance music is an exploration of sound, which i love, and i think i speak for many hear when i say that Rank 1 - Airwave, was one reason my tracks towards melodic trance began, mmmm that supersaw (High Adrenaline now).

Didnt get that short, but you gotta love sounds to be a producer, in all styles, u just gotta find your own.

Cheers
C

I got into Trance and EDM when i was 5 years old (im currently 16)

i learnt to play piano/keyboard at 9, which is the same time i started using ejay (dont shoot me! :P) i used that for fun for about 6 months, then got Reason, then live 5, and all my VST's. then i got serious about the whole thing, and now i study music technology in college and i am going to have my first CD release this June

im also getting my first hardware synth for my birthday (3rd June, this Saturday) i should be getting a microkorg (purely because ive used them at college and they rock )

and that's my musical life story.

Actually, eJay's samples are great, as long as u don't use them with eJay software, chuck them in any decent software and they rock!

hmmm.. ok!

quote:

Originally posted by jahnlay Actually, eJay's samples are great, as long as u don't use them with eJay software, chuck them in any decent software and they rock!

Nonsense mate. Ejay is the pinnicle of software tracking and currently is the only way to channel the voices of angels into a 192 kbps mp3.

I. Shit. You. Not.

quote:

Originally posted by DJFreaq I played Descent I & II, and was hooked on industrial/electronic music from then on. Pretty simple.

Duuuuuuuude! I forgot all about that... That was one of my finest memories of .mid music in video game history.

Care to share your favorite tracks?

quote:

Originally posted by Four_On_Four-er Duuuuuuuude! I forgot all about that... That was one of my finest memories of .mid music in video game history. Care to share your favorite tracks?

Lol. I gotta dig it up first. But the nice thing about Decent 2 was the actual audio tracks from Ogre/Skinny Puppy.

That was the tits. Damnit, now im really mad i threw away all my old macintosh games last weekend.

quote:

Originally posted by jahnlay No, the actual sound of the Fruity Loops software isn't great, it's really bad. I haven't tried rewiring it into another audio angine, as that may solve the problem, but by itself it sounds like a toy. I'm a professional mastering engineer, with 12 years experience, trust me, Fruity Loops sound sux. If you compare it to any other software like Cubase, Ableton, Reason, Logic Audio, Sonar or even Project 5, you'll see what I mean. The quality of the sound is inferior. Not the musical ability, you can do anything on it, the sound quality. If you think I'm bullshitting you, ask any professional (not a professional salesman, lol).

Dont use the FL stock synths

quote:

Originally posted by jahnlay No, the actual sound of the Fruity Loops software isn't great, it's really bad. I haven't tried rewiring it into another audio angine, as that may solve the problem, but by itself it sounds like a toy. I'm a professional mastering engineer, with 12 years experience, trust me, Fruity Loops sound sux. If you compare it to any other software like Cubase, Ableton, Reason, Logic Audio, Sonar or even Project 5, you'll see what I mean. The quality of the sound is inferior. Not the musical ability, you can do anything on it, the sound quality. If you think I'm bullshitting you, ask any professional (not a professional salesman, lol).

Actually, I blame the fact that it's affordable. Most people investing $150.00 on competend sequencing software is not going to use it so a "professional" level (myself included).

That's why it sounds plastic. Granted, I do not like much of the timbre's from the 3xOSC (the TS-404 has some redeemable sounds to me). Otherwise, the worlkflow is faster with some VSTs that I can lazily slap on there and twiddle briefly.

I'm not jumping to conclussions here. Are you dismissing the synths that come with FL (3xosc, and TS) or the audio sequencer itself.

THe mp3 encoder uses LAME (I think), and that seems competent enough for me.

there are many pro users of fl studio
here is a page with interviews from several 'power users' of different genres.
http://www.e-officedirect.com/FLStu...ts/SUB_119.html
You might want to pay particular attention to matthew dear and mike oldfield. These are very big names. Deadmau5 and Toby Emerson share actual fl tracks to go over, which is a great gift, to dissect a pro track. They are great educational tools for seeing how to construct a track. Hats off to those two guys for being so cool.
everyone of these programs, reason, protools, fl studio, etc has a pro user somewhere. it's the artist or producer's talent that makes the tool, not vice versa.
that being said, i have both, and reason is much easier to start with. all those usable presets and intuitive gui are appealing. but it gets old after a while, and everyone's stuff sounds the same. i am just beginning to understand the power of the fl studio processing. those are some very bright sound engineers. they didn't really have trance composition in mind per se though. they were thinking of a protools sort of device. at $349 you can't really get non-plastic sounds to pop out easily unless your knowledgable about sound design. since these programs are really just using the sound chip in your computer and the cpu, it's all the same at some level. you could use free c-sound like the universities do and get any sound you want. . .
but if you already own fl studio, like the thread starter does, blowing more money on reason is not going to help his creative dilemma. in fact, he could download the reason demo and see what he thinks. but i'm sure he'll find the problem is most likely on an artistic level. (like mine.)

I began producing when I was eating rice krispies and I realized that the rice was popping, i then proceded to bang my spoon against the bowl ina tribal beat, and that's how Sander Van Doorn was born

My interest in EDM goes back a little ways...

Does anyone here remember the band Marrs? They had a single titled Pump Up The Volume.
I heard that song for the first time when I was a kid and I really liked it, unfortunately there wasn't much electronic music being produced during that time or at least any that was readily available or getting any exposure so I eventually started listening to heavy metal and picked up guitar.
I also took piano lessons in school so I was taught the basics like chord structures, scales etc, we had a piano at home I would practice on but the music I was practicing really had no relation to electronic music.
As I grew up I continued my studies in guitar aspiring to be the next Edward Vanhalen (like every other kid that played guitar back than), anybody who knows the heavy metal community knows that electronic music is considered 'taboo' by most metal musicians so although I continued listening to the electronic music scene that was about the extent of my ventures with it.
I played in a few bands and I remember one of the bands I joined had a keyboardist, I remember he had a Korg Poly 800, whenever he wasn't at rehearsal I would sit down and plink on it while we weren't practicing.
He eventually sold me that keyboard when he wanted to upgrade and I spent a fair amount of time writing riffs on it, but again, it was mostly heavy metal type stuff.
Eventually as time progressed I lost most of my interest in electronic music due to the fact that alot of the music was starting to sound alike and very 'manufactured', not to mention it was next to impossible to find anyone where I was living that was interested in it.

Fast forward to about 3 years ago, while browsing around in a record store I came across a 3 cd pack labelled Trance Anthems by Deca Dance, I had no idea what Trance even was but on a whim, mainly out of curiosity, I bought it and took it home for a listen.

Upon hearing Energy 52's Cafe Del Mar and Alex D'elia's Isn't Life Wonderful I was hooked again, just like when I heard Marrs Needs Women when I was a kid.
I had to know more about how this music was being produced, what instruments were being used etc etc.
I spent alot of time reading and alot of time at the record store buying up anything I could find with the word Trance on it.
At the same time I purchased a couple of synths, I already had a digital multitracker for my guitar music, I started reading about MIDI and basically figuring it all out.
I ended up with a Yamaha DJX, Yamaha Motif, Roland MC 303, Mackie mixing console and lots of cables hahaha.
I stayed away from software sequencing until recently here primarily because being a guitar player I thought purists most likely wouldn't use a computer to make their music, I figured they'd do it all the hard way with multitrackers and synthesizers.
The more I read about software sequencing and software studios the more it became apparent to me that computer based sequencing was the logical way to go.

I understand trance music and I understand the basic song structures, I've written a couple of pieces that I'm not all that proud of, I know this is definitely a work in progress and that it takes time to get a firm understanding of all of the elements that go into making good music in any genre.

On a funny note, although I still listen to metal from time to time, I find myself listening to EDM much more.
Heavy metal just seems so angry and the music thats being produced in that genre today leaves a little bit to be desired in my opinion.
Electronic music is much more fluid I think, I'm much more entertained by trance type music.

Well, that's my story.

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